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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
| Im sorry ....but this game is bad |
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Ive tried playing this game for weeks.
On the one hand its just like I thought it would be. Maybe even better.... Dungeons and dragons ... in jagged alliance style combat. Good graphics.
But the crpg itself is almost the worst thing ever. As I recall from years ago... this was actually the worst pen and paper module available. There was sort of an UN module called the village of homlet, and a boring module called temple of elemental evil.
Later D and D hired much better writers.
But to tell you the truth.... Im starting to think translation of a pen and paper module into a crpg is just a bad idea in itself.
There are two mediums, the computer screen, and the room filled with nerds and caffeine. They have things in common but they have things that have to be different also.
Even the gold box games, they made large compromises:
You dont actually want to walk into each house and talk to each person in the town..... eg -Theres a choice of five things going on in this town pick what you want to do.
When combat is a sure thing hit auto combat go grab something to eat and when you come back the monsters will be dead.
There are certain ways a computer game has to be changed to prevent it from being... um.... mind numbingly tedious. This was discovered somewhere around ultima 3.
Anyhow on the one hand I have to be honest. I have not enjoyed the game. I have to give it about 6/10. And Im not even sure why Ibecause I liked lionheart more.
But the game engine itself I might give 9/10. I would love to play baldurs gate with this. Some sort of REAL CRPG. even icewind dale 2. This game is just a collection of rooms with monsters in them. Its cool enough for fighting things... but its content is just so bad. Worse than Ive even seen any of the reviewers at rpgdot relate.
I dont even care about most of the bugs. Thats fine, you cant craft everything. The quests... well Im glad they were bugged, it made my decision to try and skip them all out of boredom and go straight to the temple and fight things until i was level ten make more sense. |
Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:49 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
You know, I sort of agree with you. I finished most of the second level a couple of weeks ago, strolled down to the third level for a quick look and can't find the motivation to continue. Just killing monsters has never appealed to me and I actually found Geneforge 2 more fun to play. I finished the demo which I began when I stopped playing Temple. Sure, it's MUCH better than PoR2, but I still find myself wanting to swing the camera around and see behind things ala NWN. It's an OK game, but nothing to rave about.
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:48 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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If I had been told to write a review on the game's content alone, it probably would have gotten a 20% or so.
It's everything put together that made it one of the funnest games I've ever played. Not best, but funnest. Since fun factor is worth 45% of our game rating percentage, it is HIGHLY subjective.
I loved TOEE. Truly. Normally I hate dungeon hacks but this one was just too much fun with too many branching dialogue options and engine goodness to pass up.
As usual, your mileage may vary. You have nothing to be sorry for... if it's a bad game for you, it's a bad game for you.
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"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:37 pm |
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JDR13
Magister of the Light
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 376
Location: Michigan, United States |
I have to admit that I didn't like the game at first either. I sure am glad I gave it a chance though, It's a great game. I'm tired of everyone talking about how bad the content and storyline are. The story isn't bad at all. The problem is that everyone wants to compare it to games like Baldurs Gate. Troika gave us exactly what they promised, a combat heavy dungeon crawl. After the patch I would rate this game at least a 8\10. |
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:23 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
6/10, without the bugs maybe 6.5/10.
Good things IMHO:
Turn based combat
D&D 3.5 rules
Better NPC dialogues
Mostly twisting side quests
Bad things IMHO:
D&D 3.5 rules
Horrible item/inventory system
Very doll main story (Is there any???, Explore TOEE???)
Non immersive game world (Far to small characters).
Incredible repetetive TOEE (Tower)
Way to short a game (20-30 Hours), and no I'm not inspired to play it again!
Maximum 10 levels character creation.
Tons of bugs, even after the patch.
Area borders are strange, and the PC locks up for a few seconds if you click on the shadow area because characters try to find a path to a non eksistent area.
Very tedious trace backs from TOEE.
IWD2 was a tad better on most points than TOEE.
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Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:35 am |
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JDR13
Magister of the Light
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 376
Location: Michigan, United States |
quote:
Originally posted by Michael C
6/10, without the bugs maybe 6.5/10.
Good things IMHO:
Turn based combat
D&D 3.5 rules
Better NPC dialogues
Mostly twisting side quests
Bad things IMHO:
D&D 3.5 rules
Horrible item/inventory system
Very doll main story (Is there any???, Explore TOEE???)
Non immersive game world (Far to small characters).
Incredible repetetive TOEE (Tower)
Way to short a game (20-30 Hours), and no I'm not inspired to play it again!
Maximum 10 levels character creation.
Tons of bugs, even after the patch.
Area borders are strange, and the PC locks up for a few seconds if you click on the shadow area because characters try to find a path to a non eksistent area.
Very tedious trace backs from TOEE.
IWD2 was a tad better on most points than TOEE.
D&D 3.5 bad?.... Compared to what? 2.0 and 3.0? No way.
What was horrible about the inventory? It wasn't the best system but it certainly wasn't horrible.
Very dull story? Not at all. The developers gave us a combat heavy dungeon crawl, just like they promised. Nobody ever said it was going to have an epic script like Baldurs Gate or Planescape Torment.
I found the game world to be very immersive. It was nice to have a change from the Forgotten Realms setting. The characters were kind of small at 1024x768. I played the game at 800x600.
Incredibly repetetive?!? Every floor was distinctively different.
Way too short? That's just an opinion. I like the fact that not every role-playing game is 60+ hours long.
Maximum 10 levels for characters? Yes, that's exactly how it was supposed to be. Remember, TOEE was based off an old pen&paper module. The developers had to stay within certain guidelines. I didn't hear anyone bitching about Baldurs Gate maxing out at 7th-8th level.
Tons of bugs after the patch? Please name some. I haven't encountered a single one. (Unless you count the way NPC'S loot)
As far as IWD2 being better, Iwould have to say it's a close call. I really enjoyed IWD2 . Like I said though, after all the other D&D games being set in the Forgotton Realms universe, It was nice to have a change of pace. |
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Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:27 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
quote:
Originally posted by JDR13
1. D&D 3.5 bad?.... Compared to what? 2.0 and 3.0? No way.
2. What was horrible about the inventory? It wasn't the best system but it certainly wasn't horrible.
3. Very dull story? Not at all. The developers gave us a combat heavy dungeon crawl, just like they promised. Nobody ever said it was going to have an epic script like Baldurs Gate or Planescape Torment.
4. I found the game world to be very immersive. It was nice to have a change from the Forgotten Realms setting. The characters were kind of small at 1024x768. I played the game at 800x600.
5. Incredibly repetetive?!? Every floor was distinctively different.
6. Way too short? That's just an opinion. I like the fact that not every role-playing game is 60+ hours long.
7. Maximum 10 levels for characters? Yes, that's exactly how it was supposed to be. Remember, TOEE was based off an old pen&paper module. The developers had to stay within certain guidelines. I didn't hear anyone bitching about Baldurs Gate maxing out at 7th-8th level.
8. Tons of bugs after the patch? Please name some. I haven't encountered a single one. (Unless you count the way NPC'S loot)
9. As far as IWD2 being better, Iwould have to say it's a close call. I really enjoyed IWD2 . Like I said though, after all the other D&D games being set in the Forgotton Realms universe, It was nice to have a change of pace.
1. If You noticed, I've put the D&D 3.5 rules both in the category goods & bads. Compared to 2.0 or elder I find 3.5 way better. But compared to many other none D&D rules it lacks complexity and posibilities.
2. The bad or almost non-existing descriptions of items, all the waste of space items (Hats, boots, bracers, gloves, shirts etc). No destinct appearance difference of potions, No markings of magic/non identified items unless you hover you mouse over the item. Lacking of quick moving of single items to different inventories and more. Horrible is maybe a too strong word and I may be spoiled by other games excellent solutions, but their is just so many small annoying things in TOEE.
3. It doesn't matter what the developers promised us, it's still a doll main story. I'm not dissappointed that it is missing, as I didn't expect it to be deep anyway, but it is still a fact that the game has a very doll story imho.
4. My point in feeling an immersive feeling into the game-world, not the game itself, is that you actual feel you are in the game-world itself, and that feeling can only first person or close over head perspective games give me. And even by degrading the game to 800 X 600 still makes my characters feel like small RTS puppets.
5. I don't find 4-5 floors in a building so different interesting, despite the fact that the enemies was different... ehh in appearance anyway. But okay TOEE is like POR2 on this point a combat heavy game, where a fight is waiting behind every door you open.
6. Yes, it's just an opinion, like every other comment here including yours, but it's still way to short in my opinion, they should have cut ca. 10 $ of the prize to match the value compared to many other games.
7. Again I don't care about the original intentions from the old P&P days. I happens to like complex long planning character development, and TOEE satisfies me not on this point. I'm glad you are happy with this, I just got another feeling about it, that's it.
8. I had at the end 2 characters that suffered from "entangled" permanently, The game crashes to desktop if you use certain combinations of area spells, Crafting items of any sort is still bugged, NPC's keeps asking about quests which are solved, many D&D 3.5 rules are still not correct and more
9. IWD2 is better than TOEE in many ways 
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Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:42 am |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
Why I said "Im sorry its bad"..
Is because I spent a lot of time trying to like it. I spent a lot of time looking forward to it also.
Im pretty sure... that the developer may have predicted the game would be like this.
Its a recreation of a pen and paper module in a fallout arcanum like interface.
But after playing it I have to wonder 'WHY?' why make such a complex interface to try to play a pen and paper game? And why this one? When they created the game, why did they choose this as their content?
Im sorry because... this game is bad. It entertained me at no point.
The interest it gave me was solely in looking at its features. IE this is how you cast spells, this is how you level up. Levelling up was interesting...Applying the feats.
But there was no game. There were locations... The npcs gave me a few poor stories that didnt really interact or even have anything to do with anything... there were a bunch of pretty monsters... I killed them.
The movies were good quality. There were a couple different ones.
I can tell you the story in this run-on sentence : " There was a temple of elemental evil that was defeated but its still there and when you find it theres some monsters in there to kill like zuggmatuv."
What can I say, when i look at it from the end... this is a failed computer game. I didnt have fun, it didnt take long.
I couldnt summon the interest to play in more than 45 minute bursts.
I couldnt recomend anyone buy it. Just straight up. I can tell them their are things impressive about it, but I just doubt they would have fun playing it.
Because the truth is, Im way more likely than the average person to appreciate this games good points. |
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Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:15 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
Why I said "Im sorry its bad"..
Is because I spent a lot of time trying to like it. I spent a lot of time looking forward to it also.
It's far between CRPG's now a days, so you really try/hope the few ones that really get released, can satisfy your thirst for those kind of games. So I agree with you here "stamar".
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Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:12 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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And I'm still mystified. TOEE to me was the funnest game I've played since Freedom Force. I played for eight to twelve hour stretches at a time with multiple parties.
Most CPRGs that I don't review I don't finish. I loved Divine Divinity yet I never completed it, for example. TOEE I finished something like five times in three weeks.
It was exactly what I was expecting. A story light dungeon hack with the finest turn based rules in roleplaying. It was what POR2 was SUPPOSED to be.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:02 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
And I'm still mystified. TOEE to me was the funnest game I've played since Freedom Force. I played for eight to twelve hour stretches at a time with multiple parties.
Most CPRGs that I don't review I don't finish. I loved Divine Divinity yet I never completed it, for example. TOEE I finished something like five times in three weeks.
It was exactly what I was expecting. A story light dungeon hack with the finest turn based rules in roleplaying. It was what POR2 was SUPPOSED to be.
I too liked the turn based combat, it was a nice change with full combat control in a D&D universe, but what specific else did, you find so intriging by TOEE, or was the TB combat enough for you?
I don't mind playing dungeon hack's from time to time, but these games invites for power building your party/characters, and meager 10 levels cap, and 75% of the items are cosmetic, D&D rules that only have the choice of "Feasts" as a challenge for the party building player, is just not good enough imho for a hack 'n slash game.
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Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:32 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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- The turn based combat, which lead to
- Nearly full tactical options from the Pen and Paper game
- Charge, Withdraw, 5 foot steps, attack of opportunity, trip, cast defensively, etc.
- The simple yet engaging story. You can say "There's a temple. It's evil." and run with it, allowing you to use your imagination as to what is occurring.
- Branching dialogues. Just wish they were better written.
Mostly, it's the combat... it's done right. Post patch item creation gets a nod. I loved that feature once it worked.
Oh and of course the character and party generation.
10 levels was plenty for me. In fact, had I had to 'grind' to 20 levels I might have gotten bored of the game. Instead, like the original gold box games, I'm looking forward to continuing my party's adventure in a sequel.
Can't do that with NWN's official expansions. You're max level from the original campaign and so if you use that character SHadows of Undrentide is boring.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:46 pm |
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JDR13
Magister of the Light
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 376
Location: Michigan, United States |
Michael C, I'm not going to reply to all of those points because i'm simply too damn lazy to type that much right now. It's all just a matter of opinion anyways.
(I bet we both agree that BG 1&2 are still the best D&D games anyways)
However I must say that I think those bugs you are claiming have to do with your system, not the game. I've put many hours into the game after installing the patch and never encountered any of those bugs. |
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Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:13 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
quote:
Originally posted by JDR13
Michael C, I'm not going to reply to all of those points because i'm simply too damn lazy to type that much right now. It's all just a matter of opinion anyways.
HeHe, okay let us rest our cases here!
(I bet we both agree that BG 1&2 are still the best D&D games anyways)
Close enough
However I must say that I think those bugs you are claiming have to do with your system, not the game. I've put many hours into the game after installing the patch and never encountered any of those bugs.
The crashes to desktop might be my system, I do recall that TOEE insisted to install "Direct X 9.1B" that might have made my system more unstable, but my "entangle" problem and a few others are defently game bugs.
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Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:17 pm |
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JDR13
Magister of the Light
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 376
Location: Michigan, United States |
That's pretty weird. I'm a heavy magic user and I've yet to encouter any of those bugs. I use Entangle a lot also. |
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Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:54 pm |
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