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| Can the remakers add Ultima style gameplay to the DS engine? |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
Garrett
Joined: 13 Jul 2001
Posts: 74
Location: Munich, Germany |
Now that Dungeon Siege is out, I'd like to hear your opinion, whether the Ultima remakes can be properly done with the DS engine. I am asking, because there is a difference between Ultima-style adventure like gameplay and DS action-like gameplay. |
Mon Apr 22, 2002 3:38 pm |
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vaticide
Put food in here
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Posts: 1122
Location: One step behind a toddler bent on destruction. |
I definately think this is possible. From what I have read about the scripting and modding of the game, it appears very versitile. It would take a large effort on the part of the mod designers to make it a high fidelity mimic though.
-vaticide |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 3:42 pm |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
Garret: Nice pic. 
_________________
There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:19 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Yes, I think they can do it.
I read several articles about mods and about editors etc. They talk about many scripts that are possible, but were not implemented in DS game.
I mean there are many open way... just script it. |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:24 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
quote:
Originally posted by DzD
Garret: Nice pic.
Planescape: Torment...
_________________
Jaz |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:20 pm |
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Rawis
Gorthaur
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1861
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Ultima... hmm, i have not realy played any Ultima game, but i don't think it would do well with the DS engine, I think it would be too much like DS... |
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Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:27 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
I've never played Ultima but I'll bet they can use the DS engine for remakes.
One review I read about DS said that it was originally conceived as a demo to show what the engine was capable of. That would imply that it was meant to be flashy and over the top. It seems a teensy bit unfair to typecast the whole engine as only capable of making DS clones, doesn't it?
It seems like the engine could be used however you want. It has all the elements of full blown RPG thrown in so that you can see what's possible. You can see, for instance, that you can level the character up, apply xp, talk to NPC's, create detailed landscapes, provide extreme combat and so forth. I fully agree that most of these elements are very underdeveloped but if DS started as an engine demo then they wouldn't need to be very developed just to show that it could be done.
Wouldn't the story, pace, character development, NPC interaction and all that stuff be decided by the game designers and not the engine? If you were making a demo then making the world "one long spaghetti" (TM) is fine, but you wouldn't have to do it like that. If you were to make a fully immersive RPG then you obviously wouldn't make it one huge free for all from beginning to end, right? You would add more stats to develop, better NPC dialog options, a much slower pace and so on.
I don't know, I saw all the elements of a real CRPG touched on in DS. It seems to me that what is done with these elements is up to the remake designers.
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''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast |
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Wed Apr 24, 2002 3:46 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
DS does have those elements but unless you play the ultima games you cant realy tell what it needs to do.
The ultimas have always been about creating a living breathing world. Not just a hack and slash RPG. You can run around and kill things like other RPG's but you can also take almost anything from the environment, use it (e.g. get eggs, flower, and water and go to an oven and bake some bread).
I dont think DS does this now, but from what I have seen of the demo it doesnt seem like its impossible to do. |
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Wed Apr 24, 2002 4:02 pm |
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Guest
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BUT... can you make a game with the DS engine that have another FEELING? |
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Thu Apr 25, 2002 9:46 am |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
Well I dont know about another feeling. Its usually almost impossible to make a game feel different when using the same engine. Look at Theif/System Shock 2. Very different games but they both FEEL very alike. |
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Thu Apr 25, 2002 1:52 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
Well I dont know about another feeling. Its usually almost impossible to make a game feel different when using the same engine. Look at Theif/System Shock 2. Very different games but they both FEEL very alike.
I'm sure that's true, I'm not familiar with either game, so I'll take your word. Actually, I know that Jaz has never felt more betrayed by the ending of a game than System Shock 2.  It's kind of hard to understand what you mean by "FEEL very alike" if they are "Very different games" without having played them. If what you said earlier about Ultima "Creating a living breathing world" is true then I think a beautiful, immersive, highly versitile engine like DS would fit the bill. More things could be made interactive, a story backgound could certainly be established, there could be more realistic NPCs. I don't believe there's any reason to think otherwise.
Whether anything other than DS will be done with the engine is anybody's guess. I think when the first game on a new engine is released it tends to be looked at as a definitive example of all that is possible. I can look at DS and see that it's capable of way more.
It's the same as when an actress or actor plays a particular role for a while. When they try to move on to something different they have trouble finding work. It isn't because they aren't capable of doing something else--it's just that no one expects them to do anything else.
I think a slow paced, story driven, living, breathing world done on the DS engine would feel very different from Dungeon Siege. Even if it did have the same feel as DS the gameplay would be completely different so it wouldn't really matter--it would only look like Dungeon Siege.
Besides, didn't each new Ultima have a different feel from the Previous ones? If they didn't then why bother with them? I recently saw Ultima 1. My landlord showed the game to me when I asked him about the Ultima series. If you're telling me that the current version has the same feel as U1 then I really don't understand what you mean by feel! Ultima reminded of one of those old arcade games that just moves lines and dots across the screen.
I would love to see a developer push the limits of the DS engine! I'll bet that the results would really surprise you, Chekote. Maybe time will tell, huh? 
_________________
''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast
Last edited by Gig on Sat Apr 27, 2002 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:40 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Gig
Besides, didn't each new Ultima have a different feel from the Previous ones? If they didn't then why bother with them? I recently saw Ultima 1. My landlord showed the game to me when I asked him about the Ultima series. If you're telling me that the current version has the same feel as U1 then I really don't understand what you mean by feel! Ultima reminded of one of those old arcade games that just moves lines and dots across the screen.
They have improved the graphics Gig. Ultima 1 was made a loonnngggg time ago when those graphics were bleeding edge. Just look at the graphics in Ultima 9. It's quite pretty, although the gameplay did suffer in the game. Graphics aren't everything. I'll take gamepley and story over graphics any day of the week.
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Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:42 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
I'm not sure if SysShock 2 and the Thief games had the same feeling because they shared the same engine ... they also shared - at least to some extent - the same creators/developers. But I agree, the 'organic' part of SS2 and the 'crypt hopping' part of Thief 1 had pretty much the same feel, sometimes it's really hard for me to remember which was which. They used the same engine AND a very similar theme there!
So same engine and different theme might not FEEL too similar. Take Unreal and Deus Ex, for example... same engine but completetly different feel!
_________________
Jaz |
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Fri Apr 26, 2002 6:01 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
Its usually almost impossible to make a game feel different when using the same engine. Look at Theif/System Shock 2. Very different games but they both FEEL very alike.
Sorry to quote you twice on the same post, but I need this statement for reference.
Morrowind is done on the NetImerse engine. Two other games that I'm familiar with that use the same engine are Freedom Force and Simon the Sorcerer. These three games have nothing in common. I can tell from the previews that Morrowind and Freedom Force are like night and day. Simon the Sorcerer is kind of a Legend of Zelda sorta thing, at least grapically. Three very different games with possibly the same feel, depending on how you define it. They don't feel the same to me at all (I'm guessing at Morrowind of course) but they all use the same engine.
_________________
''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast |
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Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:49 am |
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