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Lord Chambers
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
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| Can you make an RPG without combat? |
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Technically, it'd be easy too, but can you create an enjoyable RPG without combat?
The more and more I think about it, the more I realize how at a loss I am for how a developer could go about this. How do you make an RPG without combat? What would the characters do? What would the plot be? There is plenty of non-violent conflict I could imagine to fill out a story, but not the actual gameplay. Where would any challenge come from for the player?
It's an important design challenge, if RPGs are going to elevate the medium past the hack 'n' slash tedium. There certainly are RPGs that don't center around combat, but I'm unaware of any RPG without any combat options that offers the same amount of fun for the player. No doubt, years of playing RPGs that all have very strong combat elements have tainted my ability to see outside of the standard. What do you think? Can you envision an RPG without combat? |
Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:36 am |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
Give The Sims a story and you probably have it. 
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If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:45 am |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
As far as I know MMORPG 'A Tale in the Desert' has no combat. And people enjoy it. |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:53 am |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
I doubt it is possible to create RPG without combat. Well, probably there are people out there, who can like such RPG... |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:04 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Is it possible? Certainly. Would it sell? Unlikely!! The closest any game came to it was probably PS-T, which had very little necessary combat; you could avoid most through dialogue options. The main problem would likely be 'what would you DO?' I mean why would a mage bother learning spells if he/she never got to use them? Games like Thief, while not RPG's show that combat can be avoided, but after awhile I found that a little tedious and frustrating. Diplomacy can be great, but after a few hours, your fingers itch to simply kill something!! 
One of the things I liked about Arx, was that you could get through large sections of the game without killing anything, but which of us weren't just waiting to wipe out the Goblins once we'd finished having to be nice to them!! Good balance is the key, but it's often hard to achieve. That's why some games are GREAT and others merely good!!
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:51 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
quote:
Originally posted by corwin
which of us weren't just waiting to wipe out the Goblins once we'd finished having to be nice to them!!
I wasn't. They were cute. |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:29 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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quote:
Originally posted by corwin
Games like Thief, while not RPG's show that combat can be avoided, but after awhile I found that a little tedious and frustrating.
You can kill things in Thief, but you don't have to.
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:53 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
There were levels in Thief II where you weren't allowed to kill, not even knock out people. You weren't to leave any trace, and there were certain levels of the same kind in Rogue Spear. |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:27 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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I think that depended on the difficulty you chose. At any rate, in most levels you could at least knock the guards out, which is, in a way, similiar to killing. (I don't remember now, but I think they didn't actually get up back again when you knocked them down)
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:46 pm |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
The reason we have combat based RPGs is that fighting can be easily simulated. Social interactions and other complex tasks that happed in real life can't easily be sumulated.
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"You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers." |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:54 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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That and because no form of entertainment media can endure without violence. Sex can be avoided (occassionally) but violence must be present in order to be a successful entertainment media.
If you want a RPG without a lot of violence try the old King's Quest series by Sierra. You could die (a lot) but there was no actual combat (until the later games).
But for the lack of character development and combat most people classify it as a puzzle/adventure game... not a CRPG.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:21 pm |
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mkreku
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 112
Location: Uppsala, Sweden |
I don't know if there ARE any rpg's without combat, but it's definitely possible to create one. It would just have to be challenging in other areas. For example: it would be possible to make a game where you were a citizen of a city and you had a job that you needed to go to, with different missions each day. For every successful day you'd get more money/experience and you'd get stronger/faster/smarter/whatever. You could own an upgradable car that you'd spend your money on, thus making it handle better, become faster etc.
It could actually be a really neat game, now that I think about it. A huge 3D city that you're free to explore at your own will, filled with living, breathing NPC's and lots of side quests (help lady get her cat out of the tree and so on), lots of hidden stuff (maybe like the packages in GTA3/GTA Vice City?) and plenty of vehicles. How come there are no rpg's with driveable vehicles? I want an rpg where I can develop both my character and my car! Anyhow, you could race, explore, play mini games, collect stuff and so on, without any combat or violence involved.
Ok, this became one weird post. But you get the picture.
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Swedes visit NordicGamers for the latest game reviews in swedish! |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:39 pm |
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Arma
Mysterious Lady
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1230
Location: in the middle of hell |
mkreku, what do you need an RPG for? If you want to improve both your charachter, and your car, get a life!
If you feel offended, I'm sorry, I wan't meaning anything. |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:02 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I agree that an RPG without combat is possible. ATitD does it with crafting and puzzles. Although I still haven't figured out just how drinking enough wine to sink a battleship would end up raising your perception stat. 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:50 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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Of course it would be entirely possible! The Fallouts are good evidence of being able to play through a game without fighting. PS:T is almost the same, but has some required fighting.
You could make some politic/aristocratic RPG in almost any setting. The RP could choose to be a politician, a bureaucrat (errr... sp?) or any kind of suit. Each getting specialities. The plot could be to become a sort of ruler or a high administratice person. I believe present or a sci-fi setting would suit that best, however.
Although I don't think you'd be out adventuring much. I guess any RP would mostly be moving within cities and castles. You could walk around in the cities picking up rumours, buying things (not weapons and potions, but information, buildings, thugs, caravans etc).
It could be impossible to use weapons, or you would just face extreme repercussions from it. In a game like Thief where you have to outwit you opponents, or another approach where you strong-arm your opponents (either within the frames of a bureaucratic system or from the outside, using a Godfather-like approach).
Imagine; a game system completely built upon dialogue gaining exp from doing "quests" in form of working for higher bureucrats or politicans, trying to find diplomatic solutions to various heated debates between powerful fractions and such.
Another fun thing would be that you could use a more realistic combat (which you could only witness) where one cut will kill most.
Definitely doable, just maybe a bit more secluded and limited. Needless to say I would never play such a boring pile of crap.
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:08 pm |
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