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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
| Tips on Followers in Gothic 2 |
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To Wulf and all others interested,
In keeping with my "Tips on Followers..." topic in the G1 Tips and Tricks forum, I've begun exploring how to manage followers (sometimes called "latchers") in G2.
First, the natural followers in G2 are (AFAIK) (in order of appearance): Ulf (if you are a Novice), Bilgot (VoM), Biff (VoM), Angar (VoM and Isle), Cipher and Rod (VoM), Sylvio and Bullco (sort of)(VoM), and Rosi and Till (Ch5).
In addition, there are the ones you get to follow: Bartok, Mika and Lares (all in or near Khorinis).
One of the big advantages for both groups is that anything they kill (while "attached"), your hero gets the experience points.
I have found what is necessary to convert any NPC in the game into a follower. The big problem was finding out how to get them to share their experience points with your hero.
Here are the steps to convert an NPC into a follower:
1. Save the game and turn on Marvin mode.
2. Get NPC in focus and possess him/her.
3. Enter Console mode and use 'hero export <name>' to make a .zen file of that NPC.
4. Exit game and bring up the .zen file you just created for that NPC in a text editor.
5. Change perm and temp attitudes to 3.
6. Change NPC type to 1.
7. Change 'CurrRoutine' to either RTN_FOLLOW_602 (based on Ulf following hero as Novice) or RTN_FOLLOWTOOCBRIDGE_4120 (based on Bilgot in VoM).
8. Copy and paste the entire 'scriptVars' and 'scriptWp' strings from Bilgot or Ulf to replace the ones the NPC originally had.
(This is the secret to make the NPC share experience points with the hero).
9. Save the .zen file and restart the game.
10. Once back into the game, possess the NPC again and then use 'hero import <name>' to bring in the edited .zen file.
11. Switch back to the "Me" character and you will find that the NPC will now follow you around faithfully.
12. You will need to use possession to manage the items that your new follower is equipped with.
That's the basics! I'll post more on the overall process of managing followers later.
_________________
imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:50 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
In my previous post I mentioned that you need the 'scriptVar' string from either Bilgot or Ulf. This means, unfortunately, that you need to have a saved game with either of the two in it so you can possess them and create a .zen file for one.
The string is long, so I'm reluctant to post it here. Let me know if you really must have it and we'll arrange something.
Now, on to the philosophy of Follower Management (FM).
The easiest way to go is work them like you could in G1 -- they just follow you around, fight for you, you edit their attributes as needed and you only possess them when you need to manipulate their equipment.
In G1, possessing an NPC for more than this was not very useful since other NPCs would not react to a possessed NPC the same way they would to the hero himself.
This is not true in G2 -- NPCs will react to a possessed NPC exactly the same way they would to the hero (but modified a bit based on the attributes and settings within the possessed NPC, more on this later).
This presents a couple other options for game play:
1. Have each follower join a different guild (Militia, Mages, Mercs) and learn their own skills. (I'm in the process of trying this option right now, more later).
2. Actually possess another character permanently and get rid of the original hero character altogether! (I haven't tried this yet, but so far it looks like it could work).
3. Other options I haven't considered yet.
As mentioned, I'm trying option (1) right now. To get it to work, I needed to get the 'Me' character to follow another character when I am possessing them. To do this, I made a backup .zen file of the Me character (and all the other NPCs for that matter) and in a separate copy I went through the steps to turn 'Me' into a follower. This worked very well and now it doesn't matter which character I'm possessing, the whole group moves properly as a unit.
I decided to look for the appropriate NPC's to take on as my "party" of permanent followers. I wanted lower level characters that could grow with Me and not overshadow the hero. Also, I wanted in-game reasons for them to follow Me.
Therefore, my party:
1. Bandit -- He's the first bandit you come across (at the foot of the steps to the bandit cave near Xardas). After talking to him and getting him on my side, it only made sense to offer him a job once the location of the hideout was made known to the farmers. I'll have him learn all the "thief" skills and eventually he will become a Merc.
2. Regis -- He's the guy sitting on the bench near Matteo's shop. He's broke and thinking of joining the Militia. So I offer him a job and encourage him to join the Militia as our ambassador to the King's men.
3. Edda -- She's broke and feeling down. With her faith in Innos, I'll set her up as a Novice and let her take the Test of Fire. That ought to shake up that Old Boys Club at the Monastary! 
4. Me -- The hero. I'll just have him act as the central management point for the group and never have him actually join any guild at all. We'll see how that works out.
To make all of this work there are a few things to watch out for:
1. Guild -- be sure to set the guild of your follower to 0 when they first sign on to you. Then they can follow all the steps the hero would in becoming a member of a guild.
Note: Bandit's guild MUST be changed, since he starts out as guild=9 (bandit) and anyone with this guild number is automatically attacked by townsfolk!
(This actually makes a good tool -- if you want the party to attack a person along with you, rather than just stand around and watch, use 'edit focus' on your opponent and make him guild=9. )
2. Experience points -- If you change 'Point of View' (PoV) character often, you will get your points scattered across multiple characters and you'll never gain levels. Decide on which character will be the central repository for points and set everyone else to exp=0. Then, periodically, look through the characters, add up all the points and give them to your repository char. Then reset the others back to 0.
3. Thievery -- If your followers see you steal while you are indoors (house, not a cave) they will attack you, calling you a dirty thief! To get around this, I use the "wait here" order. You do this by just using 'kill' from the Console on each, do your dirty work, then come back to them, possess each in turn and hit F8 to revive them. Don't go too far away from them, though, or they may be gone when you get back! (Be sure to save before doing this!)
4. Levels, Attributes and Skills -- You may want to do this differently, but I decided to set each character to a given base at the time they are recruited and then grow them individually from there. Therefore, regardless of how the game gives them to me, I set them to Str 10, Dex 10, Mana 10. I make their level the same as the hero's and then calculate their starting hit points and learning points: hit points = 40 + (level X 12) and learning points = level X 10.
Then I take them to the various teachers and let them spend their LPs on what makes sense for that character. After that initial setup, I keep the levels, learning points and hit points of each in step with the central repository character, so they all advance at the same pace.
OK, enough about how I do it. Any comments from the audience?
_________________
imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:38 am |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Holy crap!  You've been busy. Though I suppose it will be easier and more fun this way. However, some members of your party may die when you go to the VoM because as you may know, nobody in Gothic 2 hesitates to attack anything, so you may end up with a battle between your followers and the orcs.
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:41 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Hey there imposteraz,
You've done it again! - - this is truly amazing work that you have delved into.
The explanations are simple and logical, there is no reason for anyone interested in FM strategy not to be able to "follow" these reasonings and it work out that G2 is better to tweak after all.
I had no doubt at all that you would sort out the various requirements, i did ease off for a while but now i have no excuse, the groundwork is layed. I'm staying with this from now on and will report back, the storyline of the game will from now on play a part in future developments.
Will you be (in time) tweaking the orc's? - - not sure about lizard men? skeletons will be hard to use maybe, shadow lord inubis is a real killer if handled correctly (he can not pick up items but you will know that they can be put into the invetory via the zen file but there are limitations, but then an eqipped weapon can be inserted in the zen.
@MageofFire,
Here is the info you have dreamt of, no excuse, a beautiful, full fledged battle between two clans, (or more?) and not to forget any npc or beast can be used in any world or chapter.
I'll be back. 
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:27 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Big battles will also be better in Gothic 2 than in Gothic because NPCs are smarter and better at fighting. For instance, certain NPCs in Gothic will always use a certain weapon regardless of the situation. I'm sure you have seen a guard pull out his crossbow to deal with a shadowbeast or some other creature who is right on top of him and wondered how anyone could be so stupid. In Gothic 2 people will (usually  ) use the appropriate weapon for the situation at hand, and melee combat is implemented much better in Gothic 2, thus making for more intense and exciting battles. I can't wait to get started! 
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:43 am |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Thanks for the kind words on my work!
I'll continue to look at different aspects of the game and see if I can make control of followers better.
One thing that you (MageofFire) bring up -- that the party will just attack the Orcs in the VoM (and therefore get killed) -- is a good one. I think the answer lies somewhere in the FightTactic and FightMode settings for the character. Initial testing seems to indicate that a FightTactic of 2 or 3 will cause followers to attack normally (I'll need to see if there is any real difference between 2 and 3, none seen so far). A FightTactic of 0, though, seems to cause the followers to just follow along while you are moving, but just stand there and do nothing otherwise, even in the middle of a battle. I have no idea what other settings do, but I'll be looking into it.
As for Orcs, that's a project for later. They are not quite as complete as other characters, in that they do not wear armor. The armor they have is built into their definition and cannot be removed. I'll be looking into other differences, too.
Defintely let me know what you find out as you play with this.
Also, here's beginning list of the various guilds encountered in G2:
0 = none
1 = Paladin
2 = Militia
3 = Town Citizen
4 = Mage
5 = Novice
6 = Dragon Hunter
7 = Mercenary
8 = Farmer
9 = Bandit (attacked by other guilds)
10= Convict
11= Seeker
12= Land Dweller (farm hand?)
-------------------------------------
17= Meatbug (not attacked by NPCs)
18= Sheep (not attacked by NPCs)
19= Goblin (attacked by other guilds)
etc.
That's what I have for now.
_________________
imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:17 am |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Maybe I'll set a bunch of people's guild number to "sheep," and the others' to "wolf." 
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:12 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Hey there Imposteraz,
It's early days yet for any conclusions, i am only testing various single npc's at the moment, i chose Nadja at one point and she fights like the devil, her senses seem more accute than mine, (pc-hero) she will run and attack long before i have even noticed an enemy.
I am trying to get more realistic clothing to suit the various styles, i really like the idea of a "Robin Hood" type follower, i'll will use Nadja, she's good with the bow and magic. The bandits armour (patchwork) when coloured green,
(Lincoln green) (Sherwood Forrest) style, looks good. Good clothing will give the followers new emphasis, like i said, there's much to do and there will be plenty of screen-shots when the battles appear.
Here's a quick "early days" pic. 
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:37 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Wulf,
I do have say that you are crazy, but I mean that in a good way!
I'm glad you're having fun with my concepts on FM.
When I pulled together my party (PC-Hero, Bandit, Regis and Edda), I made sure to reduce all their skills to zero (by setting all "oCNpcTalent" clusters to zeros and "hc1-4" to 10 -- the critical hit percentages). Then I had them buy their levels in the various skills using their own learning points. This keeps any of the followers from overshadowing the PC-Hero earlier in the game (and also giving too much of an advantage to the group).
So far I've found that it's pretty balanced to have 4 characters -- surprise, surpsrise! I thought my group would walk all over monsters that we encountered, but not at all. You still have to use strategy (and lots of save/reloads). The big problem is making sure that all of your party members are still alive after each fight.
It also takes a lot of time to properly manage the group's equipment, and to keep the group together going around tight corners (especially on stairs).
I have found that it does let me make really focused characters, e.g. Edda is level 8, but still at Str 10 and Dex 30. I'm holding her points for when she becomes a Mage. Also, Bandit (at level  is still at Str 10, though he is at Dex 52 and knows all the thieving skills amd Bow at 30. When you have only one character, you have to make at least a few compromises between being a specialist in one thing or a jack of all trades. Using a large party like this lets me have a group of true specialists.
Bye for now.
_________________
imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:07 am |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Hello all,
Just an update on FM.
I've run into a bit of a snag -- once I update the .zen files of my characters so they follow each other, some of the options in the game no longer work for them.
What I've seen so far: characters can't read books, create potions, create runes, pray at shrines or forge swords. The animation shows them getting into action, but the option menu never comes up so they can actually perform the task.
To get around this, I used a backup .zen file of the PC-Hero (before making him a follower) to make a stripped-down character (he just has his clothes and nothing else). When this character is imported over any other, this character can now perform the activites mentioned above. Here's how to manage this:
1. Get character ready to perform action (has all equipment/items needed) and save game.
2. Drop equip/items to be used (herbs, lab bottles, runes, etc.) on the ground.
3. "hero export" the character at this point.
4. "hero import" the stripped-down PC-hero character you make from a backup .zen (from before he was made into a follower).
5. Pick up the items to be used.
6. Perform your action (create potions, runes, swords, etc.).
7. Drop all items to the ground.
8. "hero import" the real character back again.
9. Pick up all items and see if everything is there.
10. If everything is good, save game again and move on.
BTW, the only exception to the above is that the PC-Hero character (even after being made into a follower) can still read books, though none of the other characters can. Very strange!
_________________
imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:39 am |
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Whailor
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 423
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
changing the char model is not hard, you can even become a skeleton and play like this, it doesn't require too much editing. Although, if you do become someone else, be at least someone who has inventory heheh..
As for the followers, then yeah, can be done, I've done it, but never really used it that much. I didn't like to babysit them and I prefer solo mode anyway. But, yeah, why not, for kicks and giggles it could be done  |
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Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:19 am |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Hey there Imposteraz,
Just on the question of members of the group staying alive after each fight,
in the past i have (and i'm sure you have) had followers who eat food or take a drink when a fight is over, this is only so with certain/specific characters, at this point in your work maybe rather than later on, it would be great news to find the key to this. All that would then be needed would be followers with plenty of food/drinks. I think Cavalorn in Gothic used to do this? 
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:12 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Wulf,
As long as you distribute healing potions to all of the NPCs, they will drink and heal up just fine. AFAIK, they will not eat herbs or food to heal up, though. Usually I just make a pass at possessing each in turn and heal them up and/or recover mana points after a fight.
I have found that you can get mages to just stand there and throw spells, rather than charging into combat, by making adjustments to Fight_Tactics and Fight_Mode in the .zen files:
Set Fight_Tactic = 0 and Fight_Mode = 7, and the mage will stay in place (once a foe has been sensed) and just throw her favorite spell.
I'd like to find a way to have this work for shooting bows, but in the New World anything besides Fight_Mode = 7 (when Fight_Tactic = 0) and the NPC just stands there and does nothing.
Note: You might as well set the Fight_Mode to 7 for all those in your party, since you can't adjust Fight_Mode from the Console (only by direct editing of the .zen file). You can adjust Fight_Tactic and if Fight_Tactic is anything else beside 0, the NPC fights normally anyway. This way you can switch between a mage standing and throwing spells, and later dive into a different combat with a hand weapon just by switching between Fight_Tactic 0 and 2.
_________________
imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:22 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Hey there Imposteraz,
As usual, all top class info from you,
1. A normal follower with the zen edited only to follow, (RTN_FOLLOW_****) surely
if armed with bow/arrows will by default, if used once, then shouldered the bow
will next, use the bow, so the zen info'at that "shouldered" point would show?
2. Spells can go great distances, so early detection is then the key for the mage
to stop and cast (before the others are triggered) then they would attack the
enemy when within distance, by editing the "senses" distance to a higher than
3000 ?
3. The invisible vob/bounding box can be made to visible while this is
done/edited/toggled, this makes the box bigger by volume (root-cubed) this
surely must be somewhere in the zen.?
4. We have all seen at some point where an npc' changes from ranged to melee
weapon automatically, this again is the ajustment of the ratios of the several
types of invisible "boxes" there must be about 4/5 overlayed within each other
i may delve into this (i have played with this in the past and it's a bit deep
but it may help you on this?
5. I have Velaya now sat on the horse, she is using bows, this is "modded" of
course, she has the "Sherwood" green outfit now, looks nothing like Gothic.
I agree with your "4" followers, you allways did like 4 {shrat,Lester,Milten &
Dusty) i will stay at 3 for now, 1 evil (black look) mage, and 2 fast bowgirls.
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:09 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Wulf,
Good points all, I'll answer as best I can:
1. I'll have to look into that and see if the previous state is recorded in the .zen file, and if this will actually make a difference. The states change all the time depending on what the character senses, but there may be a way to make a certain state "stick".
2. A lot depends on the skill level of the characters. Spells always hit at long range (as long as the target does not move before it gets there) and this is a BIG advantage. For bows, though, you have to be very high skill level to hit at extreme range. Since I'm advancing these characters normally with LPs, their skill level is not that high yet. I'd almost prefer to set the senses range for them to a LOWER number, so they don't waste arrows/bolts shooting at longer range than they can actually hit.
I've noticed that if you do set the senses range, it does not "stick". Instead, it works for awhile, but soon gets reset to the default. Any ideas on how to get it to "stick"?
3. Sorry, couldn't tell you on this one. It may be in that block of definitions at the top of the .zen.
4. It may help. Near the top of my wish list is the ability to set which weapon a character will use and have him stay with that weapon throughout that combat. This can be forced by having him drop all but one weapon, so he has no choice, but this is clumsy to manage. Even if you unequip the unwanted weapon, he will still find it in inventory and use it.
The big problem is the time it takes the characters to switch from missile to hand weapons when the bad guys are charging in. Since you can still use missile weaons in hand combat, I'd like to find a quick way to set that (preferably through the Console). Oh, well.
5. I'd like to see a screen shot of that! It sounds cool.
My current group (Ch2 in VoM) is PC-Hero (spent most points on Forging skills and Alchemy, and is still not a member of any guild), Edda (now a level 2 Mage with over 100 mana points and really rocks with her Fireballs), Bandit (now a Merc/Thief with a dex over 100 and using a Master Sword and a Crossbow), Regis (with the Militia, he's wearing Heavy Militia Armor, and swinging the Dragon Slicer with a skill of 60%) and finally Dyrian (picked him up outside the Tavern and didn't modify him, I just use him to carry all our extra stuff -- this make managing the other character's inventory easier).
I generally possess either Edda or Bandit when patrolling around (since they have the most effective distance weapons) and let the others shoot as foes come within range. Then they switch to hand weapons to finish off whatever gets too close. This usually works OK, except for the delay in switching weapons (see my complaint above).
_________________
imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:07 pm |
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