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Kiff
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Indiana |
| Are you making money from On-line...? |
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I'll admit it. I'm a buyer. I've done it a few times too. Ok I've never bought a character or spent more than $20 to buy an item or gold but I have bought. Anyone else use playeractions.com or ebay to help them over the hump? Anyone think that should be against a games code of conduct? It does open up a whole new economy though. My friend and I added up how much he could make if he sold all of his equipment and plat on EQ and it equals almost $800.00. Thats not bad, he will probably never sell that stuff off but it is quite interesting to see that he has those alternate assests. He has spent about $200 real world mony on EQ and I have spent about $40 of real world money on DAoC. Someone isn't doing too bade. Are you making a profit off your games? Is this a possible way to make a good living in the furture? My wife is a stay at home mom, and I'm trying to get her to play my toons to get their crafting skillz up so I can Advertise on ebay that I can make and spellcraft you whatever you want and sell it for real world money. Am I an enturpenur or a crook? Your thoughts on Buying your way to the top? |
Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:50 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I neither approve of it nor do it because i feel its just another form of cheating. |
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Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:51 pm |
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Arma
Mysterious Lady
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1230
Location: in the middle of hell |
I don't approve it ...
It IS just another form of cheating, and I think that this is even agaisnt the EULA ... |
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Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:30 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I hope you'll be offering your wife a portion of the profits! 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:25 pm |
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cfmdobbie
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1859
Location: London, England |
Unless it really is in the EULA, I wouldn't say it's any more cheating than people who spent lots of money on trading cards - aside from the fact that MMO producers didn't expect people to be able to improve themselves by paying hard cash!
I wouldn't be so bold as to say I don't approve, but I wouldn't do it myself. Being first and foremost a single-player gamer I look upon playing within the intended rules as the One True Path.
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Charlie Dobbie
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Moderator of the Morrowind/Oblivion Forums= |
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Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:40 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
I don't think buying gaming assests for real money is cheating anyone but yourself. And if anyone wants to do that then it's your prerogative. As long as your buying things to advance more quickly doesn't step on my freedom to have a good time while playing (which I think in this case it doesn't apply), then do it all you want! What do I care? It's your money, do with it as you wish! I'll just be happy to go about at my own pace, that's all.
The real problem is when you buy certain cheating programs that allow you to gain illegal advantages over other players (like that infamous radar plug-in for DAoC that allowed players to "see" everyone around them as blips so they could make beautiful bee-lines towards stealthed characters they should never have even glimpsed...). Buying yourself the best sword from another player for $50 is questionable, but it doesn't affect anyone else really. A higher-level friend could have just given it to you in your guild to help you go up faster, is that cheating?
I myself wouldn't do it, but I won't condemn anyone who does. I think I'm paying enough for these games already. As for selling what I earned in the game I guess I'm just against the idea personally. I'd rather give my gear to a friend rather than profit from it, but that's just me.
In the case of EULA's, I guess it could be different from one dev to another. I remember one of them (was it Turbine?  ) mentioned once that although they didn't encourage, or even liked for their players to sell in-game products for real money, they didn't forbid it either. In general though, I don't think that anyone is allowed to actually profit from these products unless specifically allowed to do so, and I wonder to what extent the law could even take precedence over the EULA in these instances. Who knows?
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
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Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:55 pm |
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Arma
Mysterious Lady
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1230
Location: in the middle of hell |
Hmm, Ekim, I don't think that if a high level character from your guild gives you a more powerful item or whatever, that he doesn't need can be compared to buying something with hard cash. Mainly, because you have at least played a lot in the guild and devoted time and what so ever, so i think that it is normal between guild members to trade items - I meant that if someone gives me a powerful item to give me a better start, when the time comes I would also give a powerful item to someone else to give him a better start.
Besides playing in a Guild is part of the fun. Buying whatever with hard cash, in my opinion, is not. |
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Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:04 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Armageddona
Hmm, Ekim, I don't think that if a high level character from your guild gives you a more powerful item or whatever, that he doesn't need can be compared to buying something with hard cash.
Why not? It has the exact same end-result. Besides, you don'T really have to have been with a guild for very long to be offered hand-me-downs. I've often been offered gear that was very powerful when I just joined a guild that had many high-level characters who just wanted to clear their vaults. Or it could be a good friend that just invited you to play with him in the game and he wants to help you out. What difference is there if you just go out and actually buy that same thing with cash? None in my book, not as far as results go.
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Armageddona
Besides playing in a Guild is part of the fun. Buying whatever with hard cash, in my opinion, is not.
Here I completely agree with you. Buying something is far less rewarding that earning it through playing, or finding it out of luck, or skill! But if someone buys the same sword you just found, does it make your experience much less rewarding, or fun? Not really. It makes his much less fun that's for sure, and that's why I would personally not do it. It doesn't really affect anyone else but the one who buys it.
As for people who sell the items, then I guess it's a question of morality, or something. I'm more against the selling than the buying, to be honest, because you're making real profit on someone's back. Besides, if those who buy these were a little more patient, and joined a good, friendly guild, they'd get most of these things for free.
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
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Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:30 pm |
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vaticide
Put food in here
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Posts: 1122
Location: One step behind a toddler bent on destruction. |
I've never bought or sold anything myself, nor do I plan on it. I've had the opportunity before to sell things for a good deal of money, but I felt like the moment I sold something it would mean that I was working and not playing. In terms of time played to get something that can be sold for any decent amount of money, think of the wage you are setting for yourself. You'll probably find you are making less than a 12 year old sweatshop worker. I say why cheapen yourself or cheapen the experience; play it for the game.
-vaticide |
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Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:32 pm |
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Kiff
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Indiana |
I have fun playing this game (DAoC) and I've never bought or used a cheat program. But while I'm having fun I'm making a lot of plat that I'm not going to use or I have the services other people really want, 1k in Spellcrafting 1k in weaponcrafting and 1k in armorcrafting. So your all saying that if I charge a large amont of money and from the money I make adventuring if I sell that I am in turn making myself a cheap 5th street whore? Or are you saying that I am no longer haveing fun because now I'm a 12 year old sweatshop worker? Well I am having fun and alot of it...I love playing and I am doing one of my favorite hobbies and am gaining the ability to make a profit. This is simply supply and demand. I give away a huge amout of stuff. I see levels 1's and 2's and such I run up to them and give them 10 gold or so just for kicks...I also follow them around for a while and keep them buffed and alive because I like to help the newbies...but when I'm dealing with levels 45+ who I know have the resorces to afford to pay me well for my services I'll take advantage. But from that I have a large amout of unused plat that I can make a profit from...why not! There is absolutly nothing wrong with putting it out there...and if someone so happens to want to buy it...well lucky me. I'll take that. Some of you don't agree but their is a small economy here and it could be a very viable souce of income in the furture. |
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Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:28 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Kiff
So your all saying that if I charge a large amont of money and from the money I make adventuring if I sell that I am in turn making myself a cheap 5th street whore?
Kiff, I don'T think that anyone was saying that you're a "whore" or anything so negative. I would rather say that those who actually spend real cash on these things should know better and try to experience the game at their own pace rather than try to get the best things as fast as possible.
Also, there's no denying the amount of fun that you, or anyone else that sells their game assets have while playing the game. For one thing, you actually seek out these things to get them, and so you're supposed to have fun doing that. The fun aspect is totally lost on those that buy them from you though, no matter what argument they use.
Finally, those who sell game assets for hard cash in online games do earn one criticism from me though. I don't know if it's your case, but I know firsthand that some people that do this try to take advantage of the ignorance of some gamers, and that is not only cheating but I would even call it a crime. Some of the players they sell to just don't know that if they would just join a friendly guild they might have a chance of getting things faster through grouping, or even through hand-me downs. Some "salesmen" just taunt the buyer into thinking that it's the only way for a new player to compete with the more experienced crowd. And while they're not entirely false, they never suggest that the player at least tries to join a guild, and ask friends for their unneeded gear before using real cash to buy this stuff. And that, to me, is just despicable.
You can sell all your loot to anyone as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't affect my gameplay, and so I don'T care. But taking advantage of players' ignorance is just borderline of being a crime, and that I can't accept. Again I'm not saying that that is what you do, some people are very honest out there. But you would never catch me buying things from another player for real cash because I know that there are easier (though maybe slower) alternatives. If you're honest enough to suggest these alternatives to your "clients" before they actually spend money with you, then that's great! If they still want to buy whatever you're selling after that, it's their own prerogative, and their own money!
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
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Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:39 pm |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
I dont buy or sell items in games for real-world money. To me it defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place: to get away from real-world concerns. It worries me though, that if larger profits are being made outside of the games, that game companies are going to start charging for items found it game. Why shouldn't they? They are in business to make and they made or own the game. Imagine before you can loot the Sword of Kalishie the Vengful, you have to enter your credit card number, or see it on your bill at the end of the month. Sword Kilishie the Vengful- Big Game Company Account XXXXXXXXXXX -$5.00
LB |
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Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:41 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
First, I think that people who sell items for real cash are fooling themselves. Yeah, $500 check is very nice for your old character, but I make that in 2-3 days having a real job, working 8 hours a day. Not weeks of 12-18 hour play sessions. The problem is that many people play these games as a real job. It's one thing when you play for fun for many months and then sell your acomplished character and a whole new ballgame when you level characters with the explicit purpouse of selling them for profit. Seriously, get a real job. It's much more profitable.
And to people who buy items... I think it's as much cheating as it would be to hire a cleaning service to clean up your bachelor's apartment a day before some big date. Your place will be spanking clean, impressing your date. But it's not you who did it. In the game, having fancy items is cool because those items are hard to get. Therefore, people who have them are deserving of respect. If you buy such an item through means other than the game, then you circumvented the hardship associated with obtaining the item. Are you still deserving the respect?
I suppose it all comes down to that. Can you buy respect with real life money? Some people think they can and that it's ok. Some people even think it's the only way to go. And some people, of course, think that anybody trying to buy respect is a loser. I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
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Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:39 pm |
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