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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
My father is a huge SF and Fantasy book lover and passed the love of Fantasy (not really so much SF) to me. Fantasy books probably turned me onto CRPGs. I read so many fantasy books and I used to love them all. Until one author raised the bar so much higher than I expected that I can't read most fantasy any more.
George R.R. Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire" series is the best works I have ever read, and I've read a lot. These books are so well written and so emmersive that you really can't put them down. I highly recommend them to anyone, even if you don't like fantasy.
It is fantasy-light; there are no Elves or Dwarves. But there is everything else you could ever want.
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:31 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I'd probably like his work better if I could just bring myself to like one of the characters. Anyone would do, but I just don't like them. Most of the time I just want to leap into the story and bash their idiot heads in with a baseball bat.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
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Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:38 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Thats what I like about the books. They are not predictible. In most books you hope this character does that, and they useually do. Not in ASOIAF. How cardboard and predictible are most characters in fantasy? I used to like Robert Jordan until I realized he had like four different characters with different names (in my opinion). Not liking the characters I see as a positive.
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:13 am |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
quote:
Originally posted by Roqua
Thats what I like about the books. They are not predictible. In most books you hope this character does that, and they useually do. Not in ASOIAF. How cardboard and predictible are most characters in fantasy? I used to like Robert Jordan until I realized he had like four different characters with different names (in my opinion). Not liking the characters I see as a positive.
I like the way his characters are flawed and individualistic. Brings them closer to real people.
Robert Jordan was all right until I noticed that he couldn't write. What drives a man to write about women tugging their braids X times per page, or worrying about their dresses and plunging necklines, or petrifying us with roughly 10,000 pages where the story dissolves in a quagmire of subplots and hundreds of minor characters?
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Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:49 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
I agree with Val about Martin and Namirrah about Jordan, even though I continue to read their books. (I guess I must have some masochistic tendancies) I found with Martin, if I did begin to like a character, he usually killed them off. Jordan is just tedious; Readers Digest, where are you when we finally need you?!! Eddings has run out of original ideas and from what I've seen lately, so has Feist. Doesn't leave much worth bothering about, does it!!
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:08 am |
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vaticide
Put food in here
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Posts: 1122
Location: One step behind a toddler bent on destruction. |
Great, I just started reading my first George R.R. Martin book this week and I have something to worry about! Doh!
-vaticide |
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Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:22 am |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
quote:
Originally posted by corwin
I agree with Val about Martin and Namirrah about Jordan, even though I continue to read their books. (I guess I must have some masochistic tendancies) I found with Martin, if I did begin to like a character, he usually killed them off. Jordan is just tedious; Readers Digest, where are you when we finally need you?!! Eddings has run out of original ideas and from what I've seen lately, so has Feist. Doesn't leave much worth bothering about, does it!!
I know this is a bit off topic, but there are still many good authors in the field, aside from the ones we've mentioned, and many forgotten authors who have some classic and endearing works.
Gene Wolfe has a whole slew of books that blur the line between fantasy and science fiction, though, on the surface, they appear mostly fantasy. I'd consider his magnum opus the Book of the New Sun quintology (starting with the first book The Shadow of the Torturer). He mixes a lot of traditional medieval elements into a strange and unsettling future, where every sunset may be the last, glaciers creep southward to envelop Urth in a final icy embrace, and myths and miracles provide solace to a people both civilized and savage. I also like his Soldier series, but it's more confusing, and possibly boring for those not interested in classical cultures. When I want substance and elegant prose, I turn to Wolfe.
Jack Vance wrote a lot of classic fantasy, and he has fantastic, playful prose. His magic system is the most widely used in the world--it's the magic system of D&D (Gary Gygax borrowed it from Vance's The Dying Earth novels). Easy, but delightful reading.
I've heard Steven Erikson is a great author, similar to Martin. I've never read his books, because they're not widely available here in the US. But you might want to consider looking into his work if you haven't already. It seems he has many fans in Britain and the Continent.
J. Gregory Keyes is a bit of an upcoming author in fantasy (well, not really...he has 7 fantasy books published so far and others related to Star Wars). His first duology was really good (starting with the The Waterborn: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345403932/qid=1068972991/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-4132122-0237543?v=glance&s=books). His ideas are different, and he writes well. He does both unconventional and conventional fantasy as well as crossings over into that nebulous zone between sci-fi and fantasy. In that way, he's similar to Gene Wolfe. I think his work will get better with age, unlike many authors, who seem to lose it (R.J. for example). For fun fantasy/sci-fi, look at the Age of Unreason tetralogy: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345433785/qid=1068972991/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/104-4132122-0237543?v=glance&s=books And here's his The Briar King, which has received excellent reviews: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345440668/qid=1068972991/sr=12-7/104-4132122-0237543?v=glance&s=books
I know this was long...but ultimately this helps the cause for fantasy literacy. So spread the good word. 
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Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:13 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Mickey Zucker Riechard (sp?) first Reinshi trilogy is pretty good also. As well as Elizabeth Moon's "Deeds of Paksanarian" Trilogy.
There following works are not as good in my opinion. I might have to check out some of your recomendations also.
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:35 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Good calls on both of those, Roqua.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Michael Moorcock yet. I didn't particularly like the Elric saga, but it's generally considered a staple for fantasy readers.
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=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
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Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:50 am |
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cwey
Village Leader
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 95
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quote:
Originally posted by Roqua
Mickey Zucker Riechard (sp?) first Reinshi trilogy is pretty good also. As well as Elizabeth Moon's "Deeds of Paksanarian" Trilogy.
There following works are not as good in my opinion. I might have to check out some of your recomendations also.
Its Mickey Zucker Reichert 
Yeah his first Renshai Trilogy is good but the rest is not so good imo....
And Carol Berg's Rai-Kirah trilogy(Transformation, Revelation and Restoration) is good too. |
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Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:34 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Roqua
Not liking the characters I see as a positive.
Well, if I don't like the characters and I don't particularly like the story, then I stop reading. I've got the same problem with computer games. If I don't care, why keep reading or playing? *shrug*
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:54 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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That's partly my problem with Martin. Ok... great... they're just people. Fine. I can live with that.... and I liked the first book in a dark fantasy kind of way. Mostly, after the Jordan 'follow a series for almost half my life' thing, I'm waiting for SOFAI to be done and in paperback before continuing forward.
I find Martin's writing style to be nearly identical to Jordan's, so I don't get the distinction hardcore fans in either camp make. Martin applies grit where Jordan tugs braids or describes lace, that's all. *shrug*
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:30 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I couldn't disagree more Xen, Martin and Jordan are night and day. Martin extremely characterizes and is very unpredictible where Jordan's characters are extremely thin and predictible (at least to me).
I don't see how anyone could ever confuse Martin or Jordan. I would pick up the book "Legends" edeited by Robert Silverstien (sp?), it is a short story compelation by todays "top" fantasy authors. It is a lot clearer which authors can write when they are challenged with a short story--I think that only Martin and Williams passed the test in my opinion (I havent read King's, or aboutt half the short stories in it yet though, but i did read and was dissapointed by the ones I knew like Fiest and Jordan, etc).
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:16 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I was thinking more in terms of world depth, verbosity (Jordan edges out Martin there... only Tolkien was more long winded, of all the fantasy I've read), and sentence structure/paragraph layout. Character wise ... yes, Martin beats the pants off of Jordan. Jordan's characters are simple ideals embodied... Martins are trainwrecks (in other words, far more believabe).
Part of why some people love and others hate Martin's work. On one hand, the characters are incredibly detailed. On the other ... few of them have any truly redeeming qualities (note: I have only read a Game of Thrones).
As for Legends... as usual, Jordan went over. New Spring was more than 300 pages and had to be editted down to 100. The full version is being released in February.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:50 pm |
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Ican
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 185
Location: UK |
G.R.R Martin's books are dark,intricate and full of sarcasm and black humour. He is not afraid to show us all aspects of human behaviour/society.
Personally I like this style ....it is gritty and "real". Every book I read now seems "lite" in comparison ..... diluted.
For those who prefer something more "beautiful" to read ...you may want to check out Guy Gavriel Kay. His writing style is very elegant and thought provoking. Tigana is a good example of this.
If you like good characterisation....a figure you can relate with, then Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy is worth a try. |
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Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:14 pm |
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