RPGDot Network    
   

 
 
Project Entropia
Display full image
Pic of the moment
More
pics from the gallery
 
 
Site Navigation

Main
   News
   Forums

Games
   Games Database
   Top 100
   Release List
   Support Files

Features
   Reviews
   Previews
   Interviews
   Editorials
   Diaries
   Misc

Download
   Gallery
   Music
   Screenshots
   Videos

Miscellaneous
   Staff Members
   Privacy Statement

FAQ
Members
Usergroups
Is the rest function too powerful in NWN?
  View previous topic :: View next topic
RPGDot Forums > Neverwinter Nights - General

Author Thread
Lintra
Elf Friend
Elf Friend




Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES
Is the rest function too powerful in NWN?
   

I have yet to play a mage past L3, but from what I've read and seen in MP mode mages seem too strong. The penalty for blowing off all your spells is to sit and rest for a little while - some penalty.

In fact the rest option seems too strong. 100% healing and full spell restoration with no chance to be interupted (at least I havn't been so far). In SP is seems that no matter how "hot" the chase you can always rest. In the prelude to the game I rested twice while the acadamy was under attack - with NO penalty!!

In MP mode it "feels" like the fighter types are getting the short end of the stick. After a good fight they are ready to take their large HP pools and push on, but they have to cool their jets for a few minutes while the *real* fire power reloads - so the fighter (not being dumb) rests too. This makes balancing very tough on the DM since to make a fight challenging he has to plan encounters that bring the party close to death from full strength, much harder than slowly chipping away at them. It is therefore very easy to err on the side of *too* much strength and kill the party off unintentionally.

When in SP mode, I tend to play as if there is always a clock running and I will fail if I take to long. I dread every rest period, and try to push on with out one as long as possible. Return trips to Tyr's Temple are when my ranger is overloaded or has some incurable malady and no scrolls of restoration. This is my way of dealing with the rest issue and returning a sense of living on the edge to the game.

What do the rest of you think? Do you feel the rest is too powerful? How do you deal with it if you do?
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless=
Post Thu Jul 18, 2002 8:19 pm
 View user's profile
OhBrandi
The Pun-Slayer
The Pun-Slayer




Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 1038
Location: Somewhere this side of sanity.
   

I wondering if you aren't bugged. I can only rest when there are no enemies around. If I hide behind a wall and an enemy comes within sight, sound or 'feel' distance, my rest is interrupted.
_________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
Thanks, JM

=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Neverwinter Nights Co-Moderator=
Post Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:13 pm
 View user's profile
Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Eagle's Shadow




Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada
   

You're right OhBrandi, but I don'T think Lintra is bugged. What he means is that it's VERY easy to find places to rest once everything in the close vascinity has been dispatched.

Now, is the rest option too powerful? Yes, definately. Is there a solution to it? Yes, there is, but a madoule has to be built for it.

You can make entire areas a "no rest" area. It's a drastic solution, I agree. But it's a damn good one! It forces everyone to be more careful I assure you. I haven't used this in my latest module because I thought it was for level 1 chars and it might be a little overkill to impose that. But you guys haven't been to the next few maps yet
In short, I'm a big fan of resting at a time and place where it is convenient to rest. If a module is well constructed and has areas small enough (but not too small) and challenging enough to be able to make it through without needing to rest, then that would be the best way I think. Then you would see mages being more careful about the way they spend their spells, and you would see fighters make much more of a difference once the mages are out of them. But again, the module's areas have to be very well balanced for that to work.

EDIT: the more I think about this, the more I think you have a real good point there Lintra. You know, I can't count how many times I've played with a wizard that all of a sudden would call up for a rest, rearrange his prepared spells to fit the situation, and then go on. Remember when you used to play AD&D (I'm sorry but for me it's been a LOOOOONG time!! )? Remember how a wizard had to be extra careful about which spells he commited to memory before he started adventuring? You don't get that here since he can always stop in the middle of everything, scrap whichever spells he had in mind, and choose new ones before resting for a minute and then go on. That's too easy for them I think. It dumbs down the challenge, especially at higher levels.
_________________
=Proud Father of a new gamer GIRL!=
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Worshiper of the Written Word=
Post Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:52 pm
 View user's profile
The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Tempered Warlord




Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast
Timer?
   

Lintra,

I noticed this as well. I was quite shocked; I was expecting to have four dire spiders itching to interrupt me if I decided to take a brief rest in a crypt, like in Icewind Dale, but that's far from the case....just free resting with zero penalty. I find this decent for the SP module, but I think DMs should definitely make some "no rest" zones. Imo, it'll make combat more exciting. I mostly play wizards, so it's a plus to get all my spells back after a brief rest, but maybe there should be a timer inbetween rests.....say 10-20mins? The timer would get rid of wizard tricks - like hitting foes with ice storm, casting haste, zipping off to safety, resting, and repeat. I'm sure a timer wouldn't be the best way to deal with the issue, but it's a thought.
_________________
= Member of The Nonflamers' Guild =
= Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth =
= Not just a member, but a client of The Followers of Righteousness =


"Stand back...there's a hurricane coming through..."


Last edited by The Hurricane on Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Jul 18, 2002 11:16 pm
 View user's profile
Val
Risen From Ashes
Risen From Ashes




Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA
   

That, or the DM can drop a dragon on them while they are resting.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:57 am
 View user's profile
The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Tempered Warlord




Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast
   

quote:
Originally posted by Val
That, or the DM can drop a dragon on them while they are resting.


No...our DMs our Chaotic Good by nature.
_________________
= Member of The Nonflamers' Guild =
= Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth =
= Not just a member, but a client of The Followers of Righteousness =


"Stand back...there's a hurricane coming through..."
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:01 am
 View user's profile
TheLonePaladin
Mighty Warrior
Mighty Warrior




Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 1808
Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: rest too powerful?
   

short answer: yes.

long answer: HELL yes!


_________________
=Follower of Righteousness=
"Though the gates that stand between the mortal world and the immortal Realm of Chaos are now closed to me, still I would rather die having glimpsed eternity than never to have stirred the cold furrow of mortal life.
I embrace death without regret as I embraced life without fear."
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:03 am
 View user's profile
Val
Risen From Ashes
Risen From Ashes




Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA
   

quote:
Originally posted by The Hurricane
quote:
Originally posted by Val
That, or the DM can drop a dragon on them while they are resting.


No...our DMs our Chaotic Good by nature.

Which DMs?
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:42 am
 View user's profile
Val
Risen From Ashes
Risen From Ashes




Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA
   

Update!!
Looks like someone is already working on this problem for us! Click here!
I think I'll download it and take a look through it. It looks promising.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:26 am
 View user's profile
Lintra
Elf Friend
Elf Friend




Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES
   

quote:
Originally posted by Val
Update!!
Looks like someone is already working on this problem for us! Click here!
I think I'll download it and take a look through it. It looks promising.


Great! So I am *not* the only one <whew>.

@Val - Have you looked at it yet? From the quick read I did it looked like it is not quite done yet, but the description sounds good.
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless=
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:36 pm
 View user's profile
mDrop
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk
   

That seems like a good script. In addition, there is a quite large script that alters the rules in many ways, towards the real hard-core D&D 3rd edition rules. If I remember correctly, it imposes restrictions and penalties on resting. The homepage is here. Looks really interesting, I think I'll use it on my modules, atleast some parts. Good rules for dying too.

Last night, when we were playing online and I was a bard, it seemed kind of strange. I was able to blow everything I got in one encounter, wait 30sec and do it all over again. Bard's spells are not necessarily as powerful as wizard's, so I can only imagine the destructive power a 12th level wizard would have when getting to use everything at once. One good restriction could be to reduce the game time it takes to rest and make it possible to rest only once in 24 hours. How many people you know can sleep 20h in a day? Well, I can but that's an exception
_________________
"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
- George Bernard Shaw

- Member of The Nonflamers' Guild -
- Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth -
- Worshiper of Written Word -
- Proud supporter of E.H.U.A.O -
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:31 pm
 View user's profile
sauron38
Rara Avis
Rara Avis




Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum
   

Hmm... as a specialized wizard, I know that if I needed to, I could fill virtually all of my spell slots up with offensive spells, and only have to rest once in a long while... (In a pinch, I could drain my 50-fireball staff ) I also use an amulet that grants me a couple extra slots. And I never leave town without a half-dozen scrolls... though they are all level 9 spells, that I cannot yet memorize, I could use them if there was sufficient need [“Quick, Timestop... the pizza guy is here!”]. If I used spells like Shades and Shadow Conjuration, I could have one spell slot that has up to four effects (in the case of shades, Stoneskin, Summon Shadow Lord, Cone of Cold, and Wall of Fire) Even if I use up all of my spells, I will not fret! My tank-style familiar should be able to cover me while I use the feat Combat Casting to negate a 4 penalty to my concentration checks to turn into an Umber Hulk and beat on stuff with triple my normal number of HP (maybe just double ) Finally, if all of my spells are gone... my familiar dead, I will still have an AC of 30 and a magic, daze inducing Rapier +1, a scroll of Tenser's Transformation to boost my lowly 11 damage up a bit, and all of the damage reduction and immunities of Shadow Shield, Greater Stoneskin, and Extended Ethereal Visage. That’s 10/+1 for shadow shield; +5 Natural AC; and Immunity to Death Magic and Negative Energy, 20/+5 for stoneskin, and 20/+3 and immunity to level 2 or lower spells with Ethereal Visage and some concealment. All last for a long enough time period to be of great use.

That’s assuming that I do not use shields like:
Elemental Shield (50% cold/fire resist that also attacks attackers)
Energy Buffer (40/- against elemental damage)
Globe of Invulnerability (Immune to all level 4 or less spells)
Protection from spells (+8 to all saving throws VS. spells)
Greater Spell Mantle (Absorbs up to 1d12 + 10 spell levels)
Mind Blank (Wide Range Immunity to Mind-affecting spells)
Clarity (Removes and protects from Sleep, Confusion, Stun, and Charm effects)
Improved Invisibility (Invisible, then when the caster becomes un-invisible, she still retains 50% concealment)
Mage Armour (+4 to AC)
Resistance (+1 to all saving throws)
Protection from Alignment (+2 AC, +2 Saving thrown VS. creatures of a certain alignment.)

I have not calculated the powers of any of these if they were to have any Metamagic feats applied.

I don’t think that rest is too powerful... I think that wizards are too powerful.
_________________
Make good choices.
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:14 pm
 View user's profile
Val
Risen From Ashes
Risen From Ashes




Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA
   

quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
@Val - Have you looked at it yet? From the quick read I did it looked like it is not quite done yet, but the description sounds good.

Er... no. What do you think I do all night long? Look through someone else's NWN scripts? Give me at least a few days to take more than cursory at this. And please, give me time to sleep too.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:29 pm
 View user's profile
Lintra
Elf Friend
Elf Friend




Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES
   

quote:
Originally posted by Val
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
@Val - Have you looked at it yet? From the quick read I did it looked like it is not quite done yet, but the description sounds good.

Er... no. What do you think I do all night long? Look through someone else's NWN scripts? Give me at least a few days to take more than cursory at this. And please, give me time to sleep too.


Oh come on, sleep is for sissys Take Xen for example - he's going on less than 2 hrs today

Seriously - I have not looked at *any* NWN scripts - I do not know how hard it is or isn't. Sorry - patience is not always my strong suit
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless=
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:39 pm
 View user's profile
Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Eagle's Shadow




Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada
   

I'll certainly look at it tonight myself. It looks very interesting! I think the only thing they say is not complete are the random encounters involved with resting. The random encounters will spawn monsters only from levels 1-4, meaning that level 10 chars would have a field day at resisting these monsters, unless they're really low on health, and even there...
_________________
=Proud Father of a new gamer GIRL!=
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Worshiper of the Written Word=
Post Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:10 pm
 View user's profile


Goto page 1, 2  Next
All times are GMT.
The time now is Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:41 am



Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
 
 
 
All original content of this site is copyrighted by RPGWatch. Copying or reproducing of any part of this site is strictly prohibited. Taking anything from this site without authorisation will be considered stealing and we'll be forced to visit you and jump on your legs until you give it back.