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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
| Is the rest function too powerful in NWN? |
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I have yet to play a mage past L3, but from what I've read and seen in MP mode mages seem too strong. The penalty for blowing off all your spells is to sit and rest for a little while - some penalty.
In fact the rest option seems too strong. 100% healing and full spell restoration with no chance to be interupted (at least I havn't been so far). In SP is seems that no matter how "hot" the chase you can always rest. In the prelude to the game I rested twice while the acadamy was under attack - with NO penalty!!
In MP mode it "feels" like the fighter types are getting the short end of the stick. After a good fight they are ready to take their large HP pools and push on, but they have to cool their jets for a few minutes while the *real* fire power reloads - so the fighter (not being dumb) rests too. This makes balancing very tough on the DM since to make a fight challenging he has to plan encounters that bring the party close to death from full strength, much harder than slowly chipping away at them. It is therefore very easy to err on the side of *too* much strength and kill the party off unintentionally.
When in SP mode, I tend to play as if there is always a clock running and I will fail if I take to long. I dread every rest period, and try to push on with out one as long as possible. Return trips to Tyr's Temple are when my ranger is overloaded or has some incurable malady and no scrolls of restoration. This is my way of dealing with the rest issue and returning a sense of living on the edge to the game.
What do the rest of you think? Do you feel the rest is too powerful? How do you deal with it if you do?
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 8:19 pm |
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OhBrandi
The Pun-Slayer
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 1038
Location: Somewhere this side of sanity. |
I wondering if you aren't bugged. I can only rest when there are no enemies around. If I hide behind a wall and an enemy comes within sight, sound or 'feel' distance, my rest is interrupted.
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:13 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
You're right OhBrandi, but I don'T think Lintra is bugged. What he means is that it's VERY easy to find places to rest once everything in the close vascinity has been dispatched.
Now, is the rest option too powerful? Yes, definately. Is there a solution to it? Yes, there is, but a madoule has to be built for it.
You can make entire areas a "no rest" area. It's a drastic solution, I agree. But it's a damn good one! It forces everyone to be more careful I assure you. I haven't used this in my latest module because I thought it was for level 1 chars and it might be a little overkill to impose that. But you guys haven't been to the next few maps yet 
In short, I'm a big fan of resting at a time and place where it is convenient to rest. If a module is well constructed and has areas small enough (but not too small) and challenging enough to be able to make it through without needing to rest, then that would be the best way I think. Then you would see mages being more careful about the way they spend their spells, and you would see fighters make much more of a difference once the mages are out of them. But again, the module's areas have to be very well balanced for that to work.
EDIT: the more I think about this, the more I think you have a real good point there Lintra. You know, I can't count how many times I've played with a wizard that all of a sudden would call up for a rest, rearrange his prepared spells to fit the situation, and then go on. Remember when you used to play AD&D (I'm sorry but for me it's been a LOOOOONG time!! )? Remember how a wizard had to be extra careful about which spells he commited to memory before he started adventuring? You don't get that here since he can always stop in the middle of everything, scrap whichever spells he had in mind, and choose new ones before resting for a minute and then go on. That's too easy for them I think. It dumbs down the challenge, especially at higher levels.
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:52 pm |
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The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
Lintra,
I noticed this as well. I was quite shocked; I was expecting to have four dire spiders itching to interrupt me if I decided to take a brief rest in a crypt, like in Icewind Dale, but that's far from the case....just free resting with zero penalty. I find this decent for the SP module, but I think DMs should definitely make some "no rest" zones. Imo, it'll make combat more exciting. I mostly play wizards, so it's a plus to get all my spells back after a brief rest, but maybe there should be a timer inbetween rests.....say 10-20mins? The timer would get rid of wizard tricks - like hitting foes with ice storm, casting haste, zipping off to safety, resting, and repeat. I'm sure a timer wouldn't be the best way to deal with the issue, but it's a thought.
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Last edited by The Hurricane on Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 11:16 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
That, or the DM can drop a dragon on them while they are resting. 
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:57 am |
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The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
That, or the DM can drop a dragon on them while they are resting.
No...our DMs our Chaotic Good by nature. 
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:01 am |
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TheLonePaladin
Mighty Warrior
Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 1808
Location: San Francisco, CA |
short answer: yes.
long answer: HELL yes!
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:03 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by The Hurricane
quote:
Originally posted by Val
That, or the DM can drop a dragon on them while they are resting.
No...our DMs our Chaotic Good by nature.
Which DMs? 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:42 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Update!!
Looks like someone is already working on this problem for us! Click here!
I think I'll download it and take a look through it. It looks promising.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:26 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
Update!!
Looks like someone is already working on this problem for us! Click here!
I think I'll download it and take a look through it. It looks promising.
Great! So I am *not* the only one <whew>.
@Val - Have you looked at it yet? From the quick read I did it looked like it is not quite done yet, but the description sounds good.
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:36 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
That seems like a good script. In addition, there is a quite large script that alters the rules in many ways, towards the real hard-core D&D 3rd edition rules. If I remember correctly, it imposes restrictions and penalties on resting. The homepage is here. Looks really interesting, I think I'll use it on my modules, atleast some parts. Good rules for dying too.
Last night, when we were playing online and I was a bard, it seemed kind of strange. I was able to blow everything I got in one encounter, wait 30sec and do it all over again. Bard's spells are not necessarily as powerful as wizard's, so I can only imagine the destructive power a 12th level wizard would have when getting to use everything at once. One good restriction could be to reduce the game time it takes to rest and make it possible to rest only once in 24 hours. How many people you know can sleep 20h in a day? Well, I can but that's an exception
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:31 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
Hmm... as a specialized wizard, I know that if I needed to, I could fill virtually all of my spell slots up with offensive spells, and only have to rest once in a long while... (In a pinch, I could drain my 50-fireball staff ) I also use an amulet that grants me a couple extra slots. And I never leave town without a half-dozen scrolls... though they are all level 9 spells, that I cannot yet memorize, I could use them if there was sufficient need [“Quick, Timestop... the pizza guy is here!”]. If I used spells like Shades and Shadow Conjuration, I could have one spell slot that has up to four effects (in the case of shades, Stoneskin, Summon Shadow Lord, Cone of Cold, and Wall of Fire) Even if I use up all of my spells, I will not fret! My tank-style familiar should be able to cover me while I use the feat Combat Casting to negate a 4 penalty to my concentration checks to turn into an Umber Hulk and beat on stuff with triple my normal number of HP (maybe just double ) Finally, if all of my spells are gone... my familiar dead, I will still have an AC of 30 and a magic, daze inducing Rapier +1, a scroll of Tenser's Transformation to boost my lowly 11 damage up a bit, and all of the damage reduction and immunities of Shadow Shield, Greater Stoneskin, and Extended Ethereal Visage. That’s 10/+1 for shadow shield; +5 Natural AC; and Immunity to Death Magic and Negative Energy, 20/+5 for stoneskin, and 20/+3 and immunity to level 2 or lower spells with Ethereal Visage and some concealment. All last for a long enough time period to be of great use.
That’s assuming that I do not use shields like:
Elemental Shield (50% cold/fire resist that also attacks attackers)
Energy Buffer (40/- against elemental damage)
Globe of Invulnerability (Immune to all level 4 or less spells)
Protection from spells (+8 to all saving throws VS. spells)
Greater Spell Mantle (Absorbs up to 1d12 + 10 spell levels)
Mind Blank (Wide Range Immunity to Mind-affecting spells)
Clarity (Removes and protects from Sleep, Confusion, Stun, and Charm effects)
Improved Invisibility (Invisible, then when the caster becomes un-invisible, she still retains 50% concealment)
Mage Armour (+4 to AC)
Resistance (+1 to all saving throws)
Protection from Alignment (+2 AC, +2 Saving thrown VS. creatures of a certain alignment.)
I have not calculated the powers of any of these if they were to have any Metamagic feats applied.
I don’t think that rest is too powerful... I think that wizards are too powerful.
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:14 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
@Val - Have you looked at it yet? From the quick read I did it looked like it is not quite done yet, but the description sounds good.
Er... no. What do you think I do all night long? Look through someone else's NWN scripts? Give me at least a few days to take more than cursory at this. And please, give me time to sleep too. 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:29 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
@Val - Have you looked at it yet? From the quick read I did it looked like it is not quite done yet, but the description sounds good.
Er... no. What do you think I do all night long? Look through someone else's NWN scripts? Give me at least a few days to take more than cursory at this. And please, give me time to sleep too.
Oh come on, sleep is for sissys Take Xen for example - he's going on less than 2 hrs today 
Seriously - I have not looked at *any* NWN scripts - I do not know how hard it is or isn't. Sorry - patience is not always my strong suit 
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:39 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
I'll certainly look at it tonight myself. It looks very interesting! I think the only thing they say is not complete are the random encounters involved with resting. The random encounters will spawn monsters only from levels 1-4, meaning that level 10 chars would have a field day at resisting these monsters, unless they're really low on health, and even there...
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:10 pm |
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