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Lairor
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 22
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| So why all the hype behind this game? |
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I'm not here to troll or anything, so don't get the wrong idea.
I've had this game since it's release here in the States and I just can't get into it. I think it mostly has to do with the controls. I just don't see how anyone could play this game with it's control sceme without cheating. In my 23 years of playing cRPGs I have never came across a game with controls that are half as bad as they are in this game. I've spent more time fighting the controls in this game then actually playing it - I find them so bad that I've been avoiding any and all combat because of them. Sorry for the little rant about them....I'm sure you guys and gals here have heard them all before, but it's one of the main reasons why I don't understand the hype behind this game.
And, yes. This game is hyped. Goto any gaming-fourms and ask for a good RPG for the PC and there will be at least 5 people that will recommend this one claming it's the best game ever. Heh the whole reason why I bought this game was from the recommendation for a couple of friends I know. Now I wish I never listened to them. Not only am I out the $50 this game cost me, but also the 40+ hours I had to invest just to find out that I don't like this game at all.
This last weekend I decided to give this game one last chance before I threw it away. I'd say that I've put in a good 15 - 20 hours since I started playing Friday night and I'm still in chapter 1 and my character is only level 2. Everyone I know that's played this game says to get to chapter 2, because that's when the game really starts to pick up....but, I'll be damned if I can get myself there. I'm so bored with this game right now. I can kill crap because of the controls, and because I can't kill anything I'm stuck at level 2 with no way of advancing the storyline because I have to be level 5 before I can join a camp. I've done all the quests for the Sect camp just to find out that you have to be level 5 before you can forward the storyline....talk about lame.
I've tried so hard to like this game. Tried to get into it 6 different times...when most games I'll try once. I just don't see why this game is hyped. |
Tue May 17, 2005 7:07 am |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Welcome to the forums Lairor,
Unbeknown to you and the majority of players, the game is testing you for your "resolve" for your "worthiness" - and behavior, believe me. Some would argue this as rubbish, i've played the game since it first became available, and i am still playing. I also left the game half complete the first time. The default control system to me is the best, i can think of no improvement that i could suggest to them, i can almost play blindfolded, smooth as silk, faultless, analyse yourself again and see if you can get to terms with yourself, if not then sell the game to a more deserving player, some guys cannot get hold of this game, it will one day be rare collectors item.
This game is designed to be a reflection of yourself, some players kill everything, some do not. I once completed the game without killing anything (very hard) but most enjoyable. 
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Tue May 17, 2005 9:16 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
I would hazard to guess that you might be taking on beasties that are a tad too hard for your level at this point. Try some of the weaker ones.
The controls will grow on you. They made me a little crazy at first as well, but then I got used to them.
The biggest selling point (IMO) for Gothic are the NPC and the world they create around them. They simply drip attitude. I love the interactions ... and the first part of the game (before joining a camp) is the most open ended portion. Spend your time exploring the world and getting to know the characters that populate it. This will pay off later (and also makes the game more enjoyable).
Anyway, don't give up on it too quickly!
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Tue May 17, 2005 12:10 pm |
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Lairor
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 22
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quote:
Welcome to the forums Lairor,
Unbeknown to you and the majority of players, the game is testing you for your "resolve" for your "worthiness" - and behavior, believe me.
Uh... okay. That makes no sense, but whatever.
quote:
The default control system to me is the best, i can think of no improvement that i could suggest to themi can almost play blindfolded, smooth as silk, faultless, analyse yourself again and see if you can get to terms with yourself
I can think of a bunch of different ways they could have used to improve the controls. One that springs right to my mind is the ability to target-lock on your enemy so you don't have to fight the controls to keep your enemy in front of you. Another one would be getting rid of the action button for combat. If I have my weapon drawn then that means I'm ready to kill something. I shouldn't have to press an action key and then a movement key just to swing my weapon; let alone press them everytime I want to swing it. A system like Daggerfalls would have been a whole lot better. You know press the left mouse button to attack while using the mouse to control which way you want your weapon to swing. The right mouse button could be used to block.
quote:
I would hazard to guess that you might be taking on beasties that are a tad too hard for your level at this point. Try some of the weaker ones.
Umm...not really. I've only tried to kill Scavengers, Molerats, and Bloodfies. Bloodfies are the only things that really kill me, and they kill me well before I can even get my character to swing his weapon. Scavengers and Molerats get me down to like 10% of my max health before I can finally kill one.
quote:
The controls will grow on you. They made me a little crazy at first as well, but then I got used to them.
Lucky you then. As I said I've been trying to get into this game for years now. I actually think I hate the controls more now then I did when I first played the game. I just don't see how a game with primitive controls like this one could ever get released.
quote:
The biggest selling point (IMO) for Gothic are the NPC and the world they create around them. They simply drip attitude. I love the interactions ... and the first part of the game (before joining a camp) is the most open ended portion. Spend your time exploring the world and getting to know the characters that populate it. This will pay off later (and also makes the game more enjoyable).
Really? So far each and every NPC seems so dull and lifeless. Out of all the NPCs that I've met in the Old Camp, New Camp, and Sect Camp and I can't recall a single one that has stood out with "attitude".
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Anyway, don't give up on it too quickly!
Thanks, but I don't think I'm giving up too quickly. As I've said a few times now. I've had this game since it's US release date and have tried to get into it a bunch of different times. This time I'm going to at least get myself to chapter 2 and see if the game picks up, but I don't even know if I'm going to be able to do that. Everytime I try to load the game up it feels like I'm heading into work. |
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Tue May 17, 2005 9:41 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Welcome to the forum! 
The world and the NPCs are indeed the main selling point. The story is the typical fantasy stuff and character development is relatively simple.
"primitive controls"?
What exactly is primitve about them? Of course they can be improved, but "primitive"? They´re absolutely simple (except for the trading).
(Ctrl or the LMB) plus forward does almost everything. There´s nothing to think about - if you want to pick something up, talk to somebody, use something, select the item in the inventory ... use LMB + forward.
During combat the LMB tells the game you want to do an action. Keep it pressed and choose one of 4 options (the directional keys). Later the 3 aggressive options can be used as combos. The critical point is that the timing is essential. Mindless clicking doesn´t help.
Right-handed players should use the alternative setup (ASDW + mouse).
Do you have a gamepad?
quote:
I'd say that I've put in a good 15 - 20 hours since I started playing Friday night and I'm still in chapter 1 and my character is only level 2.
Sorry, but this sounds like you absolutely don´t understand who & where you are in the game and what you have to do.
You are a weak, unexperienced newbie in a prison full of mean characters and dangerous creatures. You´re at the bottom of the food chain. Of course you loose if you fight! Stay out of trouble until you find an armour. You can either buy one or get a free one in the free mine.
Being only at level 2 after 15 hours is almost impossible. Even if you only killed 30 animals, did a few UPS-quests and found the 2 NPCs who escort you to the 2 other 2 camps you can´t avoid to be at least at level 4.
Stay out of trouble in the beginning. Play it like an adventure and put the first few level-ups into strength. A bit more strength, a better weapon and a better armour directly add to attack and defense. They make a huge difference.
If you think the open ended nature of chapter 1 could be the problem you could try our quickstart savegames. They solve chapter 1 while keeping as many skill points as possible. You only have to join a camp and distribute your points.
You know JemyM´s FAQ, I hope?
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Tue May 17, 2005 10:52 pm |
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Ratavuk
Noble Knight
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 213
Location: I-Net |
Welcome to the boards.
quote:
One that springs right to my mind is the ability to target-lock on your enemy so you don't have to fight the controls to keep your enemy in front of you
That's one thing PB does better in Gothic II. I think Gothic II would suit you better.
I remember when i first played Gothic that i was a little bit upset too and was struggling with the controls because they were so different. I had to go to the internet to learn how to use them.
But after some time i got really used to them and now i don't want to miss them.
The problem with Gothic is that the beginning of the game is harder than the end but that's been sorted out a little bit with the sequel. You must have a humble attitude at the beginning and not that of a superhero who thinks that he can fight everything. It's very important that you talk to the people at first and try to do every possible quest you can find. |
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Wed May 18, 2005 9:22 am |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
@Ratavuk,
Gothic has focus target locking, also target-skip selecting/cycling, its all in there, it's the same with G2. 
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Wed May 18, 2005 1:57 pm |
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Ratavuk
Noble Knight
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 213
Location: I-Net |
Are you sure ? But something is different between the two games. When i'm in a battle in Gothic i remember that i had to always turn myself and in Gothic II i turned myself automatic. I've to check that again when i'm in the mood. |
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Wed May 18, 2005 4:28 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Yes Ratavuk, you are quite right there are subtle differences, but i was meaning, that providing you setup your keyboard as preferred, when you face an opponent within approx' 30 degrees of facing "square on" (directly facing) the foe, just by pressing the left ctrl key you will "self correct" and lock onto any target of choice within range.
This means for example if there was a group of say 6 orcs some distance away, you could choose any one of them to target with a bow. The same with a melee weapon, as long as you keep the left ctrl key pressed you can continue with the attack no matter what the other orcs are doing, pretty good control in my books. Still pressing the left ctrl key - by pressing the space bar, pc-hero will fetch up the enabled runes/scrolls cyclic menu, you have the full control at any one time, bow - melee - magic .....sometimes i press three/four keys at once (to view etc').... beautiful. 
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Wed May 18, 2005 8:07 pm |
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Lairor
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 22
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Well I've made it past chapter 1. I'm at the start of chapter 3 -- got my ass handed to me to the first Orc I had to fight -- actually and the game still hasn't hooked me. What I don't get is why all that work just to join a camp when you're just going to have to work for the Sect Camp anyways. I ended up joining the Old Camp just so I could boss some diggers around and take their ore from them 10 at a time, but I don't even see an option for that.
Oh well. It seems like I'm about half-way done with the game so I'm just going to stick it out and hope the game gets better. |
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Thu May 19, 2005 5:47 am |
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Rordog
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 111
Location: kelowna |
@Lairor
Perhaps you like the depth of the NPC's in morrowind as a comparison point.
This game is not for everyone.
If you haven't gotten the hang of the controls after "years" of trying then I guess holding the left mouse button and pushing one keyboard button at the same time (with your other hand) is too difficult.
The majority of negative comments stem from the control system. Honestly the first time I played G1 it was a warez copy with no sound or videos. I don't support piracy, but I had never heard of the game and couldn't find a demo or a copy of it at any store. Anyway, I figured out the controls in about 10 minutes with no manual or any other help. The secret is to actually commit to learning them. Oh yeah, I found a copy a short time later and purchased my all-time favorite rpg before I had even finish the first chapter.
One of the best things about gothic is the immersive combat. A weaker character can defeat tough oppenents if they are good with the controls.
Play a game like diablo, divine divinity, sacred, or dungeon seige. They are all entertaining and a whole lot less complicated.
Gothic is not for everyone, my room mates won't play it no matter how much I talk it up.
later, rordog
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Winning isn't everything it is the only thing! |
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Thu May 19, 2005 6:14 am |
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Lairor
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 22
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quote:
Perhaps you like the depth of the NPC's in morrowind as a comparison point
Umm...no Morrowind's NPC suck to high hell, but I'll be more then happy to compare them to Ultima 7's NPCs.
quote:
If you haven't gotten the hang of the controls after "years" of trying then I guess holding the left mouse button and pushing one keyboard button at the same time (with your other hand) is too difficult.
No that part of combat is actually easy. It's everything else that makes the controls bad. Trying to move around while in combat is next to impossible. Having to navigate the inverntory screen in combat to drink a potion is impossbile. Keeping a target lock on an emeny is harder then it should be. My main gripe about the games control sceme is the fact that you have to use your movement keys to swing your weapon. Because of that there's no way to move and attack at the same time.
quote:
Play a game like diablo, divine divinity, sacred, or dungeon seige. They are all entertaining and a whole lot less complicated.
Uh...thanks, but no thanks. I hate games like Diablo, Sacred, and Dungeon Siege and I don't see how they are even considered RPGs. I'm more of a turn-based fan. My favorite RPG is probably a toss up between Wizardry 7, Wizardry 8, and Might and Magic 3. |
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Thu May 19, 2005 7:48 am |
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Ratavuk
Noble Knight
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 213
Location: I-Net |
quote:
Having to navigate the inverntory screen in combat to drink a potion is impossbile.
Are you sure that you hate games like diablo ? Because there it's pretty easy to drink a portion during combat which is imho unrealistic.
And that's the point in Gothic. The devs didn't want you to drink potions during combat because they wanted to make it realistic (or perhaps more difficult)
But if you want to change that you can edit the Gothic.ini so that you can drink potions with hotkeys enabled. Oh wait, i think that's only possible in G2. I told you that G2 would suit you better |
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Thu May 19, 2005 8:16 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Seems the Gothic series is simply not compatible to your gaming taste. Shit happens. Sell it on eBay. With a bit of luck you´ll get a surprising amount of money for it.
I loved Ultima 7 and hated Wizardry 7. Sometimes it just doesn´t click.
_________________
Webmaster GothicDot |
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Thu May 19, 2005 11:30 am |
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Lairor
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 22
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Yeah, I think I'll sell it on eBay once I'm done with it. I try to finish all the games that I buy, because if I don't then I feel like I'm wasting my money. If I can finish Lionheart then I should be able to finish Gothic.
It's really a shame tho. I do like the setting. I'm starting to think that it's the crappy NPC voice-overs that's making them seem so likeless to me. |
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Thu May 19, 2005 7:18 pm |
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