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| who do you typically side with |
| conservatives (republicans, right wingers) |
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47% |
[ 8 ] |
| liberals (democrats, left wingers) |
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29% |
[ 5 ] |
| neither |
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23% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
txiabxyooj
Fox Spirit
Joined: 06 Dec 2001
Posts: 971
Location: here, there & everywhere |
| american politics, anyone? |
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i have been listening to a number of conservative & liberal talk radio stations lately. i usually listen to the liberals in the morning & the conservatives in the afternoon. each party seems to be taking opposite lines on each political topic that arises. but, there is one similarity. each side seems convinced that the other side is full of crazies & wackos who are out to destroy america and the world. i usually find that i can agree with the logic of both sides & understand their arguments in regards to any political debate. sometimes i agree with the conservatives & sometimes the liberals. however, i find all the finger pointing and name calling tiresome. each side seems to think the best way to prove its point is by slandering the other...the left thinks the right is out to rule the world & the right thinks the left is out to rule the world. i am just wondering what other people think of these "political" talk radio shows. ps i am not including art bell because i think he is crazy.  i am thinking of folks like rush, imus, & hanity.
_________________
"The origin of things, if things have an origin, cannot be revealed to me, if revealed at all, until I have travelled very far from it, and many revolutions of the sun must precede my first dawn. The light as it appears hides the candle." --Santayana
=member of the worshippers of the written word=
=member of the Non-flamers' guild= |
Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:44 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
| Re: american politics, anyone? |
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quote:
Originally posted by txiabxyooj
... i find all the finger pointing and name calling tiresome. each side seems to think the best way to prove its point is by slandering the other...the left thinks the right is out to rule the world & the right thinks the left is out to rule the world...
Yeah, definitely tiresome, annoying, tedious, dull, irksome & stupid too (although if i'm politician i would probably do what they are doing anyway - that's what we called politics, isn't it?). I usually listenning to both right or left wings politician or talks, but if i really get annoyed - i prefer ignoring all of them, let them screaming accusing slandering...
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Wed Sep 18, 2002 8:15 pm |
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Roach
SBR Belfry Bat
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 3233
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I’m registered as an independent. I agree with txiabxyooj, I usually disagree with anyone who is strongly right or left wing. If I have to choose, I’d say I agree more with the moderate-conservatives than with any of the other groups, though I very often think even the mod-conservatives are full of crap. So I’ll vote for conservatives, but I wouldn’t say ‘typically.’ |
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Wed Sep 18, 2002 8:30 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
My answer to this question should be obvious. 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Thu Sep 19, 2002 3:19 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
i guess i would be a conservative. actually when it comes down to it, i dont really care...
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www.shadowpool.com
www.darkfallonline.com |
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Thu Sep 19, 2002 3:48 am |
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Myrthos
Spoiler of All Fun
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 1926
Location: Holland |
I don't think the concept of liberal and conservative is universal. From the political system we have in my country I think both the democrat and republican parties would be placed at the right side of the political spectrum. Maybe the democrats are even in the center as most parties that we consider as liberal are near the political center over here.
When it comes down to voting I vote probably left of the center. When it comes to discussing ideas and topics, I don't follow any party, wing or whatever. I usually find there are pros and cons in all arguments of a debate and as such I take the position where the pros outweigh the cons in my opinion. But I always fully realize that there is absolutely nothing that guarantees that a choice is right or wrong. Only history can show us that, so all that remains are educated guesses.
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Kewl quotes:
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Reports Myrthos for making me scared and humbled at the mere sight of his name - kayla |
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Thu Sep 19, 2002 9:41 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
I sympathize with the Social Democrats in my country. But sometimes I agree with conserative or ecological politicians, too.
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Thu Sep 19, 2002 10:59 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
I had to vote neither. In the US both parties are full of enough hot air to fly a WWII battle ship just shy of the stratosphere.
I have not had a presidential candidate to vote for that I had any confidence in since Regan (2nd time, the first time around he scared me). He, at least, was predictible and dependable, and let you know where he stood on issues ... and not change just because it was expedient to so.
I dislike many parts of the conservative platform - stances on the environment, social issues like abortion rights and being in bed with the wacko religious fundies.
I dislike the way the democrats are beholden to the unions, lawyers (in particular the lawyers - our tort is system is really broken - just a strong economy hides how broken it really is), the wacko junk science environmentalists and down right pandering to minorities (playing the race card at the drop of a hat ... hell even before the hat leaves the head).
I *really* disklike Daschle and his blatant posturing and grand standing. But wishy washy, I'll let you know what I'm thinking about when I am good and ready Bush is just as bad .... in a very different way.
In someways I am almost sorry that the plane that crashed in PA didn't take out the capitol building. Then we'd have a clean start ... no that's not true. The power bases I abhor would still be there, so I guess I don't really wish that.
Thank the gods that the voting population will not give a clear mandate to either party - despite what they claim. I love Clinton claiming he had a mandate from the American people ... after getting only about 42% of the active votes (in 92)... which translates to about 30% of registered voters at the time. Some mandate!
Okay, that's my AM rant
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=Just plain clueless= |
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Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:06 pm |
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txiabxyooj
Fox Spirit
Joined: 06 Dec 2001
Posts: 971
Location: here, there & everywhere |
wow, lintra you just summed up many of my frustrations beautifully. the american system is supposed to be based "ideally" on two healthy opposing parties. however, i feel that each party is down right sick & out of control. neither party seems particularly interested in its constinuents nor do they seem in the least open minded. each side has its little tricks that it plays while paying no attention to what is really going on. one of my favorites is the constant media spin game each side is actively participating in. i wish we could get a party that would be as straight & honest as george bush seems to think he is & that was as savvy as tony blair & as business conscious as the owner of virgin.
hey, for the folks from around the world: i would love to hear what every thinks of their own system of government & those running it (you may need to describe basically what form of government you have, i.e. a republic or a parlamentory system, etc.).
_________________
"The origin of things, if things have an origin, cannot be revealed to me, if revealed at all, until I have travelled very far from it, and many revolutions of the sun must precede my first dawn. The light as it appears hides the candle." --Santayana
=member of the worshippers of the written word=
=member of the Non-flamers' guild= |
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Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:41 pm |
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Roach
SBR Belfry Bat
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 3233
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@txiabxyooj Are you suggesting that Ross Perot has no charisma? And what about that decisiveness! 
It does seem that both parties are far more concerned with beating the other than they are with getting things done. |
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Thu Sep 19, 2002 8:08 pm |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
I had to vote neither.
I would have voted neither, but I've taken the typical American way out and not voted at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
I dislike many parts of the conservative platform - stances on the environment, social issues like abortion rights and being in bed with the wacko religious fundies.
I agree 100% with you.
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
I dislike the way the democrats are beholden to the unions, lawyers (in particular the lawyers - our tort is system is really broken - just a strong economy hides how broken it really is), the wacko junk science environmentalists and down right pandering to minorities (playing the race card at the drop of a hat ... hell even before the hat leaves the head).
Democrats are beholden to unions, but are not beholden to lawyers as a whole, any more than the Republicans are (plenty of Republican lawyers out there supporting the right). IMHO, the biggest thing tort reform needs is to get rid of the frivolous lawsuits. I'm not sure how you say a strong economy hides the breaks. There are junk scientists on environmental issues on both sides. And yes, democrats are much more likely to seize on racial issues.
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
In someways I am almost sorry that the plane that crashed in PA didn't take out the capitol building. Then we'd have a clean start ... no that's not true. The power bases I abhor would still be there, so I guess I don't really wish that.
Absolutely. The power bases are much deeper than many people ever suspect. Although I'm not a politician, I'm too close to judges who have to run for election and get the inside scoop on what happens there.
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
Thank the gods that the voting population will not give a clear mandate to either party - despite what they claim. I love Clinton claiming he had a mandate from the American people ... after getting only about 42% of the active votes (in 92)... which translates to about 30% of registered voters at the time. Some mandate!
Agree for the most part. But here in NY, too much gridlock in Albany around budget time.
quote:
Originally posted by txiabxyooj
the american system is supposed to be based "ideally" on two healthy opposing parties. however, i feel that each party is down right sick & out of control. neither party seems particularly interested in its constinuents nor do they seem in the least open minded. each side has its little tricks that it plays while paying no attention to what is really going on. one of my favorites is the constant media spin game each side is actively participating in.
Both parties in the US as a whole have moved towards the center to try to gather swing voters. While there are still differences between the parties, they're getting smaller. Many politicians are crossing party lines in votes just because they don't want to be perceived as out of touch with the majority. Yes, there are still radicals on both sides, but their voices are getting muffled by the roar of the crowd.
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Fri Sep 20, 2002 1:22 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
An interesting topic. I'm surprised it's stayed so civil...
I went with the conservative side, although I'm with Lintra (and others) that I don't appreciate the way they like to dictate morality. The unfortunate reality is that these people (politicians, that is) seem to have lost all sense of duty. Neither side really seems to care much about the country and the people- it's all about staying in office. These bozos will sell their souls if it gets them a win in the next election. I was most disappointed a few years back. The whole country had a "throw the bums out" election, sending all sorts of new people to Washington with instructions to shake up the monkey tree. Within 1 year, they were as bad as the long-timers.
The founding fathers envisioned the system being run by gentlemen (yes, at the time it was sexist) that had the financial means to effectively "take a couple years off from their life", not by people that turn politics into a profession. It was supposed to be a pain-in-the-butt duty that you wanted to complete, not something you aspired to do for your entire life.
@Lintra- there's 2 things that would do wonders for the country that you'll never, ever see. Honest-to-goodness tax simplification, and putting common sense into the legal system. Doing the first one puts thousands and thousands of accountants out of a job and might reduce the amount of our money congress gets to play with. Doing the second means less work for those in the legal system and less need for new laws (which means the numerous lawyers in government don't have nearly as much to do).
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=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
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Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Fri Sep 20, 2002 3:21 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
I was born and raised in California, thus being thrust into the heart of the liberal mecca not by choice, I knew no better. I used to be a major Liberal, believe it or not ='.'= I have a relatively seedy past of school dropouts, smoke-outs, hatreds for "the man"(which is basically anything to do with the govt) or any type of authority, hatreds for big corporations, successful people in general, and ultimately my country. But that was long ago(12 or so years), and it pains me to even recount it. I used to work in a machine shop when I was 18 or so, and if youve ever done it, you know its unforgiving, dirty, hard work. I was always a intensely hard worker, partly because it was good for banging out frustration and it made the time pass.I worked rings around other people, literally. People made fun of me too, like non-achievers of any stripe often do to those who show them up. I remember one day one of my co-worker slackers of otherwise the same political stripe, some slob named Dwayne said to me "What are you doing man? You think youre gonna get some kinda *bonus* or somthing?" I didnt care. I dont know what it was, as much as I hated the place I worked for, I kept working my butt off for like 2 years.I just became driven and knew ultimately somehow it was going to pay off. One day the "Big Boss" came out and told me he was impressed, and offered me a job up front, in the office helping with blueprints.With a considerable raise. Before long, I was bringing my fellow cohorts out their paperwork, and not long after that, I had my own desk and office. I soaked up any knowledge about anything to do with my industry, and worked hard, worked late. Dwayne came in my office one day, awaiting his fabrication orders for the day, and i said to him "Remember when you asked me if I was going to get a bonus or somthing?" He smiled, i knew he remembered. I spread my arms out in front of me and said "This.. THIS is my BONUS!" He laughed it off, as they usually do. So what. Heres your marching orders, dude, see ya.And dont mess up the grooves on the piping like youve been doing the last 3 times.
Thus was the beginning of my re-birth as a conservative.I didnt look to anybody, or blame anybody for anything when it came to my personal struggles to achieve a better way of life. My destiny was mine alone. I was turning into everything I had previously hated,but I loved it! I wore a tie at work, for petes sake.I went back to school part-time. But my standard of living doubled, if not tripled. was it not worth it? I was driving a new truck, I had money, and the ability to spend it without worry.Good looking quality girlfreinds! I didnt immediately drop all my freinds or anything, but I started to really see thru alot of the environmental-type and Big Biz conspiracy fallacies I used to thrive on. I found that those people are the new communists. The more i looked objectively at their arguments, and what they wanted to accomplish, and who they hated, I realized that "environmentalism" and anti-Big Biz was merely a smokescreen for anti-capitalism. For anti-personal freedom.For total control and dependancy.For a return toa controlled 3rd world type way of life. Even now, when I walk in mountainous parks that I used to enjoy back then, literally half the area is roped-off now to supposedly protect some stupid plant they say is "endangered".Enforceable by fine.The mountains I used to climb daily after school fenced off here and there. Alot of the dunes we used to ride 3-wheelers on are now fenced off because of efforts by the Sierra Club. These people are not about conservation, these people are about land control.About personal control. These "Big Businesses" that we're all supposed to hate, employ the very people of this nation. Ever think of that? Its like when everyone went after Microsoft, thinking theyd knock that big evil giant down and scramble for the remains. The result was the biggest tech sector plunge we've ever known, and the death of the "little guy" who couldnt ride the wave they themselves wanted so badly. Or so they thought. I noticed that Liberals never have a reason to vote "for" them, only reasons to vote against the Republicans. And the things the Democrats stand for, is all envy and class warfare. The poor Vs. the rich. The blacks Vs. the whites. The women Vs. the men.Always an excuse for YOUR failure. These are the core methods of pitting people against each other, and presenting yourself as the solution.These people have been claiming this for how long, and they say it still isnt fixed? I think its time to rethink your voting habits. Social engineering, more taxes, we'll take from the achievers whats rightfully yours because you deserve it for being downtrodden. They are the reason youre unsuccessful. Its a conspiracy. Sorry, Ive got reasons to vote FOR Republicans. Less taxes, gotta love that. More defense, literally must have that. Privatization of Social Security, so its there when i retire.Busting the teachers' unions stranglehold on the schooling of our nations children. Giving the private sector a shot at teaching, give the govt schools some competition, reason to improve. Make it learning for kids, not just a job for adults' unions. Drilling in frozen tundras like the arctic or 20 miles off the coast, to lessen these Middle East wackos energy stranglehold on us. And Republicans are not bent on politically correcting every American tradition and institution we as Americans hold dear. After reaching world superpower in just over 200 years, while others falter for thousands, weve been doing something right. God Bless the USA, vote Republican =] |
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Fri Sep 20, 2002 4:36 am |
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Gish
Almighty Gish
Joined: 27 Apr 2002
Posts: 249
Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina |
I like liberals because conservatives are too, well, umm conservative. However, changes made in government should not be too CrAzY.
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"It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible." |
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Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:33 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I voted for the conservatives.
EDIT -- removed all the stupid stuff. was in a weird mood yestereve.
_________________
www.shadowpool.com
www.darkfallonline.com |
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Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:39 am |
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