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Kaniver
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Western Oregon |
| Whats missing from todays MMORPG's |
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As we head into 3rd and 4th generation online worlds what is it that is missing from these extremely exspensive to market game worlds?
I feel that many of of have thought long and hard about this that are interested in the diversity that online worlds create. The chance to battle with and against other netizens has always held a facination for me. People are after all unpredictable and only limited by the games dynamic laws as to what they can and cannot do.
A few of the upcoming titles I have read about seem to be more involved into what the player sees than what the player feels and thinks. What I am saying here is that graphics are important , but by no means the most important factor in creating an adventurefull, addictive world. Personally I believe these worlds should be like a blank page, unwritten book, that the playerbase writes as it twists and turns through a hopefully envolping skillset. The infancy of massive online worlds begs to be exploited by talented storyweavers that can take us to places undreamed of.
One of the things that made me realize this corelation between what we see and what we think is feel is the rich enviorments that MUD's created for days gone by ( and actually still here ). Many of the online games we see today have there initial inspiration from these earlier muds. Simutronics created some very inticate worlds with gemstons,gemstones 3, dragonrealms. Without annthing but text and a simple frontend they indeed captured the players minds and made you feel alive in there worlds. Somehow this hasn't translated to graphical online worllds with the same intensity.
As an example from memory a battle in dragonrealms would involve equipping your weapon (pull sword from sheath ) equip shield, then numerous stances , parrys, thrusts, swings, until the conflict was decided. If you won you could drill deeper into the interaction by sheathing sword, unequip shield, pull dagger from sheath, skin kobold, put knife in sheath, put skin in sack, search corpse.
This is just a very small peek of the 1,000s of interactions with breadth of field that were available. This intrisic world created a rich enviorment for roleplay.
Ahh roleplay. Does it seem that for the most part the roleplay aspects of current MMORPG's are missing roleplay for the most part? Is this the fault of the playerbase? Or is it a result of the game mechanics/world that we are dropped into? These are serious questions thet beg answering. Is the playerbase interested in roleplay or are they satisfied with twitch button mashing and flavor of the month templates for character creation? These are questions that we each have to answer individually.
I for one crave the richest, deepest, interaction with the game world I can find. Somthing that fosters roleplay and every little thing you do has meaning and consequences. Somthing that takes weeks than months to learn and become a part of. Simutronics was developing a mmorpg that I think they long ago abandoned. Maybe bringing the vividness of muds to mmorpgs isn't feasible............I dunno. Has anybody really tried?
Interested in anybodys elses thoughts on this. |
Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:50 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
In my opinion what is missing the most in MMORPGs is a true simulated world along with artificial intelligence. True, the players are intelligent, but the world should be a simulation, not a mere playground. That would lend realism and believability into the games, instead of static content. We need dynamitism! O was thinking of creating/programming a simulated worldscape like that a few years ago, but the fact that it would take 10 years to complete alone on minimum budget and the other realization that modern computers just are not powerful enough yet to lend to a real simulated world, both determined my decision not to fulfill the project. True, i could have used databases instead of live data, but still, the databases for a true world simulation would be so massive that it would require at least 25 gigabytes of space on the players hard-drive. Until we can reach common requirements that are in this time considered massive, nothing is going to simulate a realistic worldscape. The technology behind artificial intelligence is not sophisticated enough currently to simulate a believable agent or real person, so why bother? After 50 years of contemporary, US governmental, and academic research into Artificial Intelligence, no real results have occurred other than idealistic and conceptual production! All attempts at real artificial intelligence have failed drastically to date. True, technology has improved because of it, but VERY slowly and only in spaced-out increments. What i am getting at is, the reason MMOs are so popular with developers, other than the potential monetary income, is that they can replace artificial intelligence with actual persons. Thats one of the reasons why they are seen as attractive to some game developers. People are going to replace artificial intelligence because A.I. is simply NOT going to happen in the near future. PEOPLE are the intelligent agents in these games, not the systems. But what is missing STILL is a true world simulation. A world wherein the seasons occur automatedly instead of statically -- where trees actually grow and plants grow and are harvested -- a world where weather systems are formatted after real-world weather systems instead of random number sequences -- where earthquakes, fires, floods, ect, all occur in realtime instead of instituted by GMs! -- a world where politics is handled partly by NPCs instead of entirely by humans -- TO THE POINT: a worldscape which LIVES and BREATHES instead of being a static playground which is determined by gamemasters and developers. It would all be contained inside a well-designed, permanent, pre-contrived dynamic system. Much like Gaia, the Earth, is a massive conglomeration of dynamic systems that are interdependent among themselves: like a huge engine of dynamics. And add to this the social and creative input of human being players, and you will have a REAL SIMULATION, instead of a contrived simulation like what exists today. That is my take on what is missing. |
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Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:11 am |
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Kaniver
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Western Oregon |
An afterthought of the transfer of the depth of muds to mmorpgs is that it is akin to making a book into a movie. A really good book never seems to be fully captured in a movie....espcially if you have read the book first. Maybe what I long to see in a mmorpg isn't feasible after all? |
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Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:27 pm |
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Clandestine
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Johnson City, TN |
In my opinion, the thing that is most lacking in MMORPGs is simply, "role-play". People are too busy placing their characters on the leveling treadmill (they are not to be blamed for this - the game creators and designers are) because they know it's going to take six months to reach any decent level of progress that they simply don't role-play for fear of losing precious time that they could be getting that next bubble.
Also, it is a shame that you have to designate some servers in a game as "role-playing" servers, when the whole purpose of a MMORPG is role-play, but even on the so-called "role-playing" servers, there is enough "d00d" speak, talk about the Braves and the Marlins in the ninth inning, and people named FatNeckHarry1234567 to effectively extinguish any feeling of immersion or desire for role-play. "Hail and well met FatNeckHarry1234567! From whence did thy name descend?" This doesn't exactly lend itself to good role-play.
In my opinion, both designers and players need to get back to the purpose of MMORPGs and start making the world immersive by playing character-appropriate roles and developing games that lend themselves to going to the local tavern and having an ale with some friends, or meeting new friends, without fear of losing, God forbid, that 30 minutes of treadmill time.
_________________
"The Scots Character is Forged in Granite. That is no Timid Reed. Shaken by the Wind. " |
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Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:43 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I totally agree. Might i mention: Trials of Ascension! |
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Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:41 am |
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Thormiel
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 33
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quote:
Originally posted by Clandestine
In my opinion, both designers and players need to get back to the purpose of MMORPGs and start making the world immersive by playing character-appropriate roles and developing games that lend themselves to going to the local tavern and having an ale with some friends, or meeting new friends, without fear of losing, God forbid, that 30 minutes of treadmill time.
Easier said then done. And how would you define roleplaying? That everyone must speak renaissance speak, every dwarf must behave like Gimli, every elf must act like Elrond? Not to mention that unless you plan to have a roleplaying police sitting right there next to each player, there's no way to make everyone roleplay their characters. The majority of the players will always want to take the easiest and shoetest route to the level cap. |
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Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:04 pm |
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Kaniver
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Western Oregon |
Roleplay adds a multidimensional layer to games. It adds flavor and unpredictable human interaction. When I was playing Shadowbane ( not for long I might add ) there was a thief that was an absolutely outstanding roleplayer. He would write up hit exploits on a weekly basis. His roleplay added so much to his character is wasn't funny. The different races all have base opportunitys for roleplay. Dwarves are surley and grumpy and generally dislike most other races. They love to make weapons and armor as blacksmiths and armorer's. They cherish the feel of gold coins running through there fingers and love to down tankards of grogg. These racial attributes have infinite rolplay possibilities.
No game as of yet has fully fleshed out the thief to my utter dismay. Thieves are such a great character class and none has brought them to the forefront. Only thieves you see are grifer thieves such as those that try and take advantage of newbs and game mechanics to steal players gear or kills......blah! In my opinion it is the one thing sorely missing from WOW.
As to implementing roleplay it has to be deeply entrenched in a server / shard as to make any that don't roleplay outcasts.....unwelcome entrenchers.......either they learn to rolplay or they go to another sever/game.
Of course that takes a big enough base of roleplayers to make it work. In Gemstones and Dragonrealms you were pretty much forced to roleplay because that was a central theme of the game. Players who persisted in being OOC were frowned upon and generally looked down upon.
If you choose to play a certain race class you should at least try to behave as you would think that character would act given his storyline background. RPG's after all stands for roleplaying games!! It isn't going to be everyones cup of tea, thank goodness there are plenty of games to choose from. You always hear that people want to roleplay......but I have yet to see is sucessfully implemented in a mainstream graphical online game. I precieve that the majority of the responsibility lies with the playerbase.........no? |
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Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:14 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Yeah, it is the players that are responsible for it. Unless the devs FORCE everyone to roleplay, not many people are going to. For one thing, MMORPGs dont really attract real roleplayers. Most of the people playing are regular people who might have never even played dungeons and dragons before they jumped into the MMO wagon. Some people just play it like its a video game. |
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Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:37 am |
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Amelia
City Guard
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 141
Location: Ong's Hat, New Jersey |
quote:
Originally posted by Ammon777
In my opinion what is missing the most in MMORPGs is a true simulated world along with artificial intelligence. True, the players are intelligent, but the world should be a simulation, not a mere playground. That would lend realism and believability into the games, instead of static content. We need dynamitism! O was thinking of creating/programming a simulated worldscape like that a few years ago, but the fact that it would take 10 years to complete alone on minimum budget and the other realization that modern computers just are not powerful enough yet to lend to a real simulated world, both determined my decision not to fulfill the project. True, i could have used databases instead of live data, but still, the databases for a true world simulation would be so massive that it would require at least 25 gigabytes of space on the players hard-drive. Until we can reach common requirements that are in this time considered massive, nothing is going to simulate a realistic worldscape. The technology behind artificial intelligence is not sophisticated enough currently to simulate a believable agent or real person, so why bother? After 50 years of contemporary, US governmental, and academic research into Artificial Intelligence, no real results have occurred other than idealistic and conceptual production! All attempts at real artificial intelligence have failed drastically to date. True, technology has improved because of it, but VERY slowly and only in spaced-out increments. What i am getting at is, the reason MMOs are so popular with developers, other than the potential monetary income, is that they can replace artificial intelligence with actual persons. Thats one of the reasons why they are seen as attractive to some game developers. People are going to replace artificial intelligence because A.I. is simply NOT going to happen in the near future. PEOPLE are the intelligent agents in these games, not the systems. But what is missing STILL is a true world simulation. A world wherein the seasons occur automatedly instead of statically -- where trees actually grow and plants grow and are harvested -- a world where weather systems are formatted after real-world weather systems instead of random number sequences -- where earthquakes, fires, floods, ect, all occur in realtime instead of instituted by GMs! -- a world where politics is handled partly by NPCs instead of entirely by humans -- TO THE POINT: a worldscape which LIVES and BREATHES instead of being a static playground which is determined by gamemasters and developers. It would all be contained inside a well-designed, permanent, pre-contrived dynamic system. Much like Gaia, the Earth, is a massive conglomeration of dynamic systems that are interdependent among themselves: like a huge engine of dynamics. And add to this the social and creative input of human being players, and you will have a REAL SIMULATION, instead of a contrived simulation like what exists today. That is my take on what is missing.
You might be interested in the U(ULTRA)MMORPG [read: pretentious] called Wish that is in development. In aiming for a more dynamic world they are deleting the idea of spawn zones and replacing it with natural spawns according to terrain etc.. So when you go to hunt a creature you actually have to hunt. On top of this once a creature is dead, it's dead. No more camping a spot waiting for a respawn. This carries over to unique creatures as well. Once the unique creature has been denied existence - it's done with. In combination with the fact there is only one super server (upwards of 10k players), when you kill The Vampire Lord, you become the legendary vampire hunter. This allows characters to actually being able to obtain a unique heroic status within the community as it realizes the achievements of specific players in destroying specifc creatures, at least ideally. Quests follow suit:
quote:
2.5 - Are there quests?
Yes, but not in the sense used in most MMORPGs. Never will a generic quest remain in the world forever. In Wish, if you do a quest to kill a dragon, that dragon is dead and the quest is gone. Our team of Game Masters makes this possible by constantly adding new quests that are designed to be fun, inclusive and most importantly non-repeating. We want players to actually be able to accomplish things.
FAQ
_________________
The real secret of magick is that the world is made of words. And that if you know the words that the world is made of, you can make of it whatever you wish. -Terence Mckenna |
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Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:06 am |
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