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Draszmar
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Aug 2001
Posts: 10
Location: Munich, Germany |
Hi Stefan,
That about the language was an exaggeration, I just had the feeling it was too common and out of place.
I think the Piranha people did very well with their German dialogue in Gothic. It was not too "high society" and not too modern and different characters had different styles.
What about the issue that you borrowed so much from Baldur's Gate? When I first played the Demo I said to Garrett: Look, even the cursors look alike, only a differnt colour. I think, when you borrow things from another game, you should improve them. But Gorasul doesn't look like an improvement to BG2 to me, not even to BG1.
However, I really appreciate your efforts in making an epic CRPG and just for the sake of that I may purchase Gorasul.
Hi Garrett,
I wanted to log in as Khiran, but the server didn't recognize any of my E-Mail adresses anymore, so I opened a new account as Drasssszmar the Dark and Mighty (Hissssssss)
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Thu Aug 30, 2001 7:29 am |
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Stefan Hoffmann
Silver Dragon of Gorasul
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 47
Location: Berlin/Germany |
Hello Draszmar!
About language: Yup, a "brontal krasse" exaggeration.  But ok, if you don't like the dialogues you don't like the dialogues.
(non-german speaking readers: Sorry, "brontal krass" isn't translatable, well, hm, may only not translatable for me. Anyone else may helps me out?)
About BG2: Well, I think the similar aspects of Gorasul and BG2 are rather on the surface. Gorasul is not a clone, it works very different in many aspects. The character system works different, the spell system works *very* different, and Gorasul is a game that's much more friendly to beginners, which is also quiet a bigger difference.
There are some parts specially in the user interface where we accepted well proven solutions as some kind of standard. The system with the destination cursors is one example (though you can change that in the options, if it annoys you ), the optional automatic game pauses may are another.
Our destination cursor is *much* nicer btw.. Oh no, you can't deny that.
If your idea of an improvement is to make a game much bigger, with more detailled quests, even more text and twice as much play time than BG2, then you're definetely right with your statement about improvements. Well, this wasn't our aim. In many cases "improvement" is a subjective matter, so let's talk about the objective ones if you like. From the technical side I should mention the pathfinder, which *always* finds a way to the target, if there is one (including: pushing party members out of the way). Also, a bit more subjective, the AI and the configuration abilities for it work smarter in Gorasul. You couldn't test that really in the demo, because you have no other party members until the visit in master Jenais house.
Ok, so far for now.
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Stefan Hoffmann
Silver Style Entertainment |
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Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:50 pm |
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Garrett
Joined: 13 Jul 2001
Posts: 74
Location: Munich, Germany |
'brontal krass' is really untranslateable, it is simply a *terrible* german slang, not at all epic or poetic - but gorasul does not use that language, so don't worry!
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Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:37 am |
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Draszmar
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Aug 2001
Posts: 10
Location: Munich, Germany |
Hello Stefan,
I don't think it would be an improvement if any game were bigger, longer, more detailled and with more text than BG2. It's as big, long and detailled as any game can get, but...
...improvements would be: Better graphics, better sound&music (nearly impossible), better interface, better game system (not ancient and messed up AD&D 2nd edition rules), more interesting quests, better storyline.
Now, concerning Gorasul: The graphics are not as nearly as good as the graphics og BG and I won't talk about the sound. The interface is not as intuitive, also. The game system may be better than AD&D 2nd edition and from the demo I can't say anything about more interesting quests, because these were the usually simple starter quests.
In a nutshell: If you are using plagiarism on the (IMHO) best CRPG to date when you are developing your own CRPG with a relatively small team, the possibility of losing is very high because people (like me) will always compare your game to the GREAT ONE. Better make your own thing.
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Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:40 am |
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Garrett
Joined: 13 Jul 2001
Posts: 74
Location: Munich, Germany |
My friend Draszmar is one of the nicest and dearest persons I know, but he tends to be a little...say thoughtless and harsh, especially when writing down things - so I'm sure there's no offense, Steffan
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Fri Aug 31, 2001 10:29 am |
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Stefan Hoffmann
Silver Dragon of Gorasul
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 47
Location: Berlin/Germany |
Hi all!
@Garrett: It's okay, I keep that in mind. In fact: I NEED to keep that in mind.
@Draszmar: PLAGIARISM? YOU TALKING ABOUT PLAGIARISM??? (... "no offense" whispers Garrett. Ah I see, I kept in mind... )
Ok, first of all: There is no plagiarism in Gorasul. The main similarities are the ISO perspective (which I saw for the first time on the ZX Spectrum, I think) and minor graphical aspects like the destination marker (I saw cursors like that before in some strategy games). Forget these things for a moment and focus your mind on the aspects of Gorasul, which stand for themselves (and these are, sorry to say that, many). You might find out, that we already MADE our own thing with Gorasul - like you told us.
Comparing games to other, specially reference games like Diablo or Baldurs Gate is sometimes much too easy and that's often very annoying. Some people say "Hey, it's like BG, but the graphics aren't that nice". Other say "Hey, it's an action rpg like Diablo, but with better quests and story". Well, I really heard both sentences often enough and only one of these sentences can be true. For me, I disbelieve in both.
Ok, back to your posting:
- Music/Sound: Specially the Corvin Corax soundtracks has many fans already. Music is always a matter of taste, but noone would denie that this music is of a high quality and fits quiet good to the game.
- Let me know what you dislike on the Gorasul interface. If you have any good suggestion here, you can be sure that we will have a look on this.
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Stefan Hoffmann
Silver Style Entertainment |
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Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:17 pm |
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Draszmar
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Aug 2001
Posts: 10
Location: Munich, Germany |
Hi Stefan,
I think there has been a misunderstanding about the music. I didn't say it was bad. IMO it just isn't as good as the music from BG or BG2 (but to beat the music from BG it has to be really really great).
You said, it's easy to compare games to BG2 or Diablo (by the way, I don't think Diablo 2 is a very good game, just like Garrett, but that's a different matter), but if you make a game so similar to BG, you invite people to compare the games. And I will stand by my opinion, that the games are very similar, IMO the only differences being the dragon abilities (which by the way remind me of the Bhaal abilities of the main character in BG2) and the developing of the weapon.
About the interface: I can't remember, what bothered me because it's been a while since I played the demo. I considered playing it again just to tell you about the interface, but I decided against it, because my time to play games is limited and I just want to play what I really really like.
I just remembered, that the interface wasn't as intuitive as the infinity engine, where you can reach almost everything with 2 mouseclicks.
You may think that it's not fair that I draw these conclusions only from a demo. But I'm not a game tester, I just like playing good CRPGs. I'm one of your potential customers. And as a customer I think I put quite some effort in getting accustomed to the game. I read some reviews and I played the demo for quite a time, which IMO isn't something everyone does who you target as potential customer.
The review in the German magazine PCGames hit IMO the nail right on the head. They even criticised the strange language, just like me, so you may consider there's some truth in it.
As a conclusion: As a German CRPG-Fan I really appreciate your effort in creating an epic game. I wish you great success with Gorasul, so you will be able to create and release an improved Gorasul 2 (or whatever) in the future. |
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Mon Sep 10, 2001 7:46 am |
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Stefan Hoffmann
Silver Dragon of Gorasul
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 47
Location: Berlin/Germany |
Hello Draszmar!
Ok ok, I give up, compare BG and Gorasul as long as you wish, I can't prevent you from that anyway. For me, the self-contained elements of the roleplay system and the story counts much more than some superficial aspects, that reminds someone to Baldurs Gate.
And you can be sure that I recognize that you spent quiet a lot of time in Gorasul to pass a sentence. Definetely more than anyone can expect from a "normal" customor who may only read a review in a magazine.
About the interface: Hm, I assume, if you simply forgot the problems, they couldn't be such weighty. Let me know, if I'm wrong.
About PC Games review: Well, I commented that in another thread in a not so friendly way and I won't repeat that here again. The truth in your words and in the review is, that you obviously don't forgive us some of the jokes or the expressions that we have used. That's okay, that's your opinion. On the other hand many people like the humour and be happy with it. So the main question is: How can we satisfy *both* parties next time?
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Stefan Hoffmann
Silver Style Entertainment |
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Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:45 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Well, there will always be differences in opinions, which can't all be satisfied in one production (game). And as long there isn't any massive tendency for a certain change in game mechanics or gameplay,the critics should be treated as they are, as good informations for alternative options, but not a request from the majority. In matter of a game has good or bad humour or language, is really matter of taste and should be decided from the majority.
This post is not a request to prevent critics,on the contrary the more who gives his opinions, the more likely it will convince a game developer to change direction for his next game, if there is a major support for a change or a adding.
On the other hand, a single critic may also have a "pearl" that others didn't think of.
To follow up this post, I should give my opinion, but I would not feel it wouldn't be fair, before I have played the full game, I thought the Demo was to short, to comment on these subjects.
[ This Message was edited by: Michael C on 2001-09-10 09:14 ] |
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Mon Sep 10, 2001 2:12 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Stefan: I can expect an english release any day in a very close future now, yes? (Hint?) |
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Mon Sep 10, 2001 2:25 pm |
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Stefan Hoffmann
Silver Dragon of Gorasul
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 47
Location: Berlin/Germany |
@Michael C: Well, you definetely can be sure that criticism is valuable for any game developer. It's not so easy (or, to be honest: impossible) to create a game that anyone likes, but any developer will try to create a game that fits his own ideas most and that will satisfy as much of the customers as possible. In fact, Draszmars
or your criticism is helpful for many aspects, so this is definetely okay to me(which does not mean that I would agree to statements where I disagree in my mind ).
About the english version: As I said before in this thread, the english version is actually our main task. We were a bit surprised how much work has to be done for this, but we want to spend this time to get a satisfying quality. Now, the light of the end of the passage is coming closer... but I cannot confirm any official release date now.
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Stefan Hoffmann
Silver Style Entertainment |
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Mon Sep 10, 2001 9:47 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Stefan: Thank you for a quick response with a satisfying answer.
The picture under your name, is that the frontcover to the gamebox or just a gimmick? Are we foreigners getting another frontcover compared to the one relaesed in Germany?
I hope you are not to angry about us comparing Gorasul to other games, it's just in our nature! And to be compared with the best, is kind of a pat on the shoulder.
You really try to distance your game from others, which I can understand! But I still want to know which games you prefer to be related to, so please order the following categories from the most interesting to less interesting.
Category 1: First person 3D games like Ultima underworld, Might&Magic, Wizard & Warriors, Daggerfall,etc.
Category 2: Topdown games like Baldurs gate 2, Icewinddale, Planscape, Fallout.
Category 3: More action oriented games like Diablo 2, Revenant, Nox etc.
Category 4: More Strategic games like Evil Islands, Disciples, Heroes of M&M etc.
I play games from all the categories, with great pleasure, but my favourite is category 1 followed by 4,3 and 2. |
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Tue Sep 11, 2001 9:50 am |
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Guest
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I've been reading the posts for some time now, and i have one proposition
I think that it would be cool to be able to master one (or two) skills to the maximum and still be able to finish the game (example, Diablo 2, if i lets say learned teeth with necromancer to level 20, i could use it to go over the entire game). Grand mastery, eh?
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Fri Sep 14, 2001 10:23 pm |
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Guest
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I havent played the game yet but i think it will be great. I dont want to download the demo because they kind of suck. I think BG2 was great but i dont think it compares with this (duck as trash is thrown at me). IM not saying that BG2 is better or not better but i think Bg2 was based on d&d rules and spells. THis game has more of a great fantasy world to it. I read a lot of books and the land in BG2 was known to me before i even hit the game. I am interested in this game because I want to see how it changed its lands and spells and weapons. I loved BG2 but i cannot compare it to this. Maybe in graphics but im sure you can pump them up to make them look better. Demos can be decieving |
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Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:42 am |
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Guest
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Oh yeah and i forgot to ask....how many different monsters and critters do you think there will be in this game to fight. Not including the different color same monster idea. Also how many weapons and spell can we count on? |
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Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:46 am |
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