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Guest
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Don't worry about the financial situation of PB. They are having enough money because their are a part of the phenomedia AG.
http://www.phenomedia.com/artikel.html?707
Well Anyway. XiCat suxx. But their new Publishe ris "JoWood"....i'm sure they'll do a better job. |
Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:17 pm |
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Guest
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geeeee!
to resume this thread
absolute waste of time
why the hell are you answering to a troll??
darksharp you're just a pathetic teenager ...
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Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:26 pm |
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Guest
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Llama I tip my hat off to you. You said it peeeeeeeeerrrrfect. This darksharp kid was really annoying. |
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Mon Dec 03, 2001 11:09 pm |
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the-skull-king
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 28
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hey liama...
nice way to boost your ego. posting under your real name then switching to anonymous for a few back up posts is pretty smart. then using the same sentance structures and wording..
universaly stupid.
i think you are an idiot. and yes you are a fanboy. they things you mentioned are not what make you a fanboy. what makes you a fan boy is not taking in outside opinions about something that obviously mean WAY TO MUCH to you.
fanboy.
the grass is green, the sky is blue, water is wet, and the world isnt flat! your kind died off hundreds of years ago. so open your eyes and start thinking for your self and stop defending video game companies that make poor games.
give the other fanboys and email and told em i just insulted your lifes conquest... this game. |
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Mon Dec 03, 2001 11:56 pm |
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Guest
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I am not a member of a dev.. I'm still in school etc... but I do believe I need to state my opinion on this.
One- The mouse is under-used. The controls are not great but they are by FAR better than any console port for the PC... look at Soul Reaver 2.. piece of shit game even on the PS2 and a waste of space on store shelves on PC. True PC is warezable... but that can be stopped. Make sure you look into protections for your discs. This stops the majority of people out there who just copy the game and sell the CD-R illegally...
Do NOT be fooled by some out there such as SafeDisc v2. ANYONE can clone that perfectly. Make sure you stay on top of protections at all times and make sure you use a CD-Check (for some reason I can play without the CD in the drive.. BIG no-no). Also, use an internet connection detection. Communicate the game version with a master server and you can legally tell the person they are using an illegal copy. Black and White did this successfully in all ways except it was patchable through simply the registry. Also use CD-Keys... that is truely the hardest part of games to 'crack'. Of course there are keygens on "security-related" sites but you can get around that too easily. Look at Quake 3 Arena (and RTCW) and how well they stopped CD Keys online. You can even go as far as XP-based validation. Just remember it WILL all be cracked. There is no possibal way to stop warez entirely.. but this DOES stop all the "script-kiddies" out there who will copy the game in their $10 CD Burner for $5 or so. This includes more than half of the warez "scene".
The PC is a much more powerful form of gaming, and I hate consoles. Simply and truely. Of course system requirements are a bitch from time to time but that can be avoided with upgrades... a console on the other hand is a once every 5 years thing where the game dev keeps the tech level low enough to run the game on the old console. It MAY make more money in SOME cases.. but not all. Esp. compared to the MMORPG/RTS/FPS/etc. Yes this was already stated.
I will never buy a console period. I love Gothic and a Gothic 2 would simply kick ass.. true it was not well marketed but it still will be a pretty good seller with the reviews it's getting... look @ gamespot for example.
Well that would be all... l8r |
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Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:16 am |
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Llama
High Emperor
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth |
quote:
hey liama...
nice way to boost your ego. posting under your real name then switching to anonymous for a few back up posts is pretty smart. then using the same sentance structures and wording..
The fact that you are posting right here and right now tells me that some village, somewhere is missing their idiot.
I don't know about you, but when I click on this forum I don't have an option to switch names, it just says "Username: Llama" I don't see anyway to turn it off. I don't need an ego boost, because knowing that I'm smarter than you gives me enough satisfaction to keep on living.
Just because you have crap settings on your computer and you can't get this game to run like quake 3 means everyone else is a fanboy. Just because I'm smart enough to understand how engines work, and what features to turn off and on within my own video card to allow programs to run as smooth as possible means I'm a fanboy? Because I don't agree with your inane comments, or the idiocy that darky posts means I'm a fanboy?
Sorry dumbass, but you've got it all wrong. I'm someone that doesn't put up with everyday bullshit, be it face to face, or online. I'll call your bluff and call you out to prove me wrong. You haven't, darky hasn't, so you really have no reason to jump into a debate that is far above your intellectual level.
Labels and excuses like you and darky use are a sign of ignorance. You can't come up with any substance in your posts, or factual information to add to your "well thought" (laugh) comments, so you slap a "fanboy" label on someones face to justify your own stupidity.
Grow up, both of you.
also (edit)---
quote:
then using the same sentance structures and wording..
I believe that would be called English, or perhaps grammar...
[ This Message was edited by: Llama on 2001-12-03 19:54 ] |
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Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:52 am |
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Guest
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i am not a game developer, but i tend to agree with darksharp. commerce drives a game; if the average consumer has to struggle with it too much in any area (i.e. game controls) he/she is likely to give up and return the damn thing. especially if they find the game frustrating to play from the very beginning. i am more likely to return a piece of software in the first few days before i have become invested in it, this means you have to snag me early on. don't make me suffer through weeks of game play before i "catch on". i don't want to have to wait for an epiphany before i can control my character. i want the epiphanys to come through sold game play, graphics, etc. the fact that we are even having this discussion leads me to believe that something is wrong with the game. |
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Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:28 pm |
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Swiftest
Village Dweller
Joined: 07 Dec 2001
Posts: 2
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Llama, you're truly an idiot. I found the original poster, Darksharp, very credible and his sentiments echo my own exactly. I am quite an avid gamer owning the big three consoles and a couple dozen PC's (for my business). I buy a new game a week, if not more.
The interface to Gothic is unbelievably bad. Holding control-up arrow (course, I remapped to ESDF since I touch type) to interact is pathetically stupid! It boggles my mind that you have to use 2 keys to perform one of the most basic actions of the game. I don't know why, but a lot of crappy interface designs come from European/Russian developers who often otherwise excel at graphics/sound and sometimes game design. By contrast, look at how nice Wizardry 8's control scheme is. Those damn Canadians.  They're practically Americans, aren't they?
I thought Dark Age of Camelot was bad with it's no drag-n-drop (something Asheron's Call is good at), but Gothic takes the cake! And WTF were they smoking when they "designed" that ridiculous trade window?!
Anyway, right now, I'm willing to put up with the exceedingly crappy control scheme because I sense the potential and love the immersiveness of Gothic. I, too, have run into graphical glitches and lock-ups, especially after saving games. And my system is very good with plenty of memory and horsepower.
I would like to see more RPG's out for the consoles if nothing else than for stability and to indoctrinate more of the gaming public on good RPGs than the standard kiddie RPG console crap out now.
All you pathetic fanbois, let me ask you what exactly it is you're arguing here? We all seem to love the game. But most everybody believes Gothic has a sucky control scheme. You *might* grow to like it, but like Darksharp says, most consumers won't. There are tons of bugs, and perhaps it's more acceptable when it's a game of this scope and design, but I'm sick to death of developers releasing games before they're ready. The first thing I do when I buy a PC game is surf to their site to download the latest patch.
By the way, Darksharp, I'm getting into the game development business, and it sounds like consoles are more lucrative and the way to go. Which console do you see having the most potential? What do you think about the Gameboy Advance?
Swift |
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Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:14 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
The contractual obligiations said developer has with publisher in relation to those things? No you don't.
Obviously, you don't know either, if you make statements like the following:
quote:
OK well I'll tell ya what, I'll come back in three months when the Trist report come out for the holidays. Gothic will have sold 25k. If that.
No sales = no money for PB.
If you were a game developer, you'd know that you usually get your money in advance, per milestone. Therefore, PB has already been paid for making Gothic. Depending on their contract, they make get some money back if the sales reach a certain mark. Then again, PB is a small developer, with Gothic being their first product. They don't have much in the way of leverage when it comes to negotiating terms.
But thanks for playing anyway.
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Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:38 pm |
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Guest
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Yes but simple fact is that if a game, regardless of any milestone payments already made, sells poorly, that bodes poorly for the developer, period. Poor sales obviously significantly reduce any future deals, as no publisher wants to publish a poor seller.
As for Llama, go back and read the thread, and see who started this ridiculous argument. Llama tries to argue that he never said Darksharp dislikes Gothic...yet if you go back, Llama cast the first aggressive stone with his "I know you're not a developer" comment. It's so obvious after reading this entire thread that Llama got his panties in a bunch when Darksharp merely pointed out some legitimate shortcoming. This argument has nothing to do with any one person's opinion on the bugs or lack thereof at this point...it is purely out of Llama's 'frothing at the mouth' attitude towards someone willing to point out the game's flaws, in, as Darksharp said in his first post, a non-flame bait manner.
Gothic is a great game. Darksharp likes it. No Llama, you never specifically said he dislikes it...but your defensiveness at the outset indicates clearly that you take criticism of Gothic seriously enough to lash out, which itself indicates that you've got a chip on your shoulder. Pretty sad...I can think of much more important things to get all upset about.
And no, Darksharp did not get upset about Gothic. He got upset about you jumping on him.
This is also not a flame msg. It is telling it like it is. |
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Fri Dec 07, 2001 11:50 pm |
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Llama
High Emperor
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth |
quote:
All you pathetic fanbois
I knew you'd return darky...
As for the big bad "anonymous"; he's not a developer. It's brutally obvious to anyone not living with their own head inside their rectum.
Developers have a general respect for one another, don't come running to forums to discuss the idiocies of marketing strategies with people that have no interest in such nonsense.
Developers don't act like general asses because they not only have a mutual understanding of how hard it is to code a piece of software that is to run on hundereds of different system types.
Developers also understand the QA testing process, which this bafoon obviously does not. He blatantly compares console gaming to PC in gaming in a direct QA testing reference. These are no where near the same styles of testing or nearly as high a demand.
He then seemingly "brags" about his high power, super leet, kick ass job that he knows nothing about.
He then proceeds to point out bugs that only he has experienced. Rather amazing that his "super god" system with a gig of RAM and all the bells and whistles is having problems with a game that runs smooth as silk on nearly everyones machine here.
"Anonymous" perhaps you should just step out, you obviously have nothing of content to add to this post, your comments are borderline moronic and, as usual, you're "anonymous" which means your opinoins/comments are...to put it bluntly, moot. |
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Sat Dec 08, 2001 12:12 am |
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Guest
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Man, what's your deal? Your logic escapes me.
"Developers have a general respect for one another, don't come running to forums to discuss the idiocies of marketing strategies with people that have no interest in such nonsense."
Dark showed absolutely no disrespect. He made some suggestions which seemed interesting to me, and many others, until you turned this into a flame war. If you feel he was spouting idiocies, that's your opinion.
"Developers don't act like general asses because they not only have a mutual understanding of how hard it is to code a piece of software that is to run on hundereds of different system types."
Re-read this thread honestly. Really. Remove the chip and read it objectively. He did not act like an ass until you made the unsubstantiated claim that he is not a developer. Which, at that point, could not in any way be considered a constructive discussion point.
"Developers also understand the QA testing process, which this bafoon obviously does not. He blatantly compares console gaming to PC in gaming in a direct QA testing reference. These are no where near the same styles of testing or nearly as high a demand."
You are wrong. You cannot logically make the claim that he does not understand the testing process here, and therefore cannot conclude that he therefore must not be a developer. Prove it to me from the information here. You can't. There is no way to know whether the higher levels of bugs in PC games as compared to console games is due to "patch later" mentality or PC variability. It could be either or, more likely, both. Therefore, there is no correct answer here, and as a result you cannot claim that Darksharp is wrong.
"e then seemingly "brags" about his high power, super leet, kick ass job that he knows nothing about."
Aside from the fact that you have not shown that he knows nothing about the job, he really hasn't bragged. I am a scientist. If someone flat-out says "no you aren't" in a clearly aggressive way, it will inevitably lead to what you call 'bragging' here. It's not bragging...it's taking offense and trying to prove the accuser otherwise. Sorry bro, you brought this 'bragging' on yourself.
"He then proceeds to point out bugs that only he has experienced. Rather amazing that his "super god" system with a gig of RAM and all the bells and whistles is having problems with a game that runs smooth as silk on nearly everyones machine here."
Wrong again. Re-read the thread. Other people replied in agreement with some of the bugs. So there goes your claim that "only he has experienced" these bugs. Read more of the forum. It's obvious he is not the only one, so stop lying to try and make a point. And what's with your "super god" reference? Explain that to me...use some references to Dark's posts that show that he was implying that his system is "super god"-like and that this is not just another example of you having a tizzy.
"Anonymous" perhaps you should just step out, you obviously have nothing of content to add to this post, your comments are borderline moronic and, as usual, you're "anonymous" which means your opinoins/comments are...to put it bluntly, moot."
Another gem of logic. OK, my name is Kevin. Sorry I didn't register. Now you know my name, so my points are no longer moot. If it's really that important to you that I have my name up there where it says 'anonymous', then I don't get it. Maybe you just want a way to dodge me? And please explain to me how my post was borderline moronic. Again, you throw words around without a basis.
I love Gothic. Played the demo and am waiting for Xmas for it. But it really sucks to see interesting discussions hijacked by a bully with an axe to grind. Seriously, honestly, objectively, from the bottom of my heart, Llama, you are arguing like a 3-year old have a tantrum.
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Sat Dec 08, 2001 12:42 am |
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propellerhead
Head Merchant
Joined: 08 Dec 2001
Posts: 71
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What the hel you guys thinking wanting this game to be ported over to concil games. I dont want to see this title sitting next to marior....DAMN!
Anyway. I hope I see a part 2. |
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Sat Dec 08, 2001 7:34 am |
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Swiftest
Village Dweller
Joined: 07 Dec 2001
Posts: 2
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Funny, Llama quotes me ("pathetic fanbois"), but attributes it to Darksharp. Are you having perception problems now? I've come to hate pathetic ass-kissing fanbois after seeing how quick they are to defend crap like Anarchy Online and now, Dark Age of Camelot.
Oh, and in case you're wondering, I've worn many hats from system adminstrator to developer and then some. Lest you think I'm making this up, too, or have less of a right to offer my opinions on this topic.
And Kevin, the anonymous guy, answered your rantings point-by-point, so I won't bother. But I will say that you seem to be under the delusion that Darksharp slighted the PB devs. If anything, it was an honest appraisal and advice from one dev to another in a very respectful tone. Why are you so quick to dismiss his credentials? You've painted yourself into a corner with your vitriol and have only yourself to blame.
Swift
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Sat Dec 08, 2001 7:02 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Man, what's your deal? Your logic escapes me.
So does yours
[quote]"Developers have a general respect for one another, don't come running to forums to discuss the idiocies of marketing strategies with people that have no interest in such nonsense."
Dark showed absolutely no disrespect. He made some suggestions which seemed interesting to me, and many others, until you turned this into a flame war. If you feel he was spouting idiocies, that's your opinion.[/.quote]
"Discuss the idiocies of marketing strategies with people that have no interest in such nonsense." I guess you didn't read that part and stopped at idiocies? Coming to an unofficial forum, to discuss moronic ideas of getting the game in Wallmart and such is idiotic. If you are unable to see how moot it is, then I'm sorry for you.
quote:
"Developers don't act like general asses because they not only have a mutual understanding of how hard it is to code a piece of software that is to run on hundereds of different system types."
Re-read this thread honestly. Really. Remove the chip and read it objectively. He did not act like an ass until you made the unsubstantiated claim that he is not a developer. Which, at that point, could not in any way be considered a constructive discussion point.
I don't have a chip on my shoulder "enlightened one". He's no a developer, they don't act like he does, it's that simple. It's a simple matter of calling a bluff and not be proven incorrect. Sorry if you can't understand that, I really am. /end sarcasim
quote:
"Developers also understand the QA testing process, which this bafoon obviously does not. He blatantly compares console gaming to PC in gaming in a direct QA testing reference. These are no where near the same styles of testing or nearly as high a demand."
You are wrong. You cannot logically make the claim that he does not understand the testing process here, and therefore cannot conclude that he therefore must not be a developer. Prove it to me from the information here. You can't. There is no way to know whether the higher levels of bugs in PC games as compared to console games is due to "patch later" mentality or PC variability. It could be either or, more likely, both. Therefore, there is no correct answer here, and as a result you cannot claim that Darksharp is wrong.
I've done my share of QA work when I was getting through college. He made a direct comparrison to console testing and PC testing. If he was a developer he would know that is not at all possible. Console testing is a far more simple process, where you gather a dozen or so testers (depending on the size of the project). You have ONE system to test on. In the PC market you have many, many different types of PC's and configurations, including drivers, hardware and in general, how people can screw with their system to get it optimal. You can't test everything, you have to go with what you have and hope for the best. I worked for 5 companies during college, and tested 11 games during my 4 1/2 years. Four of those games were going to be big hits, one of them got slammed by people having bugs/crashes. None of which we had ever experienced. The game shipped CLEAN, I and the other 27 testers all played through it from beginning to end without a problem. The company then had to set up systems that people had who had troubles and some problems were found. Had that system type been in the department at the time of testing, it would have been caught. It's just that simple, sorry you're too nieve to realize it.
quote:
"e then seemingly "brags" about his high power, super leet, kick ass job that he knows nothing about."
Aside from the fact that you have not shown that he knows nothing about the job, he really hasn't bragged. I am a scientist. If someone flat-out says "no you aren't" in a clearly aggressive way, it will inevitably lead to what you call 'bragging' here. It's not bragging...it's taking offense and trying to prove the accuser otherwise. Sorry bro, you brought this 'bragging' on yourself.
Show me where he has proven he IS, I've given my reasons why he isn't.
quote:
"He then proceeds to point out bugs that only he has experienced. Rather amazing that his "super god" system with a gig of RAM and all the bells and whistles is having problems with a game that runs smooth as silk on nearly everyones machine here."
Wrong again. Re-read the thread. Other people replied in agreement with some of the bugs. So there goes your claim that "only he has experienced" these bugs. Read more of the forum. It's obvious he is not the only one, so stop lying to try and make a point. And what's with your "super god" reference? Explain that to me...use some references to Dark's posts that show that he was implying that his system is "super god"-like and that this is not just another example of you having a tizzy.
"in agreement with some of the bugs" hey cool you proved my point.
I believe the "top of the line" specs he posted, as in super computer, high end, "godlike" to most every person on a forum. Get off your soapbox already, you are boring me. 
quote:
"Anonymous" perhaps you should just step out, you obviously have nothing of content to add to this post, your comments are borderline moronic and, as usual, you're "anonymous" which means your opinoins/comments are...to put it bluntly, moot."
Another gem of logic. OK, my name is Kevin. Sorry I didn't register. Now you know my name, so my points are no longer moot. If it's really that important to you that I have my name up there where it says 'anonymous', then I don't get it. Maybe you just want a way to dodge me? And please explain to me how my post was borderline moronic. Again, you throw words around without a basis.
Because anonymous people magically appear during a discussion and pick sides. On certain occasions they are the people directly involved with the topic trying to make themselves appear correct by having "anonymous" people on their backs. Fact of life, deal with it.
Good riddance
Come back when you're not so boring please. |
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Sat Dec 08, 2001 8:04 pm |
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