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Ratavuk
Noble Knight
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 213
Location: I-Net |
If Bethesda is able to integrate all that, fine. But dev's always want to integrate thing that in the end don't make it in the game. Some time ago i read in an old interview with Mike Hoge that they wanted to integrate multiplayer in gothic 1 with some sort of coop gaming. In the end they didn't do it because it was too time consuming or something like that - another feature for my wishlist. |
Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:25 pm |
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Stiler
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
Posts: 230
Location: TN, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Ratavuk
If Bethesda is able to integrate all that, fine. But dev's always want to integrate thing that in the end don't make it in the game. Some time ago i read in an old interview with Mike Hoge that they wanted to integrate multiplayer in gothic 1 with some sort of coop gaming. In the end they didn't do it because it was too time consuming or something like that - another feature for my wishlist.
eh, it's already in-game.
It's one of their main "selling" points.
At e3 the demo'd it off with the AI being one of the central parts of the demo.
The game is slated for release late this year, nov'ish, they are pretty much in the "ironing out" features phase and testing things out. |
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Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:17 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Aye, it's one of their main selling points, but you have to remember what you are comparing it to here: Morrowind. An "amazing AI" in comparison to Morrowind is something you could drag out of a late 80s Commodore game. I have just completed Elderscrolls 3 myself(once again), and I still enjoy it, but the AI is utterly horrible, hehe.
Also, yeah I was speaking of the physics engine. Also, both games use the same way of making trees and the like(environment in general). |
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Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:32 pm |
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Stiler
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
Posts: 230
Location: TN, USA |
What two games?
If you mean Gothic III/Oblivion, I haven't heard about Gothic III's enviroment being anywhere like Oblivions.
As far as I know Gothic III's enviroment is all done by hand aren't they?
Oblivions is going to be "generated" and then fleshed out by the dev's, but they've worked on making the forest and area's that are generated to look realistic with how forests and things should look, how tree's grow/foilage, etc. It's not a "cheap" quickie "generation" of land like some games do (like SWG for example, ugh).
I still would prefer by hand though, there's just things an Artist can do that a computer can't. |
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Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:46 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Hmm, I think I read somewhere that Gothic and Oblivion will be using the same way of making things look "realistic", but I'm not really paying too much attention to Oblivion, so I may have missunderstood. |
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Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:35 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Both are using SpeedTree and SpeedGrass. This doesn´t say anything about how they´re using the tools, though. "Generate me a wood between these coordinates" or "Make a tree here, a smaller one there, a darker one next to it, etc. "
PB said at the presentation that the world is hand-made. But because it was said during the presentation of landscape LoD it´s not clear if they were talking about the landscape only or the whole world with everything in it.
Since they also talked about efficient content/asset (same word in German!) creation I assume they´re using tightly controlled generated content for as many things as possible. This is faster and not necessarily of weaker quality than hand-made content.
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Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:18 pm |
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Stiler
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
Posts: 230
Location: TN, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
Both are using SpeedTree and SpeedGrass. This doesn´t say anything about how they´re using the tools, though. "Generate me a wood between these coordinates" or "Make a tree here, a smaller one there, a darker one next to it, etc. "
PB said at the presentation that the world is hand-made. But because it was said during the presentation of landscape LoD it´s not clear if they were talking about the landscape only or the whole world with everything in it.
Since they also talked about efficient content/asset (same word in German!) creation I assume they´re using tightly controlled generated content for as many things as possible. This is faster and not necessarily of weaker quality than hand-made content.
Yea, I was a bit disappointed to hear they were using speedtree.
The thing I hate about it, is that it uses "sprites" for both the foilage and tree leaves.
For anyone that played older games (espically RTS's) that used sprites, you know what it means.
The leaves/grass isn't 3d, and it's always situated for where you're looking at it. So if say you're looking at a tree, and then you strafe around it in a circle, the leaves will actually "follow" you and move , which imo is a step backwords in technology.
Speedtree looks good in screens/still pictures, but if you notice small details like that it annoys the hell out of me these days.
As far as speedtree and such goes, there's a lot of things left up to the devlopers to decide, and that's where they'll differ probally.
Afaik the oblivion dev's have stated that they've spent a lot of time study how a natural forest develops/grows and how things work in the enviroment so that the forest and such they generate will look realistic and not like usual "generated" things that look missplaced/out of place and such.
Since I thought G3 was hand crafted I did think they were placing things like Tree's, etc by hand, but with speedtree probally not.
Hopefully they can do it justice, I far loved G2's enviroment and foilage quite a bit more then a lot of other games, it just had a sense of artistic style about it. |
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Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:07 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
I remember the Might and Magic games having those kind of trees. Didn't annoy me too much at the time(it was ground-breaking to have "3d" trees at all, hehe), but it certainly does today. I trust in PB though, they'll manage to make it look convincing.
Thanks for clearing up Gorath. |
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Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:51 am |
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Uriziel
Grand Mage
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 735
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Stiler, it is only my opinion, but I thought the graphics in G2 took a big step backwards. And now I will explain.
In G1 the world was "gritty", rough, untamed. Sure the trees were something from a first grade train set, but that was not only the tech at the time, but it was believable in the context.]
G2 was to me a step backwards graphically speaking. The foliage was muttled, the ground textures were amateurish at best.......my god I can't possibly explain how much I hated the general flora in G2. I could not "find" something easily by sight. I had to "mow the lawn" my first time through to find things. NOW I can spot fire nettle from ungodly distances, but my first time was visually taxing.
Maybe it was a game devs trick to extend play.....I'm not complaining in the least. But I honestly liked the "world", the ambiance of G1 better than G2.
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Chris: Dad, what's the blow-hole for?
Peter: I'll tell you what it's not for, son. And when I do, you'll understand why I can never go back to Sea World. |
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:31 am |
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Stiler
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
Posts: 230
Location: TN, USA |
To me, the enviroment looked far more "natural" and had a great "fantasy" flair to it.
I mean out in the middle of a wooded area, why wouldn't there be quite a bit of grass and foilage?
It just seemed more natural/artistic looking to me then a lot of other fantasy games that seem to have a "barren" landscape.
I guess it might have been a headache for some people, I didn't have any problems with it though, found plenty of the herbs and hidden things  . |
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:02 am |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
quote:
Originally posted by Uriziel
In G1 the world was "gritty", rough, untamed. Sure the trees were something from a first grade train set, but that was not only the tech at the time, but it was believable in the context.]
G2 was to me a step backwards graphically speaking. The foliage was muttled, the ground textures were amateurish at best.......my god I can't possibly explain how much I hated the general flora in G2. I could not "find" something easily by sight. I had to "mow the lawn" my first time through to find things. NOW I can spot fire nettle from ungodly distances, but my first time was visually taxing.
I do think that their are reasons for the hugely different worlds' environments. In Gothic I: Most of the light was acutally supressed by the barrier and also their were always fights. So nothing had lived any long and no tree grown any long either. But in Gothic II, it was just a normal world, with huge ling trees and small short plants.
I just 'took' it that way. Not that i know the reasons or anything, but that way it sounded more realistic to me, maybe it will sound so to you.
And to continue on that explanation, some people in WoG complained about the fact that animals look fiercer and bigger in GIII. The let's say answer that would make you happy was that their is more food on the mainland and that the animals colors were affected by what they eat.
On my wishlist on this game, is to remove MineCrawlers' sound as they always freaked me out even if i was level 100  
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:23 am |
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TheCleric
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 230
Location: Upstate NY, USA |
Boy, it's been a while since I've done a wish list!
Let's see now:
- I definately want to keep the same "feel" as G1 & G2.
- I'm hoping that the colors will be brighter and more vibrant in the final release than the screenshots seem to indicate.
- OK. Here's a BIG one. Could we please, Please, PLEASE, get the original voice actor that did Diego in G1 back!!!???! The one from G2 was horrible!
- I'd like the option to keep the G1 controls if I want. It doesn't really matter though, if the keys are re-mappable.
- I'd like to continue to see the choice to use either 1st or 3rd person POV.
- The ability to "Mix-n-Match" Armour.
- I still think Shields would be a good addition.
- An abundance of "Transportation Runes". I'm going to be in the minority and say I'd rather NOT see mounts. After the previous two games, I just don't think it would feel right to suddenly have horses in the game. Besides, I have a feeling that Orc's would find horses VERY tasty! I doubt many would survive.
- I'd like to see the ability to carry and use a Bedroll to sleep in the wilderness.
- I'll agree that scabbards would be nice to see.
- More regeneration of monsters than in G2.
- Another big mine or other subterranean level.
- Ladders and / or Ropes and the ability to climb them.
- A button to "Cycle" through magic spells.
- I'd like to be able to learn both Fighting and Magic skills if I so desire (depending on how long I want to spend out in the wilderness killing critters, or how many side-quests I want to take).
- I'd like to see more in-game video sequences than were in G2.
- The ability to learn Bow or Crossbow independently of each other.
- I'd like to see the cost of learning hunting skills go back to being fairly inexpensive as they were in G1.
- I'd also like to see the Running/Jumping combo be faster than just plain running again. This REALLY helped to escape enemies in G1 that you just weren't ready for and I greatly missed it in G2.
- Shrines for Innos, Adanos and Beliar.
- The ponytail blowing in the breeze sounds like a good idea.
- Complete voice acting as in G1 and G2 (I know, it's pretty much a given, but just wanted to mention it).
- The continued ability to go in and out of buildings without "loading" screens.
- It might be nice to see a bit of a "Love Interest" for our Hero, maybe let him get the girl in the end.
- More info on who our wandering Hero is. Oh, and how about a name for him? Something better than "Hey you", or "Hey there, you with the ponytail".
- How about a small appearance by some of the NOTR Pirates?
- Some of our old friends from G1 & G2 (I know, it's been announced some will be in G3, but just wanted to mention it).
- No matter how it ends with Xardas, I'd like them to work something into the plot that redeems him somewhat. After being our friend through G1 & G2, I'm feeling kind of sad about his turning out to be evil and having to fight him.
- Last but not least, I'd like to have the opportunity to obtain a safe, centrally located place to call "Home" during my travels. A couple of trunks would, of course be required as well.
Well, it looks like this has turned into a monster post, so I better stop now.
Good Hunting! |
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:21 pm |
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druidvideo
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 37
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I want lots of critters to cut into little bits. Oh yeah, and some buxom wenches to slay when I'm finished with them.
preordered and at a stupidly low price
http://play.com/play247.asp?pa=srmr&page=title&r=PC&title=646776
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Druid |
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Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:58 am |
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Stiler
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
Posts: 230
Location: TN, USA |
fudge....i'd pre order that for sure, if only they shipped to the US  |
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Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:18 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by druidvideo
I want lots of critters to cut into little bits. Oh yeah, and some buxom wenches to slay when I'm finished with them.
preordered and at a stupidly low price
http://play.com/play247.asp?pa=srmr&page=title&r=PC&title=646776
Play.com is a great shop. I ordered G2 and SpellForce from them. They´re fast and reliable (but the post needs a week  ). You should remember that they´re located in Jersey, though. Jersey is not a part of the EU. In countries with strict controls you have to pay import sales tax if you´re above the insignificance boarder, which is 20 EUR, I think.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:31 pm |
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