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Andraste_IGE
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 3
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Hi Everyone,
I wanted to quickly jump in here and introduce myself - I'm Andraste,
the Community Relations Manager for IGE (goes into bullet-time dodging
gunfire). 
I know there are a lot of questions, and misconceptions out there about
what we do and how we do it, so I thought this would be a great opportunity to
not only get to know many of you, but to clear up a lot of those
concerns. Such as - we do not participate in nor condone any sort of abusive
farming or duping practices. But instead of boring you guys with a lot of corporate-ese and party
lines, I thought I would just stick my neck out there and say hi and allow you
guys to ask questions - we're more than happy to discuss them with you. 
Best,
Andraste |
Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:13 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Hello and welcome to the forums!
First question: What is IGE?
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:08 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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A site that profits by the contract-breaching selling of in game copywrited assets through many MMORPG.
As stated in the terms of agreement to pretty much any MMO out there currently the trading of server assets, which are privately owned by the company that owns the MMO, is against the end user agreement.
Bottom line: Server assets are not the property of a third party to sell. They have no intellectual or distribution rights to do so.
And before you make some mewling retort that everyone has seen a thousand times let's read this as an example, shall we?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/eula.html
quote:
3. Ownership.
A. All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Game and all copies thereof (including, but not limited to, any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, storylines, character likenesses, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and "applets" incorporated into the Game) are owned or expressly licensed by Licensor. The Game is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions, and other laws. All rights are reserved. The Game may contain certain licensed materials, and the licensors of those materials may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this License Agreement.
So unless Blizzard, as an example, has specifically signed an agreement to IGE to distribute the lines of code that denote 'player owned' assets (and they have not), you are selling goods you CANNOT legally own.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:02 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Thanks, Xen!
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:17 pm |
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Andraste_IGE
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 3
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Hi EverythingXen,
To answer your question, we should first take a look at the secondary market – how it got started, how it continues to grow, and how it is a part of MMO gaming. The secondary market was created by gamers, not IGE. It’s the most significant and successful expression of emergent behavior ever seen in online gaming. Millions of gamers have been taking part in the secondary market before we were part of the market, and would continue to do so whether we existed or not. It isn’t just a fluke in one or two games, but an established growth in almost every single successful online game. I think this is an important point here because it shows that this is something that the gamers want and have wanted for a long time, and it’s not a behavior IGE controls. Rather, we simply provide a secure and safe way for players to take part in the secondary market, which they themselves created, without the risk of getting scammed.
And regarding your question of ownership – our customers, the online gamers, don’t feel they are trading in “company goods.” So we believe we are well within our rights to offer our services to the gaming public. We’re always willing to work directly with publishers to find reasonable solutions, and to provide the best services we possibly can to the online gaming community.
I hope that answers your question, and please don’t hesitate to ask more if you have any. =)
Best,
Andraste |
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Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:55 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Napster, before they went legit, anyone? 
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:51 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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They were wrong to start trading.
They are wrong to keep trading.
They *are* dealing in corporate assets. Perception of ownership is not the same as ownership.
Just because they were committing a crime, as petty as it may be, didn't give sites such as IGE the right to open a market.
I work for an office. I pay a monthly fee for access to the office's health plan. Guess what happens to me if I take access to that health plan and sell it to a person on the street? (I get 80% off ... so if someone gives me 40% to file a claim for them I make a lot of money). Oh, look... insuarance fraud -- damn, jail time. I profitted from something I have no ownership over. Gee, that looks familiar.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:56 pm |
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Andraste_IGE
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 3
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Hi again EverythingXen,
While we feel that’s an unfair analogy, I’m unfortunately not a lawyer and cannot speak to the legal aspects of the “ownership.” However, I can tell you that IGE didn’t create the market; the secondary market for virtual assets was created and continues to be fueled by millions of gamers worldwide who want the freedom to play the way they want—spending less time on repetitive in-game tasks and more time on community and exploration. IGE the company grew out of a need to provide a safe, secure environment online where gamers can buy, sell and trade their assets.
IGE is an advocate for gamers and supports their rights to freely utilize all the assets and currency they have worked so hard in-game to accrue.
Best,
Andraste |
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Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:32 am |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
IGE is the only place I know that sells stuff online for MMORPG, I know there are many others, but it is not something I wish to have anything to do with. My comments in this first part are not meant to be a personal attack against IGE, but rather a comment on the border marketing of MMORPG items for real cash.
Buying and selling makes out of game activities more important that in game activities (who makes the most money is more important the game or its rules). The feelings of working and doing something together are thrown out the window by those who spawn camp to sell for real $$ items and platium. The fun of bazzar trading disappears when you realize that giving someone a good deal on a neat item means they can turn in a 4th quarter real-world profit. When real world profits are involved, it is nolonger a game for anyone. Try sitting down and playing Monoploy with one person who makes real money based on what you do, but you get nothing. No longer can you with relaxed and clear mind have fun helping people do things, because they are getting rich and all you are doing is trying to sit down and have a fun time.
Selling and buying items for these games is the sadest example of capitalism run amock without temperence or care for others who play. If everything is turned into a profit/loss position then everything is nothing more than a day at the store or stock market. Self control is center of playing games with other people. Removing self control by turning the game into a $$ you are lossing the very trait that makes playing the game with others possible. Caring for playing a game sounds dramatic, but you most care enough to obey rules and take care of those who you play with.
The idea in playing a game is to do something enjoyable with others, to feel like you are acomplishing things with others, and to have rules that guide players and level the playing field. Buying and selling for real world money means it is no longer a game. And saying that you have to pay to play so money is involved already is no excuse. I payed for a Monoploy board, but anyone who sits down to play knows that that is it for costs.
Now directly to what Andraste_IGE has said in his last post. I dont call buying stuff for the game as 'worked so hard in-game". Worked hard ingame should be just that, no outside buying and selling needed. By doing so it is nolonger "in-game". You also talk about rights of the player, but what about rigths of the game maker? Dont they have the right to use thier copy righted matteral in the way they choice? What about the law? Shouldnt we care enough to obey it? More imporantly, when we give our word on a end user license agreement, shouldn't we respect ourselves enought to keep it? It doesn't matter how the market evolved, just is it doesn't matter how the illegal drug market evolved; breaking the law is still illegal reguardless of market presures. Ask former Enron employees or the former CEO of Tyco.
This shouldnt come across as hateful or mean, that is not how I treat people, but I wont lightly step around this issue either. You came to a place where a regularly read & post and opened yourself up for questions and discussion so that what I give you. No hard feelings about hard questions, as long as real discussion is going on.
LB |
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Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:42 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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It doesn't have to be a fair analogy because it's an accurate analogy.
Fortunately, you don't need to speak about the legal aspects of ownership. That's what the big legal teams that draw up the terms of agreement that all users consent to (and that you are breaking since at some point you play the game to aquire the assets for trade) before play are for.
Please. IGE is not about empowering gamers. It's a company. It's about making money. Where there is profit to be had there will be someone turning a profit. You exploit the laziness of people for profit.
Your very attitude screams "Well, if it wasn't us it would be someone else." That is correct. It does not excuse the violation of the terms of agreement all parties make when purchasing resources from a non-affiliate.
We both sound like broken records at this point. There is one small difference between us, though. Legally, I'm right. Until IGE successful takes Blizzard, Sony Online Entertainment, Square-Enix, and several other companies to court and gets a ruling that these companies do not in fact own everything on their hardware and therefore have no right to determine what people do with their rented propery I will continue to be right.
I repeat: You do not empower gamers. You merely make it harder for those of us who do not partake of your services to play on even footing with those players who do.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:28 am |
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