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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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You have probably heard of the riots over the cartoons dipicting Muhammad.
The publisher was within his right. If Muslims has voiced a peaceful protest over these pictures, I would have said that they paper should apologize and refrain from publishing any further cartoons. Now that various populations have resorted to violent protest, I say that newspapers should publish such cartoons everyday until the right to free speech is understood and taken for granted. What do you think?
I know Muslims find it offensive. I don't take the offense of other people lightly, but the right to free speech is more important than the privilege not to be offended by what someone says.
What do you think?
_________________
Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:06 pm |
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Dez
King of the Realms
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 455
Location: Fortress of Tell Halaf |
quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
You have probably heard of the riots over the cartoons dipicting Muhammad.
The publisher was within his right. If Muslims has voiced a peaceful protest over these pictures, I would have said that they paper should apologize and refrain from publishing any further cartoons. Now that various populations have resorted to violent protest, I say that newspapers should publish such cartoons everyday until the right to free speech is understood and taken for granted. What do you think?
I know Muslims find it offensive. I don't take the offense of other people lightly, but the right to free speech is more important than the privilege not to be offended by what someone says.
What do you think?
I think everything in our democracy is built on free speech. If a society will set limits what can be said and what can't be said, the idea of free speech won't come true anymore. The main thing in our culture is that people have a right to exress or say things which may not allways please everyone. IF we start thinking what can be said, so that we would not displease some muslims we would soon find ourselves living in a society that is not a real democracy.
This is what separates us from narrow-minded islamic countries. Some of muslims say that we don't tolerate their beliefs. That is untrue. If I'd like to build a christian church in their country, do you think they would allow it? In many cases the goverment wouldn't just allow it. For instance in Saudi Arabia it is ILLEGAL to rehearse any other religion than ISLAM. In many arabian countries is quite normal to mock at other religions like judaism, christian faith. In that context those cartoons were nothing.
Certainly releasing those cartoons was not a good taste and if i was the editor-in-chif, I may have given some thought whether the release of these images would be worth of all the trouble it can cause during these times.
Those muslims have a right to be angry and even boycott some danish products beacause of it. I do understand it. However they don't have any right to destroy embasies or threaten other people with bombs. It is quite ironic that those lunatics behave just like in the cartoons 
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The focused mind can pierce through stone |
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Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:51 pm |
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Lostnumber
Head Merchant
Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 52
Location: An ugly brown desk |
I would like to weigh in on this...
It is horribly evident that we live in a world rife with double standards, easily bruised egos, and inflated differences. It is ironic that being stereotyped with a disposition toward violence would in the end incite violence from those being stereotyped, but that has little to do with my point. No matter what one does or what one believes in someone in this world will find the others actions and beliefs silly. It would be easy to be offended in a self-rightcheous manner if one forgot that they are just as guilty of condescension. In the end though everyone thinks that something someone else does or believes in is stupid. Will the world ever come to agree to disagree? Will ignorance ever be routed out of the minds of different peoples? Across the entire spectrum of the world's religions there are no hard truths, no concrete facts that would allow a faith or belief to transcend into fact. They are all faiths or beliefs, and there are many. Any one person should be entitled to believe what they would like, and should also be able to disagree with what another believes in. However, one should also be prepared to be met with the same degree of aggression in another’s skepticism as that same person has shown for that very person. One should expect conversation when conversing, and should equally expect aggression when attacking. It is no secret that politics has had its influential hand in the war amongst religions, and that religion has had the same influence on conflicting political ideologies. Placing that relationship aside, Muslims, Christians, and Jews have been fighting on the grounds of belief alone for just as long. Is a moldy book, a stone pillar, a black cube, or a lost ship worth the life of another. As far as anyone truly knows all of the above are just material objects. Sure they are tied into very strong beliefs, but it ends with that, just strong beliefs, not facts. This violence is not going to solve anything, and will only solidify a stereotype. Personally a few car bombs and many more dead innocents (children, bystanders and the like) deserve a derogatory cartoon. In the end though people really need to stop taking themselves so seriously, they really only wind up looking stupid. |
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Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:28 pm |
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cptmaxon
High Emperor
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 557
Location: Israel |
well the right for free speech is an important corner stone for every democracy, problem is with most arab countries is that they are a dictotorship usually a military one, so you can't really impose your values on them, they simply don't see this issue the same as you or I do.
I think the denish newspaper should have never publish these things, however I also think the muslims reacted in ways far worse and exactly as the cartoon depicted thier religion.
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"We're still flying"
"it's not much"
"It's enough" |
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Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:35 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
The cartoons are pretty mild to be honest - not much to them at all. Muslims are entitled to be offended, disappointed, upset - whatever - but not violent. Those (few?) that embrace violent retribution are unfortunately proving the stereotype the west has of them and, frankly, deserve our disdain. I quite liked the one with the cartoonist looking nervously over his shoulder - nicely ironic.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:56 am |
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horst wessel
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto |
You're correct, these cartoons are very harmless in nature.
However, the times are evil... Islam is experiencing some very serious troubles. The Bible was written in many different languages, throughout many different epoches- and by very different people. As a consequence, it can be interpreted in many ways. Hence, Christianity has a very good way of coping with the way society changes- it can be re-interpreted virtually any way, and remain wholsome at the same time.
Islam, however... Quaran is written by one person, in a very short period of time, and in a fairly modern language- and, what is more important, it was written while Mohammed was in power. It contains many straightforward directins as to how to run a state.
That's how, in our times- when progress kicks out all religious influences from the systems of education, market, and government- Islam is in big trouble. It contradicts, in many ways, the way of life that the modernity dictates. It is very hard to re-interpret Quaran- with it's endless "thou shalt's" and "thou shalt not's"...
That is why it is hardly surprising that there is more and more unrest in Islam- governed countries, who encounter free thinking and choice that is rises in the developed world. What are you gonna do? They need a new prophet. |
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Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:29 pm |
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jeffreyu
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 16
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i think the danish cartoon was a dumb thing to do in the first place.those who conceptualize this little controversy acted like a true blooded gestapo.i dont think that they didnt forsee what the reactions of the muslims against this. i remember being disgusted watching an episode of southpark cartoon where they did a fight scene between Jesus and the fat guy in red.i understand why the muslims behaved the way they did under the circumstances.if democracy means making fun and exploiting something holy for others,then its worthless. |
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Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:38 am |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
There might have been something wrong with these jokes with how they were published and so on.
Anyway, the reaction of Arab world quite clearly shows the huge differences between us and what we can expect from these countries. |
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Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:54 am |
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horst wessel
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto |
True.
Even famous for its absolute stupidity American biblebelt didn't want to kill Monty Python for The Life of Brian |
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Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:16 am |
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bjon045
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 234
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Arab - western relationships will always be strained. Maybe when we discover an "Earth 2" half the globe can relocate there and everyone can live in peace.
I bags living on earth 2. |
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Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:35 am |
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jeffreyu
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 16
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What some of us lack is respect in all aspect, be it religion or politics there has to be respect.For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.thats nelson mandela speaking! |
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Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:17 am |
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Irf
High Emperor
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 1032
Location: England |
quote:
Originally posted by horst wessel
You're correct, these cartoons are very harmless in nature.
And who are you to claim they are harmless? Are you a Muslim yourself? I don't think so. What may not offend you can be deeply offensive to someone else. For a Muslim insulting our religion is just like someone insulting your mother, father and your entire family in the sickest way.
Though I, and the majority of Muslims, disagree with the minority of muslims using unneccasry violence I can understand how they feel. Anyways, as far as i know no Danes were harmed in the violence since they all evacuated the embassies.
Just remember that with freedom of speech comes responsibility, the newspaper staff knew what they were doing and they did it simply to get a little joke out of it. Does it seem right to deeply offend a quarter of the world so a few sick fools can get a little giggle?
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=Mercenary of the Gothic Rogues=
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Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:36 am |
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bjon045
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 234
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quote:
Originally posted by Irf
And who are you to claim they are harmless? Are you a Muslim yourself? I don't think so. What may not offend you can be deeply offensive to someone else. For a Muslim insulting our religion is just like someone insulting your mother, father and your entire family in the sickest way.
So what? I certainly don't take offence when someone I don't know tries to make a wise crack or possiblity a racist remark. I simply disregard that person as an idiot not worthy of my attention.
quote:
Originally posted by Irf
Just remember that with freedom of speech comes responsibility, the newspaper staff knew what they were doing and they did it simply to get a little joke out of it. Does it seem right to deeply offend a quarter of the world so a few sick fools can get a little giggle?
This arguement doesn't make a lot of sense. Do you take offence when someone calls you a name on the street? Why do you even care what anyone else has to say about you? Bear in mind this is just the opinion of one entity and it was not even state sponsored. The way quite a few muslims have been acting recently makes them no better than thugs who think they can hit someone because they looked at them funny. |
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Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:19 am |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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quote:
And who are you to claim they are harmless? Are you a Muslim yourself? I don't think so. What may not offend you can be deeply offensive to someone else. For a Muslim insulting our religion is just like someone insulting your mother, father and your entire family in the sickest way.
And what makes a Muslim so important that he has the right to cause physical harm to someone because he was offended, by someone in another country no less.
These ideas do threaten to harm. But they harm a certain idea, not the people themselves. What makes this idea so meritworthy that it is a crime to discuss it? How do you know that it is, if the idea has never been ridiculed? It may shine or it may drown among other ideas. But you will never know until it is tested.
These pictures are just ideas. However, protected ideas are not subject to the normal scrutiny that other ideas are. As such they are protected, but that protection is not based on the actual merit that the idea deserves. But rather strength of the protection that the idea deserves. These ideas are not standing on their own strength, they are leaning on a crutch. This hurts the people who subscribe to these protected ideas. Everyone around them evolves and refines their thinking while these people remain stagnant.
The true point, the reason behing the reason, is that someone is controlling the ideas that come to the various Muslim populations and controlling those populations in the process. The true question is "Why Now?" why are these pictures that were run in September just beginning to surface in Islamic countries now? Who is it that saw them, sat on them, and decided to release them now? What is special about this time? What is going on the someone wants large swaths of the Muslim population enraged and focused on these 5-month old cartoons? What is it that they don't want these Muslim people to see?
It is just unwise for any man to allow himself to be offended to the point of violence so easily. It just plain dangerous to lose your cool that easily. Angry people don't think straight. People who don't think straight are usually victims, but they don't always know it.
quote:
Just remember that with freedom of speech comes responsibility,....
How would a Muslim journalist know?,...He doesn't have freedom of speech. I say that because if you can't say whatever you want to say, without being threatened by violence, then you don't have freedom of speech. If you are a journalist in a Muslim country you have no frame of reference for freedom of speech or the responsibilities or duties that come with it.
quote:
the newspaper staff knew what they were doing and they did it simply to get a little joke out of it. Does it seem right to deeply offend a quarter of the world so a few sick fools can get a little giggle?
Believe me, the people who are protesting over this are paying FAR more attention to it than are the people who read it in the paper. In Christian countries with freedom of speech, someone ridicules your religion everyday. All it does is separated the true believer from those who only appear to believe because they have no choice.
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Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:17 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
quote:
Originally posted by Irf
What may not offend you can be deeply offensive to someone else.
Exactly.
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Jaz |
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Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:37 pm |
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