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damienvryce
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 3
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| Are Sony and lucasart pushing consumers too far? |
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Hi everyone,
I've been visiting RPGdot now everyday for over 2 years, but it's my first post in the forums here. I've been an avid fan of RPG's all my life. When this whole MMORPG online revolution started, I was very excited. The first RPG I've ever played was UO, which I started playing 9 months after launch. I've had a blast playing UO, and met a lot of people online playing the game. I stopped playing and lost interest when origin split the world in two (Felluca and Trammel). Next games I tried where AO (from day one, with all the horror stories you've heard from the games launch). Ao is a good game, and I m sure, got better with time. But I had trouble finding a 'niche' in the game, and other roleplayers to play with. But the game was good even from the start. DAOC was another matter, the game had a stable launch but it never hooked me. I played for 2 months and got bored. I then tooka break from MMORPG's before playing AC2 (like AO, from launch day). AC2 is an excellent game and was very stable from the start. It was probably the best launch ever for a MMORPG game. I like this game a lot but only played for 2 months. The reason for that is that the servers were mostly empty (even on Frostfell at peak hours), and most of the time, I had the impression I was playing an MMORPG single player
So I cancelled my subscription and decided to wait few months or a year and then maybe try again. Now that they turbine is merging servers in AC2, I might try again soon...
Which brings me to star wars galaxies. Like many people, I ve been a big star wars fan for a long time and have been waiting impatiently for this game. I ve not bought the game yet because I was afraid the game would nt be ready for release (and it was nt). I ve read a lot of reviews saying that it was an ambitious game, but was riddled with bugs, lack of content and features and that we might actually start seeing the games potential in 6 months or so, after numerous patches. Which brings me to this: Don t you think that sony and lucasart are exaggerating just a bit with their 15$ price tag for a month of play? The game is riddled with bugs, they seem to offer less services than in other games (only 1char per server and they save you char for only 5 days after cancelling your account), the re seems to be tons of features missing (more so than other launches from other MMORPGs). I know it's the Star Wars franchise but aren t they pushing their luck a bit too far? I for one am hesitating a lot to try this game, even in 5 or 6 months for the bugs to be ironed out. Is this game really that much better than the other games out there? What justifies the premium monthly price tag? THe thing that scares me with this is that all the new games coming out will now charge 15$ or more a month even though the game doesn t offer mush more. What are your thoughts on this. |
Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:00 am |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
Well, this is a mixed bag, and different people will have different opinions. But in my opinion, the question really isn't wether the game has more or less, but if the game is worth $15 on its own, without comparing it with other games. Yes, charging $15 is pushing the enveloppe a little too far in my mind. Not because it will give an excuse to other publishers to charge $15 dollars too, but because it will make it seem ok for others to charge even more! I can't wait to see what they'll charge for Middle Earth Online...
Anyway... My point is that SWG is worth the $15 per month, but not because it has "more" things. Because it does the same things a little differently. Now, mind you, not everyone may like how it goes about doing these things, that's normal. Not everyone can like the same things. But SWG does make an effort to do things differently, and that is a good thing in general (wether it works or not).
As far as things "missing" from the launch, I disagree with you when you say that there are more things missing from launch than other games in the past. To my knowledge, there are only three things really missing since launch: Creature Mounts, Player vehicles, and player cities. Now, one of these is already in testing and we should see it in the next few weeks. When the other two will be implemented is anybody's guess, but as far as it seems to be going the wait shouldn't be a year 
That all being said, nothing justifies the price tag. Actually, nothing justifies a $13 price tag either, except for the inherent costs of running MMORPGs. In SWG's case, with 20 servers full already, I doubt that they *really* had to charge $15, but hey, what was stopping them? I agree with you: it's a little hard to swallow. And I guess you have multiple choices in front of you. Either you choose not to play the game and maybe even protest against SWG (a lot of people seem to do that), or you try the game for a month and see how you like it before deciding if the $15 is worth it for you. I guess your opinion is the best one of all as far as you are concerned
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
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Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:01 pm |
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Slachkey
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 34
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I agree with most of what has been said. Ultimatly we as gamers have to decide for ourselves if we are willing to pay the monthly fee. Be it 10 dollars a month, or 50 dollars a month.
Now, I personally don't think that 15 dollars a month is too much. At this point though I won't be paying any monthly fee to play SWG. Maybe sometime in the future, but not now. For me though, it's not because I think they are charging more then the game is worth, but because I'm not having any fun playing the game. I wouldn't even pay 1 dollar a month to keep my account open.
But if a game were to come out that really hooked me I would not have a problem paying 15 dollars a month. Of course, with each generation mmorpg raising the monthly fee a little bit, where will the line be drawn? |
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Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:40 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I agree with the original poster. The fact is this: Yes they are pushing us too hard for requiring $15 subscription fee for an incomplete game. Sony has set the precedent for fees. Now most new mmorpgs are going to adopt the $15 fee, i can guarantee it. They should have left it at $12.95. I dont play SWG. But i probably will play EQ2, and i fully expect it to cost me $15 because Sony already established a new standard in fees. |
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Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:13 pm |
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damienvryce
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 3
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I understand the point of vue Ekim makes about SWG being worth 15$ a month. But where I disagree is that SWG is a product and as a product, it is inevitably compared to other similar products. So, yes I guess SWG would have to offer something more than other MMORPGs to justify a bigger price tag (and graphics don't count in that equation). Is the interface better than in other games? The quests? The customer service? The community? The options available to players? Are they making the consumers pay more because they took their time in beta testing the game and released it bug free? I'm pretty sure thats not the case. I'm just having a hard time finding out why they are charging more for this game, other than it's a Star Wars game and they are trying to cash in on that. |
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Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:28 am |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by damienvryce
I'm just having a hard time finding out why they are charging more for this game, other than it's a Star Wars game and they are trying to cash in on that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend SWG, and I too am kind of looking for reasons why they even are charging more. Even if they did have more things than other MMORPGs, that's not even a good reason to charge more, it's just a reason to make more money.
But SWG does have slightly more than some other MMORPGs out there (whether some would agree or not, and even if the quality of these things are what was expected out of the game). Gameplay certainly offers quite a bit more variety in SWG than any other MMORPG we've been offered in the past. 10 huge worlds to explore - and they are huge. Virtually unlimited character development options.
There is more. The question is: Is that really what you want to pay more for? And the answer to that will be different from person to person.
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Worshiper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:09 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I think it's inevitable that this will utlimately see most large MMO games drifting to this pricepoint and the next big-name release will probably push a little further - and that's a pity.
However, that's the way of an open market. Clearly they have a high-profile product with huge market potential - arguably the best "brand" you can get. They would not be doing their job if they didn't charge the highest price the market could bear; if nothing else they have a responsibility to their shareholders to get the best return possible. |
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Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:35 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I dont see the "superior gameplay" that they promised the fans to justify the raising of the bar in SWG subscription pricing. I think they are delusional at best, or blatantly high-minded liars at worst. If SWG has superior gameplay, i would still be playing it. But it doesnt, so im not. End of story for me. By the time it has real content in it, i will playing the REAL games that have REAL superior gameplay, not a hollow treelog with mushrooms growing in it that resemble yoda. May the force be with you. I hereby dub the game Star Wars Falacies! or better yet, Star Crafting Wars!
But im still glad that all of you delusional people are having fun. Even delusioned people suffering from delusions can have fun i guess. |
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Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:10 am |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Ammon777
But im still glad that all of you delusional people are having fun. Even delusioned people suffering from delusions can have fun i guess.
If you have nothing constructive to say, why bother?
Why call us delusional? I don't consider myself delusional, I just like something that you don't...  And as far as the $15 issue goes, I agree it's a lot, but personally I think the game is worth it. If you don't that's fine, but don't think I'm delusional because I do...
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=Proud Father of a new gamer GIRL!=
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Worshiper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:41 pm |
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Zamolxis
Village Dweller
Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 13
Location: Arkansas |
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
I think it's inevitable that this will utlimately see most large MMO games drifting to this pricepoint and the next big-name release will probably push a little further - and that's a pity.
However, that's the way of an open market. Clearly they have a high-profile product with huge market potential - arguably the best "brand" you can get. They would not be doing their job if they didn't charge the highest price the market could bear; if nothing else they have a responsibility to their shareholders to get the best return possible.
Companies have seen the success of Everquest, DAoC, UO and everyone jumped on the train to make a mmorpg which offers like a continous monthly revenue (compared with normal games for which you just buy the game and that's all). So to me it looks a little like a gold rush, everyone tries to come out with a game fast while there is still some market left to conquer. But from what I've seen the last few mmorpgs didn't live to their expectations (AC2 for example) and I think now people are becoming more and more selective.
Personally I'm going to vote with my pocket, and not going to buy any of the these new mmorpgs unless I really think they are worth it. |
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Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:49 pm |
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Kiff
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Indiana |
Yes. They are charging too much. Down with SOE, Down with SOE, Down with SOE. Or at least down with the price for a crappy game. Bark Bark. Never mind down with the price...make a better friggin game. Poor poor newbies. |
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Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:30 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Sorry for calling you delusional. 
Last edited by Ammon777 on Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:54 pm |
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Ligi
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 39
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I am sure that MOST people that plays MMRPGs for 3 years or more will say that they are pushing too far (me included).
But Sony and Lucas knows perfectly what market they are investing in. In other words they didnt aim SWG to the experienced MMRPG gamers. They wanted to get new and fresh players to the genre and they succeeded.
The problem is that most of the people playing SWG dont have references, they cant compare and thats great for Sony.
Entering the MMRPG genre is always a unique experience even for experienced single player gamers, but I think they diserved better from SWG.
I would never advice anyone to play SWG as a first MMRPG. |
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Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:51 am |
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vaticide
Put food in here
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Posts: 1122
Location: One step behind a toddler bent on destruction. |
I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree with most everyone here. If Sony and Lucasarts were pushing consumers too far, they would not have a successful game. People aren't buying the game because they need to, so the price can be arbitrarily set to whatever they feel will be the best for their Profit and Loss margin. If $15 per month was not worth it to 300,000+ players (or however many it is) then they simply would not be paying to play. The price point might leave some dissapointed because they cannot afford to play it, but as Ekim pointed out you will have dissapointment with any price point. The problem really lies in the business model that MMORGPs have chosen thus far, but they will figure that out soon.
-vaticide |
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Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:54 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Ligi
In other words they didnt aim SWG to the experienced MMRPG gamers. They wanted to get new and fresh players to the genre and they succeeded.
I think that your view here is a little skewed. Or maybe mine is, who knows. But what I'm wondering is this: Did SoE intentionally make their game to attract more "new" players to the genre, as I think you're saying? Or did they infact recognize that no matter what they did the Star Wars name itself would attract new players to the genre, and because of that fact adapted their production so that it would be more "newb" friendly?
See, I think they actually adapted. Because, quite honestly, even if they had made this game a true "hard-core" mmorpg that would have strictly been for experienced players of the genre (whatever that can possibly mean  ...), new people would STILL have flocked to the game in droves, no matter what!! So why alienate a potential market? A bigger market in fact, because we all know that casual players outnumber power-gamers, but that casual gamers have, so far, avoided this genre because it has always seemed to be more power-gamer-friendly (even though it's really not always the case).
EDIT:
One last thing... I wouldn't recommend SWG to anyone new to the genre either, but not for the same reasons as you. I've often said that I would never recommend an mmorpg to new players unless it's been on the market for AT LEAST 6 months. Because before then it's often just a big mess, and I've seen worse than SWG. A player that's new to the genre would be better served by playing a well established game first, but who's listening to me? hehe!
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=Proud Father of a new gamer GIRL!=
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Worshiper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:32 pm |
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