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Dagger Fall
Village Dweller
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 3
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| Ending of KOTOR I disappointing? [SPOILER] |
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I feel that the ending of KOTOR I poses a major disappointment after a very good game. Even though KOTOR is a 'fetch-the-item' rpg of which there are so many nowadays, the story is just fine. Lots of plot changes which were quite unsuspected, the developers did just fine. The only bad thing is when your happy, jedi avatar reaches the end of his (or her) epic-story and he (or she) sets foot on the Starforge. From that moment on the game has no more story, no more dialogues or intriguing plot changes it's just your average hack'n slash rpg.
There should have been other options for Bioware in creating the end sequence. Not only is Malak way too strong (it makes you almost feel your own avatar is a wimp), but also the battles on the Star Forge are tedious. I can stand a wave of apprentices, stormtroopers and dark jedi's, but if that is all the game can throw at you to stall the ending it is not very creative.
The game was, no IS, excellent until you arrive on the Starforge. You can just sense it is the end of a game. No more dialogue from your own NPC's (for example all Bastilla has to offer when playing DS is: "Malak is growing stronger with every minute, we must move on" or something like that). I understand we don't have time for smalltalk when there is a fight going on but I feel that the creative team behind KOTOR could have done much more and giving a more creative and fullfilling ending.
Now a brilliant game ends with fighting wave after wave, after wave, after wave of apprentices and other dark folks (who at that time offer no more challenge then simply being a nuisance in terms of progression to your npc's) and a unbelievable strong Darth Malak.
Last edited by Dagger Fall on Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:55 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Well, you didn't expect the bad guy to only be defended by a few token lackeys, did you? 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
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Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:16 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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By the time you make it to the Star Forge, the time for talking is over. There is a time to talk, but there is also a time to kick ***.
By the way, if you thought Malak was weak it is because of your character design. When you play again try a different character build.
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Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:44 pm |
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tolgerias
High Emperor
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 770
Location: The Netherlands |
| Re: Ending of KOTOR I disappointing? [SPOILER] |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagger Fall
Now a brilliant game ends with fighting wave after wave, after wave, after wave of apprentices and other dark folks (who at that time offer no more challenge then simply being a nuisance in terms of progression to your npc's) and a unbelievable strong Darth Malak.
@ darrius I donīt think Dagger Fall found Malak weak.
I have to admid I was pretty dissapointed by the final moments too, some talky-talk before hell breaks loose never hurts anybody 
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Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:08 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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Oops, I meant to say "too strong." If he builds his character properly he can make quick work of Malak without using stimulants. With stimulants he will be looking for more difficult ways to kill him.
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Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:33 pm |
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Dagger Fall
Village Dweller
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 3
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quote:
Originally posted by Val
Well, you didn't expect the bad guy to only be defended by a few token lackeys, did you?
No you're absolutely right Val I do understand he is heavily guarded, you'd expect that. But there could have been more 'fun' ways to guard him then just throwing wave after wave of apprentices and dark jedi's at you. Perhaps the Star Forge could have been more of a 'sentient being', it does have a 'weak spot'  for the Dark Side as Malak claims. So maybe they could have made you 'battle' your own dark feelings on board. There could also have been some cruel decision's, maybe one of your teammates gets captured (they can be put in 'stasis' anytime as Bastila once again proves onboard the Star Forge), where you have to answer questions and a wrong answer gets him/her killed. Well just making up some things as I write this message, but that is what I mean by a more 'creative' way of ending the game. I feel that Bioware did not put as much effort in making a good, fullfilling endgame as they did with the rest of KOTOR I |
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Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:44 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Hmm... that idea sounds reminiscent of Baldur's Gate 2.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:03 pm |
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Whailor
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 423
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
Some spoilerish stuff, but anywho...
Wait then until you see KOTOR 2 ending. Frankly, the whole story between the 2 games is weak. First if you finish as a lightsider, you sort of bring the 'peace' to the Republic when you kick Malak's butt. Sure, it's not a total peace as there are definately Sith remnants here and there, but overall they were decimated at the battle near Star Forge and those who are left are just stagglers.
And then, suddenly, with KOTOR 2 the jedis are almos all killed, Jedi Order has scattered and the Republic is about to collapse. What the... Weak story, weak. Not to mention that when I played KOTOR 2, I never really could shake the feeling that the WHOLE KOTOR 2 was nothing more then a 'prelude' to next game, KOTOR 3. If there ever will be KOTOR 3, which remains as a question, but anyways. KOTOR 2 story and ending was pretty weak, nothing was really revealed, nothing really led anywhere. Whole story was around the dissapearance of Revan, who most likely went to Outer Rim to find the 'real' sith'ari and how the current 'bad guys' tried to make a whole sector of the known Galaxy 'mute' to the Force, by killing off jedi's, eliminating all Force sensitive sentients they found, killing off whole planets of Force sensitive people. For what reason? To open one sector in the Galaxy for Sith'ari's invasion, the 'real Sith' invasion? Throughout the whole KOTOR serie as it is, there is the story about the "real Sith", who are gone for many centurie's, but one day will return and kill everyone. If you spoke with that twilek Sith master back in Korriban in KOTOR 1 more then once, then she spoke about that sith legend. All the siths before Malak, before Exar Kun were just puppets, corrupted ex-jedi's who wanted the power, but none was REAL sith. Of course, no one knows what or who is the 'real sith'. And it probably isn't the rakatans and their Empire, as they destroyed themselves, basically, but the 'threat in Outer Rim and beyond' was still out there even at current time of KOTOR and KOTOR 2. We never even learnt where exactly Revan went, as only one who knew it was that little rust-bucket T2 and it, for whatever silly reason, erased all the memory it had. Though, note that the Ebon Hawk's navcomputer still had the data, but was voice locked, most likely by Revan.
So yeah, I sort of have a feeling that there might also be KOTOR 3, though I REALLY hope that the story will be worked on hard then by Devs, as story in KOTOR 2 sucked. KOTOR 1 was quite OK, which of course is fine knowing who made it.
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Been there, done that . . . |
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Thu May 12, 2005 11:22 am |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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KOTOR 2 was clearly rushed and released before its originally intended completion. It has holes in its story and even has an entire section left out of it. I too, had a feeling that it was supposed to be a part of the bigger KOTOR story. I don't have a problem with that, as long as the game advances the story line, which it doesn't. The game goes off on some tangent about the minor struggles of another unknown Jedi. At the end, the game redirects our attention towards Revan and this coming threat from the true sith, but none of the previous gameplay lead up to finding Revan. The ending makes it seem like the events of the game were of no importance at all.
KOTOR is the only game series at LucasArts that is meeting expectations. Therefore, I know there will be a KOTOR 3 the same way I know there will be another Star Wars movie even though Lucas is saying there will be no more, the money will mandate its creation. I just hope that LucasArts gives the developers of the next game time to do it right.
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Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Thu May 12, 2005 3:29 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
I find the complaints of leaving story unfinished odd. Yes this is only an installment in the story of 'what happened' ... but I like it that there is a hole for the next game to nestle into.
Many good games do not answer all the questions, and yes it is a touch annoying to have to wait for the answer to the questions 'but what did Revan find, where did he go, and what happened to him'. But on the other paw, it does leave to door wide open for KotOR 3 ... not a bad thing if it keeps pace with the other two (assuming it ever gets published).
I have only seen the LS ending, but I would not call it a story of "minor struggles of another unknown Jedi". My understanding of the ending had my heroine as the founder of a new, revitalized Jedi knighthood that helps to re-invigorate a moribund Republic. Sounds like a pretty danged blasted important Jedi to me! Minor struggles? Once again, stopping the two biggest known Sith lords (one of who is determined to end all life) also seems pretty danged important to me, not a minor struggle at all. The Jedi philosophy, the Republic, and all life (apparently) are all saved in spoiling what seemed to be an insidious, and fail proof plot. Once again, minor struggles?
I can see where the subtleties of the story may have escaped some out there (heck, I know *I* had to stop and think about things a number of times ... really sorry I missed the tomb on Korriban the first time through), but the main thrust was clear and the story line anything but a 'minor struggle'.
While the story is VERY linear (outside of choosing what world to visit/revisit next), I found the tale interesting and well paced ... enough so that I just HAD to see how it differed when played from the DS.
As an example of the depth and good timing of the game, on my first play through I *knew* Kreia had her own motives and plan, but I was only able to get a rough feel for it until about the time she splits - and was still not 100% clear until the final showdown.
Oh, and one last observation, if this was a 'rushed' title, then what do you call M&M 9? A beta demo? M&M 9 was clearly a rushed title ... (compare the (mostly) completed dungeons at end with those at the empty and spartan like creations at the begining, and even then the ending dungeons had dozens of empty drawers (not a single filled one ... seems pretty clear they were *intended* to be filled, but time ran out)).
What entire section is left out? I saw no obvious holes ... maybe some questionable design choices, but no gapping holes.
Anyway, while not the greatest game ever made (can there be such a thing?), I am very much enjoying a second play through ... a rarity for me. And if there is a third in the series I will most likely buy it too ... and much more quickly than #2 - which I waited until many review were in before starting last month - as I had my doubts that it could be anywhere near as good as the first.
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Thu May 12, 2005 5:38 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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I found the overall premise of the game to be lacking urgency on a galactic scale. I found Nilihus and Atris to be underdeveloped. The did surprisingly little in the story given that they represent the public face of the game. Nilihus wasn't even a difficult fight. Kreia's motivation for doing all of he evil seems to be somewhat 'petty'. She came off as insane rather than evil.
There was supposed to be a board in the game where HK confronts whomever has been replicating him. There is dialogue that you can follow to unlock the level, but the level itself has been cut so the issue can not be resolved.
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Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Thu May 12, 2005 6:44 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
... Kreia's motivation for doing all of he evil seems to be somewhat 'petty'. She came off as insane rather than evil.
True! She is a wacked out old biddy that is has been disillusioned and abused by both Jedi and Sith (at least in her world view), but she is still very, very powerful. She a force of balance, neither LS nor DS, but balance -- always does she stress a balance. I thought her character a refreshing change from the run of the mill uber villian. For her it IS all personal.
Nilihus not being a difficult fight I can deal with ... his is the power of death and his driving impulse is to eat users of the force. A thinking rational being with a resistance to his power should find him an easy foe. He is just a beast, not even driven by hate anymore, just an all consuming hunger.
I am sorry that the HK scene was removed (HK is one of my favorites in the series) ... or not completed, but deleting one scene does *not* make the game incomplete or rushed. Have you ever watched the 'deleted scene' cuts from a DVD? Many good scenes do not make the final movie ... sometimes a rationale is given, sometimes it is not. I don't know why this particular scene was cut ... it could be something as simple as a branch in the story that was left on the cutting room floor early on because it did not flow well, and not all the hooks were cleaned up or it could be time ran out. *shrug* Personally, I don't know, and don't care enough to research it as I like the game as it is, missing scene and all! Who knows, maybe that cut scene will make an appearance in the next installment (if there is one).
As to the game lacking urgency on a galactic scale ... well, we'll just have to disagree on that one *grin* No rational agruments here, this is a 'gut feel' question, and on that score the game worked for me, but not you ... I also like uni*, but most others do not. Cool.
* Raw sea urchin ... don't know what kind of urchin, since they come in warm water and cold water flavors, Atlantic and Pacific versions, as well as striped spines and non striped, some have poison on the spines, others do not. All I know is I like the version served under the title of "uni" when ordering in a Japanesse restaurant.
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Thu May 12, 2005 7:00 pm |
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Toaster
Bread Alert
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 5475
Location: Sweden |
My largest complaint with this game is those crazy Jedi Masters! First you find them and rescue them, and both he on Nar Shadaa and he on Onderon seems to be happy to see you return, but then you go to the enclave, and all of a sudden they blame everything the Sith did on you, and decide to strip you of the force, even though you have light mastery! Weird.
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Fri May 13, 2005 10:45 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Toaster
My largest complaint with this game is those crazy Jedi Masters! First you find them and rescue them, and both he on Nar Shadaa and he on Onderon seems to be happy to see you return, but then you go to the enclave, and all of a sudden they blame everything the Sith did on you, and decide to strip you of the force, even though you have light mastery! Weird.
Agreed! Last night I my DS charcter took out the Jedi on Nar Shadaa (I tried to remember his name, but can't) ... an act that caused me much angst ... for the first time! Of all the evil acts, that one bothered me the most ... and I didn't even get any DS points for it!! Of all the masters he was the only one that acted with any remorse. The other haughty scum I had no trouble scragging, but this guy ... he hurt. I couldn't help but feel there was some way to convert him to the DS ... but he would not go (or I was getting impatient with the discussion can't really tell).
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Fri May 13, 2005 10:54 am |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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I also have a problem with how easy they are to kill. I especially dislike how easily Kreia just killed all three of them using the force with no problem at all.
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Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Fri May 13, 2005 4:30 pm |
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