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FreetheWeed
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 1
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let's be honest
We can only imagine what kind of game the PC users would have really gotten if this game would have not been made with the X box limitations. And that's a real shame because PC gamers are the ones that made the Elder Scrolls famous.
The graphics are obviously better, but I don't think the rest of the game improve that much. It is awfully dumbed down, I don't understand why they made this game so ridiculously easy as far as the quests go. I guess it was for the X box 12 year olds.
But even that doesn't make sense, I don't think they would be interested in wine and vineyards.
If you get a quest to go see someone in a certain town then you should have to go find him, not a big red or green arrow showing up that points them out. There are several things like this that takes the fun out of exploring.
The AI in my opinion are "not all whole lot smarter" for all the hype they get, they are still dumb as dirt. And they are capable of some really extreme behavior for no obvious reason.
The creatures and NPC's in oblivion if you play it out of the box are ridiculous. It's the attack of the mud crab! The wolves, the bear all will follow you for miles and it's ridiculous. The AI have no sense of self survival at all, the only thing they know how to do is attack you, to the death.
And they spent too much money on the Star Trek guy, and should of got some more voice actors, under the age of 80, that one a woman sounds like she's gonna croak.
When you talk to some of the in NPCs they will speak to you in a multiple voices sometimes, like their schizophrenic or possessed. And it's quite easy to tell some of the dialogue is just being read off the page there's no acting involved.
Also levelling system seems to be getting a lot of attention by the mod makers, I'm not sure quite what Bethesda was thinking when they made such a level system. It takes the fun out of exploring, and fear, and excitement out of the game when you know you won't run into a enemy you can't beat.
Also the instant travel from anywhere takes a lot of fun out of the game, I try not to use it at all myself because you miss so much in between. I don't mind the idea of a quicker travel but this way too easy to be able to a fast travel from anywhere.
Also the game world itself is extremely lacking it is not really a living world, a few shopkeepers waking up and going to bed, or them going to work do not exactly make a living world. There is no industry no one is making anything except maybe the wine maker. But there is no pottery maker, no weaver, no woodcutters there's no one doing anything. Not even carrying a box. And they still just stand around mostly, just like they did in Morrowind. and there's things here missing, There are no birds flying, even though you hear them everywhere. There are butterflies at night, and mushrooms growing in freezing snow. I wouldn't want to be the weatherman and trying to predict whether it's going to rain outside the city or inside the city. Really stupid things are all throughout this game.
Also there are no kids no young people, there's no theater, there's no music, a band would of been cool. Something anything except for going to the Coliseum and watching the murdering all these people have to do is read those stupid books.
Let's be honest I don't think this game turned out to anyone's expectations, in fact you get a feeling of real disappointment, especially from the PC gamers. This should clue you in about the reviews to, it sure is interesting than half of them don't mention any of these things, it seems like they were bought and paid for. The guy that reviewed the game at PC gamers magazine claimed he played the game 60 hours, but he doesn't say anything but mention how good the graphics are in his review. How did you figure he played this game 60 hours and "didn't notice anything wrong". he didn't even notice the mage quests were broken in more than one place? That's not called a review its called a sales pitch.
And the last thing I would like to mention is Bethesda's greed. To charge for their plugins is ridiculous, but even if you were to buy them you'll find out right away that they were made for the X box fans and will not work on 64 bit computers until they get them fixed. But I purchased this game for $60 I did not know I would not be able to use part of it unless I paid them $2 for a key to the door to the Orrery. Greed is evil.
There are some great community mods and those guys work a lot of hours making them and don't receive anything, in fact Bethesda will not recognize any user made mods. At one website there's over 1200 mods made, in the same length of time Bethesda still can't get a patch out, or fix their plugins.
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:17 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
Sure, I'll be honest. I think people that dislike this game should start the closure and healing process, and go play something else, instead of going all emo about this over and over again. Yeah, I know, things didnt turn out like you wanted them to, sorry 'bout that champ. That's life for ya, better get used to it.
I'm just trying to help you here, honest.
I'm being honest here, now why dont you be honest with yourself. First step, admit you dislike the game, then go play something else already. I'm not being sarcastic here, let it go already, move on with your life. Go fire up GTA San Andreas or something if this game is not for you, there's no reason to sit around moping and penning another Oblivion angst column.
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“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:46 am |
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Phil5000
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 115
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I can agree with a lot of your points, particularly the dumbing down (that pop up journal is just ridiculous) and I quickly got a mod to remove the quest markers. Also the fact that there's so few voice actors (although I think they did a good job). But I also think you seem to have really extremely high expectations of the game and what a "living world" means. Just how far can you expect them to take it, seriously?
A lot of people moan and complain about the game, sure with valid points. But they seem to pay no attention to the good things about it. Personally I love it and play it for hours and hours a day (yes I have some mods that I consider essential). Another good thing about it is that it exists at all. It's a big budget single player RPG, and not another MMORPG. I hope it's very successful and it encourages the development of more games like it (although preferably geared more to grown-ups and not the twelve year old console gamers). |
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:28 pm |
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Alohan
Head Merchant
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 51
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I'll add only one point, the RAI was originnaly very powerful, so powerful that they decided to tone it down, and now the NPCs are more or less passive, but they have a long way to make a real breathing world, and think about it this way how will the RPG progress if a game makes what you expect, very soon? there will be no spce to improve so let's enjoy the good parts of the game and it's numerous.
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Magic RULES |
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:09 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
Morrowind on the xBox was huge for Bethesda - 1 million units sold on the xBox. There was no way it wasnt going to get a huge console release. Sadly times have changed and the scales are flipped. Oblivion on the 360 is WAY bigger for Bethesda than the PC. Its not even close!
If you go back and read the comments by Pete Hines its pretty clear they were expecting great things from the 360 release. They were right.
Here is the sobering sales data for March:
357000 units for xBox360
174400 units for PC
http://xbox360.gamedaily.com/game/features/gameid=3640&id=989&t=feature
The assumption that the PC "made" Morrowind is simply not true.
I think maybe the xBox release of Morrowind was even bigger than 1 million sold now that GOTY has been factored in. According to Pete Hines:
"We were really surprised by the success of Morrowind on the Xbox." Pete Hines recalled when we sat down for my demonstration of the latest Elder Scrolls game, Oblivion. "We sold over four million units of Morrowind on the Xbox and the PC combined," he said, "and the split was about 50/50."
elderscrolls.blogspot.com/2005/06/july-2005-gamespy-interviews-pete.html
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"For Innos!" |
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Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:42 pm |
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Squeek
Village Leader
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 88
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I agree with the OP that Oblivion could have been a lot better. They took the TES series in the right direction, but the game was influenced too much by the console market.
The good news is modders are hard at work, tweaking it. I have high hopes for Oblivion after it's modded. Out of the box, it was fun for a while, but I stopped before I finished the main quest. |
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Wed May 03, 2006 12:59 am |
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bjon045
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 234
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Todd,
Even if it was a 50/50 split the PC version would have been more profitable. With an xbox title more hands get a piece of the pie. First microsoft gets a fixed chunk then the publisher/distributor and whatever is left goes to the development house/whoever else has an interest. |
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Wed May 03, 2006 2:40 am |
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nightspydk
Village Dweller
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1
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I think those are valid points. Every single one.
The one point about NPC AI. Well you do not see that often. You will see a fleeing NPC, but a tactical withdrawal, not likely. That's actually interesting, that nobody is paying any attention to it. Not trying to develop truly intelligent behaviour. Just maybe random behaviour. That's that RAI for you. Funny bordering hillarious at times.
I should go play something else. I don't because there is nothing worthwhile at the moment and I'm not really looking for GTA type games mostly. I am a PC gamer and as such, I find the PC game market lacking, unfulfilling and more and more so every day. It could just be me.
Oblivion was a tremendous letdown. That also quite funny, since I did not expect to much from it, a realist as I am.
The world is one big copy/paste job. The dungeons, caves. NPCs. Quests, whatever. Total lack of individual touch. Empty and dull. It will not go down in history on my part as that masterpiece it is depicted in every review. Strangely so. |
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Wed May 03, 2006 7:10 am |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
quote:
Originally posted by bjon045
Todd,
Even if it was a 50/50 split the PC version would have been more profitable. With an xbox title more hands get a piece of the pie. First microsoft gets a fixed chunk then the publisher/distributor and whatever is left goes to the development house/whoever else has an interest.
It may be more profitable per unit but the PC version is being totally overwhelmed in unit sales. Nearly 75% xBox360! On top of that - look at that patch they just released. Talk about playing it safe for the console release! Oh well.
I'm playing the PC version by the way - and frankly I think Consoles=Plague. Unfortunately, Bethesda is playing the market to their advantage. You can hardly blame them.
I know people don't want to believe that PC Gaming is about to die but it does seem that death is imminent. All AAA titles are dual release now. I think the next xBox platform will pretty much wrap things up. I just hope they have some decent WASD+Mouse control device concept. I swear that's the only thing holding me back!
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"For Innos!" |
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Wed May 03, 2006 12:57 pm |
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XmirroR
Village Leader
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 89
Location: South CA USA |
quote:
Originally posted by xSamhainx
Sure, I'll be honest. I think people that dislike this game should start the closure and healing process, and go play something else, instead of going all emo about this over and over again. Yeah, I know, things didnt turn out like you wanted them to, sorry 'bout that champ. That's life for ya, better get used to it.
I'm just trying to help you here, honest.
I'm being honest here, now why dont you be honest with yourself. First step, admit you dislike the game, then go play something else already. I'm not being sarcastic here, let it go already, move on with your life. Go fire up GTA San Andreas or something if this game is not for you, there's no reason to sit around moping and penning another Oblivion angst column.
I agree, I wont begin to explain to a company making more money than anyother ( per game ) how to make their games better. But you can't stand there and say something wasn't missed. I should start a topic "How I learned to Love Oblivion"...
But no joke, I had to learn it.
TES 1 ( ARENA ) was a ground breaking achievement, if you discard all the ultimas made before it... ( ok I am an Ultima fan, but face facts ) the concept of seriously open-end plots was not new ground. In first person it certainly was... But who am I to judge. The game TES 1 ( ARENA ) was what it was, and if you spend the time to break it down, it was one of the best RPGs ever. It's fault are luminious beside the other TES RPGs. It had a single complex mainquest. But it advertised open world adventure. Well hell yes you could get off the main quest, And go your own way, but you were immediatly slapped in the face with, 'we didn't polish the concept' code. Ok, forgivable, TES 1 had a main quest to rival any RPG of it's day and if you played along the only real reeason to get off the main quest was to butter your skills for that next encounter. Gameplay that remained of the main quest was redunent and mind numbingly dull. It was strictly where you went when you wern't ready for the next chalange. It's failure, if any, most of all was letting you delve into a deep dungeuon without mentioning your were ill-prepared.
TES 2 ( DAGGERFALL ) was a whirlwind upgrade. Out of the box the game was broken, and the mainquest was so elusive that without help, you had no chance of completeing it on your own. But the ability to go off quest and just dungeoun-dive was nearly perfected. I still have a windows95 laptop, I play Dagerfall on. I can at any point fireup my laptop and play a dungeon crawl and it isn't to be taken lightly.
TES 3 ( MORROWIND )... well what is there to say? it was a billion steps ahead of Daggerfall visually, but a thousand steps behind logically. Noone can complain tho, they provide every essential tool to make it a better game, and could sit back and watch what a supportive community could accomplish.
TES 4 ( OBLIVION )... if you sjip the fact that the game required an Xbox console release it still aint all that bad... But for eF's sake some one at Bethesda should have been aware of the history and addressed it. I feel like I am playing ARENA all over again. The mainquest is exciting and brilliant, but the off main quests fell rushed and bumper sticker-ish. Forgiveable in TES 1 and NOT in TES 4. And if the need was so bad to make the off mainquests quick easy simple and near effortless, then the bastages that coded the original ARNEA and DAGGERFALL should have been rehired.
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Thu May 04, 2006 9:43 am |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by XmirroR
The mainquest is exciting and brilliant, but the off main quests feel rushed and bumper sticker-ish. Forgiveable in TES 1 and NOT in TES 4.
Hm, I completely disagree with that actually  .
In fact, it's quite the opposite in my opinion. The main quest in Oblivion does have its cool moments but overall it seems to be way too short and shallow in comparison to some of the other quest lines.
True, there are definitely different levels of quality as fas as the side quests are concerned. I personally found the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild quest lines most enjoyable though while the Mages Guild quest line was also good/OK-ish. Well, and let's not forget the rather neat and creative side quests like the one with the painting or the Dreamworld etc.
On the negative side I'd have to mention the Fighters Guild quest line which was really extremely boring in my opinion as well as the Arena which was cool in the beginning but got sooo repetitive towards the mid/end. They could've easily done with half of the fights and it would have still felt 'epic' enough  .
OK, and there's the occasional other crap quest here and there, of course, but overall I was very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the side quests to be honest.
On the other hand, if anything feels "rushed" as you put it, then I'd really have to vote for the main quest in Oblivion. It kind of feels like they slapped it in last minute or -attention, conspiracy theory ahead  - as if they turned a quest line that was originally intended for an additional guild (The Blades) into the main quest because they ran out of time. I don't really believe that but it sure feels like it sometimes. |
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Thu May 04, 2006 11:17 am |
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XmirroR
Village Leader
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 89
Location: South CA USA |
I suppose you are right.
I shouldn't have said exciting and brilliant and not have qualified it better...
What I mean to say is that the elements along the mainquest ( excluding plotline dialogue and narative , phffft! ) are the better dungeouns, and battles, and challenges. But the agony is that you can in fact play thru the mainquest on level one begining to end. In TES 1 ARENA if you had tried that you would have had your buttocks served to you on a platter. Therefore you had to every once in a while break from the mainquest just to get ready the next step of the mainquest ( unfortunately for ARENA, often you were a mile or two into a dungeoun before you realized you were unready. ) TES 4 you could powergame the MainQuest and never need to play a single sidequest, and that to me is what makes them feel "stuck-on".
I have metioned this in other posts, and it is true I still play Daggerfall regularly. I fire up my archaic Win95 laptop, and find a random dungeoun and battle my way in and out. Not looking for plot, just a solid dungeoun crawl or two when I have some time to kill. You clearly can't do that with Morrowind, and without a huge change of pace from Bethesda, it will never happen for Oblivion... but dang it sure is pretty, and amazing how few keys it takes to play ( DoH )
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Thu May 04, 2006 6:35 pm |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
I was just noting that there are many almost anonymous, repetitive "Oblivion angst" columns thrown up in forums just begging for people to agree with them, over and over, and they all essentially read the same. It's just getting to be old and trite at this point. Note that the poster only posted once. I know, it's a forum of discussion, and people posted afterward so they obviously wish to keep the convo going.
"Enough already, we know you hate the f*^&%G game, now go load up Daggerfall already and quit yer griping"
That's what I'd like to say to such copy-paste angst columns posted in forums such as this, but I'm too nice a guy so I'd rather put it nicely as I did in my initial post. There's plenty of posts here already dealing with people's dismay over Oblivion not being what they wanted, I just wish theyd start being utilized. Hey, Im just being honest!
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Thu May 04, 2006 7:22 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
I'm no EMO but I needed an Oblivion break so I'm playing Doom 3. My mind is almost soup now as my IQ has dropped to near single digits. Hey its an RPG there are PDA's and I have to reload!
I've gotta get back to Oblivion and do the side quests - I for one think they are more fun than the main quest.
I realized this morning I can't remember where I left my super fast and terribly pricy black horse. Uh oh....
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"For Innos!" |
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Thu May 04, 2006 7:45 pm |
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Squeek
Village Leader
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 88
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I loved Arena and was ready to hate Daggerfall for that reason. I changed my mind in all of about 60 seconds, lol. Daggerfall was awesome.
My own expectations for Oblivion were met and exceeded slightly. Here's my thinking. Bethseda tried to balance the gameplay (a big problem with Daggerfall and Morrowind), introduce skill-based combat, and also cater to the console market. That's well and good, but it's an awfully tall order.
One of the cool things about Oblivion, though, is that it's a work in progress because of the construction set. Players and modders can do what Bethseda could not: They can play-test with thousands of participants and experiment with solutions provided by hundreds of programmers. It's happening right now.
There are already over 1,200 Oblivion mods available for download, and the first official patch isn't even released yet. It's incredible.
Still, I don't expect them to get it right anytime soon. They should be shooting for the kind of balance that was achieved in the original Gothic. But the world of Oblivion is larger; the TES system is more complex, and the game is less structured.
If they can pull it off, and I think they can, Oblivion will rock! Check out a busy modder forum if you haven't already. The amount of participation and effort is almost unbelievable. |
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Thu May 04, 2006 10:19 pm |
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