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Guest
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quote:
I dislike game slike Gothic, which force me into a linear path and storyline
Linear path that is not true there you are not forced to go to the town straight by road, the cave that is left from tower that leads to some area whit Lares is not to hard for 1st level char. You can get to the town by going to the moutain pass and jump to water/swim. You describe it like there are 4 path you go througth one and then have level than anables you to go second that is simply not true.
Storyline is lineral comepre to for exemple morrowind? Most of the quest have multipule ways to solve and you can join palladyns mages or mercenaries that have diferent quest (some) difrerrnt straights (weapons, spells) so it is much more then 100% linear mw quest. |
Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:35 pm |
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GothicGothicness
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 110
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If you're fast it takes 10 minutes to complete morrowind if you go for the main quest. It's pathetic. You can't even say it has a main quest. |
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Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:50 pm |
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Hindukönig
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Halle (Saale) / Nuremberg [Germany] |
quote:
Originally posted by GothicGothicness
If you're fast it takes 10 minutes to complete morrowind if you go for the main quest. It's pathetic. You can't even say it has a main quest.
It has a mainquest, and despite being a Gothic-fan, I liked Morrowind and its plot. Playing Morrowind in ten minutes means to leave out every hint and every quest which leads to the final task. You have to play it through once to know what you have to do to defeat the endboss.
In fact, I think it's a plus for Morrowind that it's possible to get everywhere you want from the beginning. |
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Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:29 pm |
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THX1138
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 25
Location: the belly of the whale or Palatine, IL USA |
I'll try to stay on topic. I think these games are as "open" as you play them to be. I spent over 50 hours running around in Gothic, and not even playing the actual game. Just seeing how far I could run before being slaughtered, or hanging out in new camp, or getting to the top of the Keep ruins, just to jump off. This does not translate into freeform gaming, just that you have these things to interact with that is not part of the story.
Gothic Games are SO fun to interact with.
TES Games are SO fun to build chars with.
I liked that in Gothic, particularly II, that the more you searched, the more you found, and the more attatched to the world you get. It starts to feel organic.
I enjoyed the fact that there were difficult areas I simply couldn't go. The Snapper areas in Gothic, and the Lighthouse in GII. It made putting up with fighting scavengers, bloodflies, molerats, lowly NPC's, and THEN getting to those areas much more rewarding.[edit] oh yeah, and those goofy SwampWeed missions, too funny!
And I loved finding a place on a cliff overlooking an Orc camp and making pincushions out of them at like 5th level. 
I liked Morrowind, but I had no such fun in Morrowind. I remember playing around in Seyda Neen and vicinity, and being awed by the area, but moving on to Pelagiad, and Balmora, and just losing my interest.
I have since loaded up Morrowind again, and again, can't really get very into it.
I am really enjoying Oblivion, it feels more like a Gothic game this time.
I am not a fan of the mini games, but they have not ruined my immersion or anything.
I applaud the char selection this time around.
It told me I was a Pilgrim. Never would I have made that choice on my own.
I tried the sewers again to see if it would give me a Thief class, and it gave me the Agent class. That it analyses my playstyle, and I can't predict it is VERY interesting to me.
Anyway, I made a custom stealth class called Deverto, which means "to turn away" I am still refining it, but I want to be able to snipe, hide, poison, and charm things. BTW I made her Wood Elven, man did I spend ALOT of time creating her face. That was tremendously fun.
I certainly see myself playing this game through multiple times as uncharacteristic classes. And for the first time in any game for me, that truly seems like it would be very fun.
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:20 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Rendelius
If your goal is to give the player the ultimate freedom and your ressources to program a perfect answer to every action the player is probably taking are limited - then you will have to make compromises. No way around it. To create the perfect simulation of a fantasy world is impossible. I am astonished and pleased by how far Bethesda has ventured forward on the way to this goal, but of course there are things that haven't be solved perfectly.
I don't doubt the truth of that at all. On the other hand, I believe there are better ways to resolve some problems and I'd be surprised if they were that much more difficult to implement. I think Bethsoft has done an excellent job in some areas, which makes others all the more perplexing.
As Greg Kasavin said in his review, the more believable a game world is, the believable you want it to be. Why shouldn't kludges like omniscient shopkeepers be criticised when better answers really aren't that hard? Do you think a better solution is hard? I don't.
quote:
Originally posted by ChaoticCoyote
...if you want to get better at combat, go fight something -- otherwise, pick quests that don't require combat!
Not so simple, I'm sorry. I'm quite happy not being that good at combat - I'd happily come back later when I am better, as I would in Gothic and other games but the problem is the automatic levelling ensures there is no later. Once an imbalance occurs, it's very difficult to reverse.
Thanks for all the comments.  Again, I am enjoying it despite some misgivings.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:40 am |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
| I'm always embarresed to tell non-gamers I'm a gamer |
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I'm always embarresed to tell non-gamers I'm a gamer. Mostly because of the perception we gamers put out, true or not, as evidened by the endless whiny and nasty tones in posts you read in forums like what is going on in the offical Oblivion forums on Bethesda's website.
I really don't know what the problem is. I never expected Oblivion to alter the course of my real life universe. This is just like the freakish fans of the Star Wars movies... they live and die based on the what/who/how/when/where George Lucas decided to do with his movies. I'd bet some of those peopel are in therepy over Star Wars Episode 1.
Oblivion is a good game and unlike the whiny overly critical rants going on in various forums, the game will be remembered a long time from now.
My personal all time favorite CRPG is Ultima 7. The gothic series, arx fatalis, and to a lesser degree, Divine Divinity, are all reminscent of that age-old game. I do enjoy CRPGs where you in-game power becomes self-evident as you progress through the game. I'm just finishing up Gothic 2 Night of the Raven and am deeply satisfied with it.
I don't prefer the skill-level system nor do I really care much for the leveled monsters and leveled loot system employed by the TES series. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying the game for what it has to offer... and Oblivion is worth every dollar I spent on it. I will play this game for a long time and feel, after 10 or so hours playing it, that its an improvement over Morrowind.
If we took today's gamers back in time 30 years ago, we'd see spoiled brats at Toys R Us bickering over the fact that Clue plays nothing like Monopoly and getting all irate and outraged about it.
I'd like to live to see the day where the gaming community is capable of recognizing a great work and achievement even if it employs design choices that they don't particularly favor and show a little respect with their tounges.
What I'm seeing on Bethesda's forums is pathetic.
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:30 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
I share the sentiment of MadGamer's last post, good one.
I'm still trying to figure out what all the spaz attacks about this "leveling" nonsense is about. As was mentioned earlier in this topic, I'm seriously starting to wonder if half the people ripping this game up and down on that very basis have actually played the game at all.
Granted, at first the game was a total cakewalk when all I faced was rats, wolves, and other entry-level nasties @ roughly lev#1-3. I tell ya, lev#5 and up you start hitting vampires and such that will rip you a new one if youre not careful. The "leader" of a little vampire homestead I raided not too long ago, the Vampire Matriarch, had me down to like an 1/4 of my life, the battle with her was quite fierce. The spellcasters did major damage too. By the time I got outta there I was diseased, injured, and my equipment had taken a beating.
Also, Ive gotten several good items from places like that. I've scored a "Bow of Jolt", I got some magical mace somewhere that kicks ass, a sword, and quite a few rings and garments that have nice bonuses to them. Now I realize that +5 shock or cold damage or something is not a godlike item, but hey it's better than what I was using, or anything Ive seen at the vendors. It's loot, and good loot that isnt going to completely unbalance me with a godlike item.
Maybe it's the fact that I dont have some sort of super-toon going on, I dont employ complex strategies beyond putting points in my primary attributes. I play the game how I want to play it, and if this skill or that levels up, it's because I felt like doing alchemy, or chose to fight in this or that fashion. People take the whole thing a bit too seriously, just play the game and have fun already. If you dont have fun, go hock the game @ GameTraders and play something else.
As far as the absolutely apoplectic response to this leveling scheme, I dont think it's such a bad idea, when you consider the main criticisms of Morrowind. Keeping things competitive isnt necessarily just for taking it easy on newcomers, but keeping it playable for the rest as they advance and become quite powerful.
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“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:21 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Lots of really good and interesting points. Saw a ridiculous example of the game waiting for you last night. I was following a character as part of a quest. I was in sneak mode when he met another NPC. I stayed back to avoid being seen, but nothing happened, the characters just stood there. Eventually in frustration, I saved and went out to confront them. As I drew near enough for them to see me clearly, they began their scripted conversation which I was supposed to overhear.
So far, I'm enjoying the game much more than Morrowind as well. I'm still level 1 after 13 hours, but I've just received notification that I need to rest and level up. I might eventually, but right now I'm fishing and still have 4 more to get so I think I'll risk going without sleep for a few more hours!! 
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:43 am |
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doctor_kaz
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Location: West Virginia, USA |
A lot of the problems that I see with this game stem from the game being too big. I'd rather have a smaller, more focused and richer world like in the Gothic series. It seems like every dungeon is the same, and the NPC's still are pretty bland.
The design decision that I hate more than any other though is the fact that arrows take up weight. And dwarven arrows take up twice the weight. Since most enemies take about twenty or thirty arrows to kill anything that's challenging, you have to carry hundreds of arrows with you to go on any kind of prolonged expedition, and this keeps you from being able to carry anything else. The inventory in this game is a real pain in the ass this time. It creates all sorts of tedious problems. |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:57 pm |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
quote:
Originally posted by corwin
Saw a ridiculous example of the game waiting for you last night. I was following a character as part of a quest. I was in sneak mode when he met another NPC. I stayed back to avoid being seen, but nothing happened, the characters just stood there. Eventually in frustration, I saved and went out to confront them. As I drew near enough for them to see me clearly, they began their scripted conversation which I was supposed to overhear.
I did this quest last night... it's the one regarding the one merchant that won't cooperate with the other merchants right?
I did the same thing. I worked so hard to sneak behind him and keep out of sight. Got to the meeting location and nothing happened until I approached in a way that I was in plain site. Was kinda strange. Still, I'm enjoying the game.
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:55 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicGothicness
Am I the only one who is terrible dissapointed by this game?
Finally! Someone who does not think that this game is the greatest game of all the time.
I wholy agree with you, except that I didn't even have the expectations.
I mean, I didn't like Morrowind for exactly these reasons (even though I played many hours of it), and antipathy increased even more when I played BG2 and PS:T and saw that Morrowind failed to provide any meaningful gameplay in every way.
I mean, sure, you can wander and explore and so on...
But actually, what's the point? Wandering pointlessly through hundreds of dungeons which look 100% the same, travelling across huge distances just to see the exact same thing and meet the exact same monsters.
Another thing is the conversations: There's absolutely no intellectual value in them. Not a bit.
But the most annoying things were the quests: Damn it, I don't want to be some DHL employee and work on delivery. I need some _real_ quests, like those in BG2 or PS:T.
I see that Oblivion failed to correct any of these issues.
Come on, Bethesda, it's the quality that counts, not quantity! |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:05 pm |
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bjon0452
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
But the most annoying things were the quests: Damn it, I don't want to be some DHL employee and work on delivery. I need some _real_ quests, like those in BG2 or PS:T.
I see that Oblivion failed to correct any of these issues.
Come on, Bethesda, it's the quality that counts, not quantity!
It is quite apparent you haven't played much of the game if you think this. There are many quests in Oblivion that are far more detailed and interesting than any quest in BG2. Anyone else like that quest where you help an orc become a knight? Just where/what is the "white cottage" key the count gives you at the end of the second stage?!?! |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:57 pm |
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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by bjon0452
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
But the most annoying things were the quests: Damn it, I don't want to be some DHL employee and work on delivery. I need some _real_ quests, like those in BG2 or PS:T.
I see that Oblivion failed to correct any of these issues.
Come on, Bethesda, it's the quality that counts, not quantity!
It is quite apparent you haven't played much of the game if you think this. There are many quests in Oblivion that are far more detailed and interesting than any quest in BG2. Anyone else like that quest where you help an orc become a knight? Just where/what is the "white cottage" key the count gives you at the end of the second stage?!?!
Very true. I have run into a few quests so far that require you to make some interesting choices about how you solve them.
I am so very impressed with this game. Bethesda has improved on Morrowind to a great degree. The visuals are very good, the combat is exciting and visceral, the physics are fun, the sense of adventure and having that huge world of choices is always there.
I will admit to not liking the level or loot scaling. BUT, I am going to continue playing the game to see if in the long run it really bothers me as much as I think it might.
This is coming from a hardcore Gothic fan who loved to pick on (but still iked) Morrowind: Oblivion is the real deal!
If they could just fix the "all knowing" guards and tweak the level scaling somewhat they will have a legendary game on their hands.
Let's hope Gothic III can offer an equivalent experience. Then 2006 will forever be remembered as the grand year of CRPGs.
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All shall hear the words of Karras...the words of Karras |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:14 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
Are you all so sure about the level list issue? Sure it fleshes out most (95%) of your opponents - but I ran across a fighter in a dungeon last night who had an amazing set of armor and a soul trap sword. She was clearly there to offer a "challenge" since you had to attack her - but she was so far above my abilities it was staggering. I died about 9 times barely giving her a scratch (even with an initial 4x sneak melee attack!) before I gave up and left with my tail between my legs.
And... If you munchkined Morrowind who's fault is that? If you created a money pump with a talking crab or "mark recall" golden saint loot then sure you could imbalance the game. But really, the people who wanted to enjoy the world didnt do those things.
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"For Innos!" |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:35 pm |
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Sir Markus
Counselor of the King
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA |
Just an aside to comment on the packaging for Oblivion:
Memo to game designers. You work hard to make a great game, can you at least treat your creation with respect and use a plastic CD case for shipping your creation, instead of a flimsy paper envelope?
MY GOD, I'm tired of paying 50 bucks for a game and having it come out of the box in a paper sleeve.
It's bad enough we have to deal with tiny manuals, but this whole thing with the paper sleeves is out of hand. Pony up the 2 1/2 cents or whatever your cost increase is, and put the thing in a plastic cd case.
Just had to rant. |
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Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:43 am |
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