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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
| Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor (Review) |
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I've been playing this game off and on since June 04. I'm about to finish it. I know the game is almost universally despised but I don't think it got a fair shake quite frankly. So I figured I'd give you all my honest opinion having played a good 120+ hours of the game (1.4 retail patch, no "speed" patch).
The game is broken up into 4 major sections. Using my 120 hour number, it sort of splits up like this:
- 40 hours in the Dwarven Ruins
- 15 hours on the surface
- 50 hours in the Drow/Cultist Catacombs
- 15 hours to endgame
Based on that, if reviewers only played 20 hours or so of the game and then wrote the review I can sort of see how this game got blasted. The plot and the action pick up AFTER the Dwarven ruins - in a big way. In fact the main plot is only loosly revealed while you are in the Dwarven Ruins.
Once on the surface, you get some meaty quests and see the main story arc - and there is lots of NPC interaction. I liked the Dwarven ruins - but I felt that the shear size of those ruins made the game feel like it lacked direction and it became tedious. This is not the case once you complete that part of the game. After a while the Dwarven ruins "gel" as you complete the quests and activate everything, but the ambiguity of purpose and the hordes of sloooow undead combat simply make it tedious. Keep in mind that there is a "speed" patch - but I never tried it.
In my opinion there is a big difference between fighting 100's of Orogs, Lizard Men and undead hordes vs. fighting the Cultists and the Drow in the Catacombs. The Drow and the Cultists simply offer alot more to the combat system - More fun and alot more challenge. With the added challenge, there is alot more thought behind your use of the magic system. Its not just fireball everything. You'll start to need to magically buff your fighters and give careful consideration to formation and flanking opportunities - stuff that was taken for granted in the Dwarven Ruins. The Catacombs are simply better. While there is still lots of undead around its nowhere near as tedious - and the undead in the catacombs are alot more powerful.
On the bugs front - they were few and far inbetween. The 1.4 patch is very stable. Very late in the game there is a serious stability bug that is easily solved by simply running the executable in Win98 compatibility mode. This is a must. There is no difference visually or in gameplay - its merely for stability. You'll find the "compatibility mode" options on the executables property tab in XP.
The last 70 hours of the game have been quite alot of fun for me - especially considering I paid $7 for the game on Amazon.com. I later picked up the Strategy Guide since some of the quests can get pretty difficult but I've only used it a few times. The graphics also improve later in the game - the Catacombs have a bit more going on and the surface art is simply stunning. I've played Temple of Elemental Evil - my favorite game in fact - and while I do miss the feats and skills selection it frankly has not affected gameplay. The game's default selections are adequate and you see the affect of the feats during combat.
I have to give a nod to the Stormfront Development team. This game is a huge sweeping epic in scale. While the story appears thin in the beginning it pics up nicely later on. The game is simply enormous and the obvious effort put into amazes me. Overall, I think the game is horribly mistreated. I think at some point the game became a target for jokes from people who never even tried it. I guess that makes it a legend! Behind all the drama though - is a very good CRPG if you have the patience.
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"For Innos!" |
Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:07 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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In no particular order this is what I despised about Pools 2:
1) Surprise round implementation. Far too often I'd be the one who kicked the door down and somehow get ambushed by the ogres I knew were there on the other side.
2) Inability to select your own feats and skills. Character customization is the most important thing about 3rd edition. This game was a poor 'first glance' of the ruleset.
3) Spellcasters casting their entire spell-list spontaneously. C'mon... seriously, CRPGs have been able to handle a memorization system for decades. What was the problem?
4) A godly amount of loot to overcompensate for a very low (for a computer game) point buy system.
5) The inability to seperate your party more than a half screen.
6) Slow combat animations, especially monster moves.
Those are my biggest. There are more... pacing in particular, early game monster opponent selection (far too many shadows for a low level party, for instance), in game bugs (recharging wands by dropping them on the ground and picking them up again), the fact the pre-generated characters were stronger than any custom character you could make... but those six were the biggest detriments to my enjoyment of the game. I couldn't stomach it long enough to finish it ... that's why I didn't write a review for RPGDot for it.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:50 am |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
I understand what you are saying and I've heard it all before. I do think its a shame I keep hearing these criticisms (most of which are valid) because despite these shortcomings there is a great game for those who stick it out. But besides that - I have a larger point I'd like to make:
Pool of Radiance and Temple of Elemental Evil are in the same boat. I'm a HUGE fan of Temple of Elemental Evil. Nobody is more disappointed than I am that the game is such a collosal failure with critics and fans alike. We can sit around and blame Troika and Atari for releasing a buggy product and just complain as we always have. I'd argue though - that we should also point the fingers back at the fans. Crucifying Troika/Atari for ToEE and Stormfront/Ubisoft for POR2 literally guarantees we won't see anyone taking the financial risk for such a complex game. Obviously, casually discrediting these games critically and flaming all over the internet is the death of sales. ToEE held so much promise for D&D module development and I think we would ALL agree its by leaps and bounds the best implementation of D&D combat ever devised. Now it is dead and why? Because gamers couldnt be bothered to help support the game through the patching process. All you hear is "vote with your wallet" and "when is Atari/Ubisoft going to get the message?". They already have gotten the message and its not the one fans were trying to convey. The message is that the Console is easier to develop on.
So if killing POR2 and ToEE is the goal then gamers have certainly succeeded. In the process though they have basically killed ALL turn based D&D games. Personally, I'd rather play ToEE and POR2 than any Bioware product. I've completed Baldur's Gate and I play Neverwinter Nights off and on. Good games - but they have failed to capture the essence of what D&D is all about. ToEE and to (admittedly) a lesser extent POR2 have accomplished that.
[/b]
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"For Innos!" |
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Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:34 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I liked Temple. It scored highly despite the bugs and hack job done to it. It had enough promise floating underneath the bugs to keep me moving forward.
I didn't see that promise in Pools. From the insant it began (character generation) I was bombarded with powerful flaws. Once I entered the game and got attacked by my first mob of skeletons I began to wonder about the combat pacing. Once I was attacked by a shadow within a few rooms of starting the ruins I began to wonder about the opponent selection. Once I was ambushed by my first band of orcs I could clearly see I began wondering about the decision to include such a poor implementation of the surprise round. Once I leveled up and realized that I was not in control of my characters development beyond choosing a class to level I realized it wasn't 3rd edition.
All of these happened in my first few hours of play.
I agree that the fickle public is often too quick to abandon a game... but sometimes they're on to something.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:19 am |
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peterb
Village Dweller
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 21
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quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
I'd argue though - that we should also point the fingers back at the fans. Crucifying Troika/Atari for ToEE and Stormfront/Ubisoft for POR2 literally guarantees we won't see anyone taking the financial risk for such a complex game. Obviously, casually discrediting these games critically and flaming all over the internet is the death of sales.
This is absolutely ridiculous. Game companies are not charities. If they want good reviews of their products, then they need to release good products. If they release crap products, than they should expect crap reviews. The idea that a consumer has a responsibility to not publically criticize a product that -- let's say for the sake of argument -- destroys their computer is ridiculous on its face.
-peterb
http://www.tgr.com |
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Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:53 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
I think you are missing my point. There is a difference between an objective review that is highly critical and ones that simply rip a game without any thought to its merits.
And fans totally lack patience. Do I even need to defend that statement? Bottom line is, there will be no further isometric turn based D&D games - probably ever. All the POR2 and ToEE flaming has sealed the deal. No publisher is going to take on the risk of such a complex game for such an overcritical audience when they can make Pac Man Rally for the silent masses.
Face it its true. Fire up the console baby!
_________________
"For Innos!" |
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Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:04 pm |
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JDR13
Magister of the Light
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 376
Location: Michigan, United States |
I don't know why you're even mentioning POR2 and TOEE in the same sentence. TOEE was actually a pretty decent game which would have been better if they had included an option for real time combat. I've also seen some reviews on TOEE that were on the positive side. You're acting like POR2 and TOEE are on the same level when they're not.
On a side note, you're only kidding yourself to think either of those games could be better than a Bioware product. I'm not a Bioware fanboy but those games aren't even close to being in the same league as a Baldurs Gate or a Planescape Torment. In fact, it's too bad Bioware didn't make POR2, because if they had it most likely would have been a much better game. |
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Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:32 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
The fact that you wanted a realtime option for ToEE speaks volumes.
The Bioware games are great and all -but its Kindergarden combat.
_________________
"For Innos!" |
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Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:50 pm |
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JDR13
Magister of the Light
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 376
Location: Michigan, United States |
quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
The fact that you wanted a realtime option for ToEE speaks volumes.
The Bioware games are great and all -but its Kindergarden combat.
That's an interesting comment considering that real-time combat for a party of characters is quite a bit more difficult to manage than turn-based. |
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Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:40 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
You know its been a long time since I've played D&D - but when did everyone start rolling the dice at the same time?
Again don't get me wrong - I really liked Baldur's Gate and I just finished that a few months back using the BG->BG2 conversion. Very good game - but the combat engine is not nearly as detailed as ToEE. You can sort of force the Infinity Engine into a turn based mode but its just not designed for it and its clumsy.
But most people prefer real time - hence your statement. I realize that, but just because something is more popular doesnt make it better.
[/i]
_________________
"For Innos!" |
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Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:05 pm |
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Arma
Mysterious Lady
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1230
Location: in the middle of hell |
quote:
Originally posted by JDR13
I don't know why you're even mentioning POR2 and TOEE in the same sentence. TOEE was actually a pretty decent game which would have been better if they had included an option for real time combat. I've also seen some reviews on TOEE that were on the positive side. You're acting like POR2 and TOEE are on the same level when they're not.
I don't know about PoR2. But ToEE is a great game. Btw, what was probably the best thing in it was the turn-based combat. It made about 75 % of what made the game great. And you want to switch it with real time combat? You are out of your mind.
quote:
Originally posted by JDR13
On a side note, you're only kidding yourself to think either of those games could be better than a Bioware product. I'm not a Bioware fanboy but those games aren't even close to being in the same league as a Baldurs Gate or a Planescape Torment. In fact, it's too bad Bioware didn't make POR2, because if they had it most likely would have been a much better game.
Yup. ToEE is in no way close to BG/2 or PS - T. BG/2 had a great story but it has awful combat, no character development (one in which I have a hand in, except for choosing a class and race at the beginning) and limited role-playing options. PS-T suffered from mostly the same problems. |
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Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:21 pm |
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