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Utumno
Village Dweller
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 7
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With the latest patch, is it better to use 2 sabers, a double saber, or a single saber? |
Tue May 18, 2004 12:29 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Don't know about patch changes since I've only played 1.03 but since Knights uses a modified D&D 3rd edition rule set (D20 Star Wars) I know that:
1 - A single saber provides the best attack and armor class bonus (with the dueling feat taken to master) and does respectable damage with improved flurry (master if you've got feats to burn).
2 - Two sabers inflict more damage than one saber by virtue of allowing more chances to attack. Additionally they allow four upgrade crystals between the two and look damned cool. The style is less accurate than single saber, and has a worse defense rating... so against high defense, high attack enemies you are at a disadvantage.
3 - Double sabers have all the benefits and drawbacks of two saber fighting... but inflict more damage per hit (sometimes much more damage per hit). It is probably the better two weapon fighting choice as it does more damage consistantly which may offset the lower accuracy and defense. The difference is that a double saber can handle two crystals in upgrades whereas the two sabers can handle four, as I mentioned.
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Tue May 18, 2004 2:05 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
The difference is that a double saber can handle two crystals in upgrades whereas the two sabers can handle four, as I mentioned.
For a bit, I was confused by this, but you mean 4 different crystals, right? Since the two crystals in the double saber apply to both sides, the only benefit of two sabers would be if you used different types of crystals in either saber, with the purpose of maximizing your "effects." For example, use power enhancement crystals in one and stun crystals in the other, right?
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Tue May 18, 2004 2:30 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Yes. I meant four different crystals. The double saber effectively has four crystals on its own, since it does apply to both sides... but it's limited to two types. However, since it applies to both sides I would imagine rarer and more powerful crystals (I just left Dantooine for the first time so I'm not very far into the game) would kick ass on a double saber, as you'd have to find one for each saber if you used two weapons.
All in all the double saber IS the better choice over two saber.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue May 18, 2004 2:55 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
Something just accured to me. I had a thought about this yesterday but dismissed it quickly because I did not have an answer and did not want to spend time figuring it out. But...
Would 2 sabers possibly increase your ability to deflect incoming blaster fire? I got a feeling that double saber was the worst at that, single saber medium and two sabers the best at deflecting blaster fire (best being the most incoming fire deflected). Logically this would make sense to me, so perhaps my brain filtered the information to make it look so, but it did seem that way to me in the game.
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Tue May 18, 2004 3:05 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Well, according to the rules you make an attack roll against incoming blaster fire and if you win it's deflected... and if you win by 10 its reflected. It doesn't say anywhere that you get one attack roll per lightsaber wielded.
So logically the single saber would be best at deflecting blaster fire because it has the highest attack bonus. I see no reason for the other two to perform any differently from each other, as they both have the same attack bonus with master two weapon fighting.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue May 18, 2004 3:12 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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Utumno,
The answer to your question, "is it better to use 2 lightsabers, a double-bladed lightsaber, or a single lightsaber?" depends on who your enemy is.
Against low defense enemies (relative to your level):
Use two lightsabers if you want to use different crystals to yield different effects. Use a double bladed lightsaber if you have one really good crystal that you want to apply to every attack. If you are not sure, use a double blade by default.
Against high defense enemies (again relative to your level), a single lightsaber with master dueling will do more damage than master two weapon fighting. Here's why.
Say you face an enemy that requires you to roll a 17 in order to hit him. Master Dueling will give you a 3 point bonus to your attack roll, meaning you will hit on a 14 or above. This doubles your chance to land an attack.
Master Two Weapon will give a two point penalty to each hand, meaning you can only hit him on a 19 or 20.
Against, low defense enemies, the penalties won't matter enough to overcome the extra swing. Master Dueling is better on high defense enemies because it is 3 times more likely to land an attack. When you consider feats and powers that give you extra attacks even with a single weapon, Dueling pulls further ahead. Dueling also gives you a defense bonus, so you get hit less. |
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Wed May 19, 2004 8:43 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
This is why I finally decided to go with 2 sabers. That way, even if I unexpectedly come across a big bad boss, I can always just switch to a single blade mode and continue like nothing ever happened. My off blade has some nice "support" crystals in it (like stun and blaster deflection bonus).
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Wed May 19, 2004 10:07 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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Moondragon, did you have the proper feats to support your lightsaber choice (Two-Weapon fighting)? |
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Wed May 19, 2004 10:45 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
I think the first level of ambidexterity (or whatever the dual weapon feat is called) was the first feat I selected. As it turns out, back then it proved to be useless and I never persued it further. My To Hit back then was in negatives with dual wielding, so I gave up on it.
Today on the other hand, with two sabers, my off hand is at +16 and my main weapon is at +17. With those numbers I take down Dark Jedi in no time and even Master Dark Jedi do not seem to pose a problem any more. Single weapon... I think my To Hit is at +27 or something like that.  And I'm not even maxed out on lightsaber use yet. That should increase my numbers a bit as well.
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Thu May 20, 2004 3:38 pm |
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Killerofevils II
Village Leader
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 96
Location: South Bend, IN |
Double-bladed lightsabers are the best period. Heres why and how:
Why: Because of the high damage and up to 3 hits can be done regularly, I reached up to a 24 and 22 attack rating on my double bladed lightsaber, and it looks alot cooler.
How: Just master two-weapon fighting, put in a kraft dragon pearl, the crystal that adds 1-6 energy damage and +1 attack I think and you got yourself a good ass lightsaber and don't forget power attack either. Don't forget to get Dexterity pretty high at character creation and wear the +3 dexterity implant that you can buy on the wookie planet (never could pornounce it) and Brejik's glove which makes you harder to hit AND you more of a chance to hit.
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Thu May 20, 2004 3:50 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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@ Moondragon
The feat is called Two-Weapon Fighting. If you only have the first level of it, then you are still taking a 6 point penalty to your "To Hit" number on each hand. Try using a short lightsaber in your off hand. The short saber will give a two point bonus to your main hand. Also, if you regulary use two sabers, then consider mastering Two-Weapon Fighting.
@Killerofevils II
The double-blade is not better in every circumstance. The double-blade (With Master Two-Weapon Fighting) is better at dispatching a large number of enemies who are weaker than you are. It is better because their defense is too low for them to dodge and you get one extra attack. When you face one or more enemies who are as strong as you are, then the single blade (With Master Dueling) is better. The single blade with Dueling is better in this circumstance because you will land a larger percentage of your attacks, a percentage large enough to do more damage over the same number of rounds.
Last edited by Darrius Cole on Fri May 21, 2004 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Thu May 20, 2004 7:45 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I've given up on fighting with lightsabers in my current evil game. A +19 to hit sees me missing against half the things on the first world I visited (Korrinas? The Sith World) pretty much all the time. I didn't manage to hit a Ternatek ONCE (had to let Carth and Canerous take it out). When I faced multiple Ternateks alone later on I had to reload twice before I just said 'screw it' and used Kill on them. Kill works. Doesn't matter that I can't hit a Sith Apprentice with a +19 to hit and that I get hit every attack with a 32 defense.... just click Kill twice and wait 6 seconds.
My light side Jedi is going to have a fun time when he gets there... I went from Soldier to Sentinel for the extra force points per level and better skill points, but after seeing the miserable luck my Sith was having perhaps I'll choose Guardian after all for the better attack bonus per level...
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri May 21, 2004 1:30 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
A +19 to hit sees me missing against half the things on the first world I visited (Korrinas? The Sith World) pretty much all the time...
You went there first? Ouchies. Not a good place to go first. But +19 shouldn't be so bad. I cleaned up the whole map dual wielding sabers so my tohit was around +20.
Speaking of not using sabers, I actually finished that map not using sabers. Before I got there, I ended up on Yavin and bought a sword from there. Holy smokes. Fully upgraded, in Johani's hands it does 10-40 damage and has something like +30 to hit. Oh, and that damage is 1/3 sonic, 1/3 energy, 1/3 slashing. Wow. That's a beast of a blade.
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Fri May 21, 2004 2:18 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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@EverythingXen
This idea of not using lightsabers at all is intriguing. How is your evil character constructed? What are his character levels. I use a Soldier 2 /Consular 18 with extremely high wisdom and Charisma, and high dexterity. But low on Strength, and Constitution and extremely low on Intelligence. I was able to put everything in a stasis field except Malak at the end; stasis field worked on the Leviathan. I was even able to stun Dark Jedi Masters through their Force Immunity. However, against Malak I would have needed Cancelation, which I forgot to take. I will correct that problem on my next game. What are your character specs? |
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Fri May 21, 2004 5:27 pm |
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