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Fionn
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 16
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| Whats the big deal with NWN? |
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I'm a huge game player, spare no expense when trying to find a good computer game. In the last month ive played and beat Morrowind, Warcraft 3, NWN, Max Pain, Jedi Knight 2, Ghost Recon, and im sure one or two more.
I find NWN to be appealing at first, seemed like an interesting story line..But as I got further and further into the game. It got duller and duller. Graphics were not very appealing. Every time you are in a city, there are basic 4 places to go, each with its own small map to investigate and with boring quests. Then when you beat the main goal there you go to another map with 4 places to go. When people preached about this game not being linear back before it came out, all I see is another linear game..but you get to pick which of the 4 places you want to go to first.
Maybe I expected more from the game.. I tryed the multiplayer and it sucked. What a waste of my time. Could not even load into a game half the time. Another problem I had is the ability to only use one henchmen. If you got the cash you should be able to hire as many as you want. Its not like they have anything better to do than sit in the bar and drink some ale. Half the other characters were retardedly getting themselves killed. I think your best bet is the wizard and hireling Orc warrior combo. That was my approach. Cast knock on all the stupid doors that almost all had traps on then let your Orc, familiar and Summoned pet kick everything elses butt. Throw in a few fireballs, thats basically the game. I think Morrowind has better appeal when breaking into rooms cause there was a limited amount of danger when you touch something..like touch a daedra weapon, well you better be ready cause you just summoned it!
Only think in NWN that was amusing was stripping butt naked infront of the lady, then she attacks you while your Orc henchman is peaking at your privates.
Anyways, maybe someone else found this game more appealing but it seemed like a weak game with a decent storyline and graphically it sucked, Dungeon Siege looked so much better. The game play was decent, I liked the spell aliasing at the bottom of the screen but other than that, the game seemed pointless and boring and a long drive to go to another map with 4 locations you can visit with one or 2dungeons in each.
Maybe im just dissapointed in gaming companys of late. Think the best games lately have been FPS's which is sad:( |
Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:31 pm |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
I don't know, I haven't played NWN, but it seems some games that are long hyped from a company who have had past success get almost automatic great reviews. Fanboys buy into it long before the game even comes out, so once they get a mediocre game on their machine, they can't rescind their unconditional love. How dare you say something negative about this sacred game!
I felt the same is true of Morrowind. Though not a bad game, reviewers and fans cannot bear to even mention the game's many flaws. |
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:53 pm |
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The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
Well, I'm definitely not a fanboy, but here's my two gp. I just got NWN today and I have to say - I'm impressed. Maybe it's because I like D&D, maybe it's because I'm not very picky about my RPGs...who knows? Character creation was very good, in fact, almost excellent ...and I was very pleased with the character that I was able to create. Great graphics and sound, the best of any D&D CRPG to my knowledge....and the interface definitely deserves some pops. Like I said, I'm not a fanboy of this game, didn't even want to buy it at first.......but I got bored of Morrowind...so I bought NWN because I loved Icewind Dale. I just hope what you say isn't true; I don't want this game to be dull. At the moment, this game is living up to the hype. [at least for me]
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:11 am |
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Fionn
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 16
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When you talk about character creation. If thats the only thing the game has, that might be it. But even there its still hindered. Yea you got cute little pictures, but then your character can only be fat or muscular. They probably just swelled the character a little more. And as for your liking the game at the beginning..yea same thing happened to me till i got into the game and found the further I got in, it was the same layout everywhere I went. Game was never even hard. Just dissapointed. And the graphics for your characters were not that impressive anyways. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:17 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Not hard? Have you noticed the option for changing the difficulty setting yet? 
I'm currently playing a Ranger and I'm greatly enjoying the game. I just reached chapter two and now I'm playing around with the toolset. I have yet to find it boring. If you want good multiplayer sessions, then you need to start your own group. There are too many cheaters out there. Multiplayer is what you make it. The Nonflamer's Guild on this site has already started a good group and is having a grand time from all accounts. I haven't been able to join them yet because I work at the time they play. I hope to join them this weekend though. 
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:16 am |
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Fionn
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 16
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| yes ive played it hard level |
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Game is quite easy and even killing a level 20 lich at level 12 was quite easy. But then again if you get retarded about hard levels, it ends up being crappy like Diablo 2 with its physical immunity crap.
I expected more from the game. Once you get to the third chapter, its basically the same basic idea..east, north, south, west and those just go to a big square of more of the same stuff. As far as multiplayer, thats basically what most people say..Unless you have no friends playing, Multiplayer for NWN sucks.
Im just dissapointed in the game..so much rave for it but in the end its just as badly done as Balders Gate in most ways. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:46 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Then pray tell, what were you expecting?
It's delivered so far on what I've expected. I expected a normal single player game. I expected great multiplay with friends. I expected a powerful editor. I expected a DM client that worked. I've gotten all four.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:01 am |
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The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
Well, I just got into Ch 1 and I'm still loving this game. The story is interesting and well done at this point. Can't really find any legit complaints about the game right now. The spell effects look awesome and the three quick slot bars are a big help. Most of the dialogue options have decently allowed me to role-play my neutral good wizard. However, I will admit that there aren't enough hair styles, etc. to choose from....[the portraits look great though] Overall, great game.
Does RPGDot have a group that plays online?
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= Not just a member, but a client of The Followers of Righteousness =
"Stand back...there's a hurricane coming through..." |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:31 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
The Nonflamer's Guild, which is a group that started on this site, had a session just today. I was unable to play because I was at work though. There are other forum members who are trying to get something together. PM SuperCowMan24, he'd probably love to have people join him.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:59 am |
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Fionn
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 16
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| actually I expected better from the game |
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Helps to also play the game thru. Like I said before, i liked the game more at first until I got done with it.
1. yea it was a "normal" single player game. Nothing special really about it. Nothing new. Looked just like Balders Gate.
2. Multiplayer was horrid. So much lag, people, horrible interface, and you would have to be friends with a lot of people who make their own maps before it even got somewhat decent.
3. Editors come with most programs now. This one is not the greatest made. Even the guys reviewing it said you had to figure out which they said took a long time if you never did it before.
Like I said..i dont see the big deal. Graphics totally blew in this game, not sure what people think is good graphics but they were pretty ordinary. Think they could have done a lot better with the video tech they have going for them.
Really only things I liked was a decent story line, and the spell interface. Other than that, your silly henchman would do all the work. Like the theif..Aye lemme get that!" AYE there you go."
Anyways, not saying I hate the game..just saying I dont see all the big deal. Was dissapointed after all the omg this game is the best thing that ever happened to RPG..blah blah. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:12 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
| Re: actually I expected better from the game |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fionn
not saying I hate the game..just saying I dont see all the big deal. Was dissapointed after all the omg this game is the best thing that ever happened to RPG..blah blah.
Well, i'm somewhat agree with Fionn (i only played SP so anything i said do not apply to MP). I think the whole thing is we are bombarded by too much hype on NWN, which partly contributed by Bioware & its publisher (i keep an eye on NWN since 1999). I had read on-line interview with Bioware which stated how good would be SP in NWN & assured us that SP will as good as MP part. I think that's just rational thing to say for developer (never heard of any games developer would say the otherwise  ). After finishing SP in NWN, i don't think it as good as Baldur's Gates series, Planescape Torment, Gothic or Morrowind. I quess Bioware goal to create a wonderful SP experience or as good as MP part failed; or probably because i was spoiled by too many other better CRPGs. (hey don't flame me guys, it's just my opinion ...).
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:59 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Nice discussion you got here about NWN, but we have a special forum for that, so I moved this thread to the suitable forum!
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Member of the Sport fan club. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:26 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The biggest deal about NWN is that there's a big deal about NWN.
Don't believe hype. Ever.
I'm churning through NWN nicely... I was playing a fighter/rogue and doing fine... but I kind of need to get the single play done so I can write a review for RPGDot here, so I switched out for a wizard.
Obviously the game is about 100 x easier with you controlling a wizard. UNless you go to hardcore so your area effect spells BBQ your henchmen (as they should), the game is a cakewalk. That's the way it is with pen and paper D&D as well... a well prepared high level wizard can defeat anything mortal. You notice it more at low to mid levels in NWN because even into chapter when you're 8th level you're still fighting 1 hit dice (6 hit point) enemies and wondering 'why am I wasting my time on these fools?' (in 3e pen and paper you would not get a single bit of experience for most of chapter 2).
I like the game. A lot. The graphics are great... I honestly don't see how people say Dungeon Siege's graphics and character animations were better (I loaded them up back to back to compare in a town, for example, setting both to max and zooming in as close as I could. There was practically no difference other than the fact that NWN's characters looked better because there was a wider variety.).
The story is standard fare... but it's well written. Nothing groundbreaking there, of course... but then, the only even remotely unique story Bioware has ever put out was Torment. The rest were variations on a theme.
Multiplayer itself is great as a concept. I log in and play with people from around the world.
As a note, Direct Connect is... as I knew it would be... about 300% better than Gamespy with regards to lag.
The multiplaying code could use some optimization... and the entire game currently needs another patch, as I've had nothing but problems in multiplayer since 1.19 was released.
The creation tool is straightforward in its basics. There's plenty of documentation on it. In the details where you get into scripting it is more complex. You have to know how to script from BG (or use C). I still find it easier to use than Morrowind's... but I'm not comparing the two games as they're nothing alike. I don't compare games to each other if at all possible, actually.
The Dungeon Master client is pretty easy to learn and master. It's also pretty easy to lock up... but its principle is sound.
If I had to take a rough guess at what my final rating is going to be... it's going to be around an 85 to 90. That's a rough guess... depending on how things play out challenge and stability wise (though not challenge as much since I elected to be a wizard. Design a module that challenges high level wizards to the most and you've designed a module that will kill a high level anything else.).
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:00 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
| Re: actually I expected better from the game |
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I think you should research the games you buy Fionn, rather than given into hype and then not even know what the hype is all about.
I remember NWN being hyped for one thing, and one thing alone. Its DM capabilities. It is unheard of in the CRPG genre. Until now, it has been the sole domain of PnP RPing. They attempted something revolutionary and, of course, they hyped it when it looked like it would do what they wanted it to do.
Second thing I remember hearing about NWN was that, in order to make DM mode work properly, they spent majority of the time deveoping a world creation tool like the world has never seen before. It is not something morons and idiots are supposed to use out of the box. This is a professional level development tool. Compare it to 3DStudio. Do you think (for 3DSM) "[even] the guys reviewing it [would say] you had to figure out which they [would say would] took a long time if you never did it before?"
The only thing I ever remember hearing about SP module was that they created a SP campaign as an added feature, both to get people comfortable with the engine and to serve as an example on how to make modules. I don't remember hearing a single hyped expression about the SP module (at least not from BW).
quote:
Originally posted by Fionn
1. yea it was a "normal" single player game. Nothing special really about it. Nothing new. Looked just like Balders Gate.
So, whose fault is it, that you expected something from the game that was never advertised?
quote:
Originally posted by Fionn
2. Multiplayer was horrid. [...] you would have to be friends with a lot of people who make their own maps before it even got somewhat decent.
First, I don't recall ever hearing BW advertising how MP modules will be created magically out of thin air. Secondly, you are complaining that you need to know people to RP. Well, duh! Do you have a tendency to sit at home and PnP RP with yourself? Or do you go on the street and try and play with some passers by? What did you expect? Where did BW claim they will serve you a new set of RP buddies in your lap every time you feel like playing online? I really don't see how your lack of social abilities makes this game so horrible.
quote:
Originally posted by Fionn
3. Editors come with most programs now. This one is not the greatest made. Even the guys reviewing it said you had to figure out which they said took a long time if you never did it before.
Yeah, as 3D modelling programs are abound in the world today. Not the greatest made? Name a greater one. Just one. You're arguing that 3DStudio would not be the greatest desktop 3D modelling program because it actually takes some brain to use it. Did you become an expert in this tool? If not, then what gives you the right to criticise it? Other people's opinions?
quote:
Originally posted by Fionn
Like I said..i dont see the big deal. Graphics totally blew in this game, not sure what people think is good graphics but they were pretty ordinary. Think they could have done a lot better with the video tech they have going for them.
*sigh* This one isn't even really worth replying to.
quote:
Originally posted by Fionn
Really only things I liked was a decent story line, and the spell interface. Other than that, your silly henchman would do all the work. Like the theif..Aye lemme get that!" AYE there you go."
Personally (I'm 2/3 through chapter 2, so I may not be fully qualified to talk about it yet), I find the story quite annoying. The linearity of it all is just painful. NPCs repeat themselves in annoying voices way too much and generally act very stupid. The game (SP module) does not respond to your actions at all. E.g. I have this guy tell me a 5 mile long story about his brother getting killed by the troll chief and we go through several dialog interchanges trying to establish that I'm to get the troll's head, while all along, I got the stupid head in my backpack. We even had to finish the dialog and restart it for me to be able to tell him that I got the head. Really annoying. But I didn't expect much more. I was hoping that they would fix many of the interaction issues I had with previous BW D&D games, but hope is different than expectation.
As far as henchman are concerned, I generally play without them. They mess things up more than they help (usually by running all across the map and siccing 12 monsters on me, when I wanted to pull 2 at the time). I may pick them up to help with boss monsters, but that's it. Again, I didn't have any expectations about what they would be like. When they didn't prove useful, I just dind't use them.
quote:
Originally posted by Fionn
Anyways, not saying I hate the game..just saying I dont see all the big deal. Was dissapointed after all the omg this game is the best thing that ever happened to RPG..blah blah.
This game IS the best thing that happened to RPG. Not the Diablo RPG, but PnP RPG (some may argue, the true RPG). I just think you approached the whole thing from the wrong angle. You thought you'll get a kickass SP module, that then comes with decent tools that allow you to create all this cool stuff with just a click of a button (since that would make them "good" I guess) and then, as icing on the cake, you can even DM the modules that you make. While in fact, you got an engine that allows DMing primarily (on a level never done before), a professional level world building tools to create worlds you can DM, and as icing on the cake, an SP module to keep you interested between DMed online sessions.
I could only advise you to educate yourself on what you're getting before you buy it. That's all.
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:04 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Calm down, Moondragon. Your points are all well thought out, but please ease up on the personal criticism. The game was not what he expected and he is dissapointed. It's a perfectly valid opinion, as is yours that YOU need to know how to work the tools to get the tools to work for YOU.
A lot of people are disappointed that you can't click up a perfect module straight out of the box with no background in computer programming at all. A lot.
ModeratorXen
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:45 pm |
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