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ArcturusXIV
City Guard
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Location: Oz |
Here's my current party:
Dracon Fighter
Felpurr Ninja
Felpurr Ranger
Mook Psi
Dwarf Priest
Gnome Gadgeteer
Any suggestions for a new party when I restart the game? I like this party, but I want to try something different to see how differently the game plays through.
What are the best race/class comboes, and what are the most fun and interesting classes to play? The most powerful?
Thanks in advance,
ArcturusXIV
_________________
"Madness is the first step towards unselfishness. Be mad and tell us what is behind the veil of 'sanity'. The purpose of life is to bring us closer to those secrets, and madness is the only means." --Kahlil Gibran |
Tue Apr 08, 2003 6:25 pm |
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dagoo7
Head Merchant
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 58
Location: USA |
I'm playing through for my third time, and I have pretty good experience with all classes. Here are some you should consider.
Rogue - Hard to believe based on previous wizardry's but this class is almost overpowered. Backstab is incredible and I always put on front lines. Give him the bloodlust sword and he berserks and backstabs at the same time for insane damage. Through at least the first half of the game my rogue does at least 50% of total damage. Make him a Lizardman focusing first on strength and speed, then dex and vit, and youve got a character that can pretty much carry a bunch of weaker slower developing party members. Even better meleer IMO than fighter who doesnt hit full stride until after skills go up appreciably.
Samurai - Much harder to develop and balance than the rogue, still one of most interesting characters to play. Unique items, mage spells, crit hit.
Bishop - I always play with a Bishop and think they are one of the most rewarding classes. People often complain that they are too slow to develop and therefore gimped, but other than levels and earlier access to highest level spells, I disagree. If you jack up Int and Pie, you will increase all magic skills at a steady pace. You will have a huge number of spell points and useful spells in all realms. May not hit as hard as pure caster early on, but have a great number of useful options and by endgame are as strong if not stronger than pure caster. I always choose elf and max divinity and wizardry first. Good sense of reward once you build one up too.
Other than that you could play your own valk (less annoying than Vi and stays with you) With a valk you can effectively have 4 front line fighters. SInce you played a gadgeteer last time, you might want to play a bard, although ive found bards make the first half of the game significantly easier they trail off in the endgame with exception of heal all. Monks can be interesting too, but take a long time to develop unless your focusing on bo as opposed to h2h. |
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Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:52 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Your current party has no access to the mage spellbook thru casters or hybrids. Not a huge deal, but something to consider.
I disagree with dagoo7 about a couple things. If you're looking for a dual-wield type, go with a lord. The rogue brings very little to the table (unless you aren't playing the latest patch and can use his pickpocket skill) that you can't get elsewhere. Also, monks are my favorite class. It takes a little while to get rolling, but a well-developed monk isn't bad in the beginning and becomes a killing machine in the mid- and end-game.
If this is your first time to try to finish the game (you say you're restarting, but not whether you're restarting from a win, or somewhere in the middle), you can fall back to my handy forumula. 
1) Take a ranger. Race isn't critical, although mooks, hobbits, and humans are probably best.
2) Cover your healing with either a priest or a bishop. If this is your first time, go with the priest since they're far easier to develop. The best priest races are probably rawulf and dwarf.
3) Next pick someone to be your "attack caster". There are lots of options here- mage, bishop, psionic, or alchemist. For a rookie, I'd use a mage. You have tons of good options for a mage's race, although I favor faeries and elves.
4) Next comes your lockpick. Choose from rogue, bard, or gadgeteer. Since a rogue's prime ability (pickpocket) is worthless in the latest patch, I don't recommend one of those. Between the other two, it's up to you. Like dagoo7 said, bards are useful but not dominating thru the entire game. A gadgeteer is a second-class citizen until the end-game, when he turns into a total beast. Hobbits are best suited for all three choices, although I favor female humans for bards and gadgeteers because of the improved stamina (female to take advantage of an early stamina-boost item).
5) Finally, pick 2 melee types. As I mentioned earlier, I love a hand-to-hand monk (which gives the side benefit of covering the psionic spellbook). I use a female human. For the other tank, you can go lots of different directions. A fighter is a beast, but rather boring. Lords and Ninjas have the most potential, but are the hardest to develop properly. Samurai and Valks each have interesting aspects. As far as races go: Lizzys and Dracons make great fighters. Humans and rawulfs do well as lords. You have to be a faerie ninja to use the best weapon in the game. A felpurr samurai works well. I think the valk I used was human.
The beauty of Wiz8 is that any party can be successful if you're willing to work on it. Same thing with class/race combos. The above formula works very well for a newcomer to the game. After you've played, I imagine you'll play again with different classes just to see how it goes. Next thing you know, you'll be like otter- posting about your 20+ wins and the weird tricks you discovered to develop your party more quickly. 
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:17 pm |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
I, too, am on my third time through. Between all 3 parties, I played every single class, with the only duplicates being monk, ninja and bishop. A lot of what you choose is personal preference. Page 8 of the manual outlines the race/class choices well. Suggestions:
1) If you haven't won the game yet, I recommend a ranger. I used mine as a front line tank, but others here will suggest using a rear bowman. You want him/her for scouting primarily.
2) For most players, the primary spellbooks are priest and wizardry, and alchemy and psionics are secondary. If you use a bishop, you already have mostly adequate coverage. (My second party had a bishop as the only pure spellcaster.) If not, you will probably want casters of some sort in both realms. Bishop was probably my favorite class. Max out intelligence and piety ASAP. The manual also suggests running a 2 bishop party - 1 priest/psionic and 1 mage/alchemist.
3) Ninjas are the toughest class to develop. Unless you want to develop characters a la Otter, my best suggestion is to ignore the ninja's thieving skills to focus on his fighting and spellcasting.
4) I don't love the thief. Go gadgie or bard instead, and train them to fight as needed to balance the rest of your party. (Hint: with proper strategy you can use them as an extra tank fighter. But this takes extra work and planning. I think most people use them for instruments/gadgets, and distance weapons.)
5) Priests & mages - a little plain, but very useful and powerful.
6) Good standard tank types: fighter, monk, valkyrie, lord, samurai, ranger, ninja. In order from easiest to hardest to develop, IMHO. My parties went from 3 tanks, to 5 tanks, to 2 tanks.
The basic demo party, which is very playable: fighter, ranger, monk, priest, bard, mage.
For my party suggestions:
Plain vanilla party: ranger, monk, lord, priest, bard, mage
Hybrid party: samurai, monk, ninja, valkyrie, gadgeteer, bishop
Challenge party: fighter, ninja, thief, psionic, alchemist, bishop
The parties are progressively more difficult.
_________________
The world itself shifts and changes and fades to mist like the strings of a minstrel's harp, and mayhap the dreams we forge are more enduring than the works of kings and gods.-Robert E. Howard
=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:10 am |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
my party was this:
Lizardman fighter m - by far the most powerful character from the begginning to the end. The other characters combined got about as many kills and mostly just buffed him up ressurrected eachother and cast protections.
felpurr samurai m. Never was as strong as the fighter through the end of the game at around level 23. started bad ended up ok.
dracon priest m I really liked this guy early, because priests have no offense but dracon breath is powerful early.
elf f bard. heal all is good. this character got the fewest kills. at the end she changed to ranger to use infinity helmet. Chaos drone is very powerful as it causes fear no matter what, and at my settings the monsters have high spell resistance.
m gnome gadgeteer. I like that the omnigun uses all ammo. at the end he has heal all and earthquake which are very strong. would have been better as female.
pixie female mage. important to have access to the mage class for 3 protection spells. This character died constantly and counldnt wear protective gear because it was a pixie. was one i would pick differently.
I beat the game on expert. The party was very strong by level 8, the cleric cast rest all and the bard+ gadgeteer cast area effect spells every round. 3 sources of heal all ( 4 with vi) meant I could heal faster than any monster in the game could kill. If I got my spell protections up i couldnt lose... this was after level 8 mind u I died constantly until then.
I plowed through a rapax battle with 78 rapax ( yes 7 and won which was one of my favorite parts.
.Spoiler alert heres some of the best classes to be
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Mook fighter/valkrie/lord/sam/rang type absolutley. There is a very strong sword only for mook fighter types. Make two.
Pixie ninja. Strongest weapon in the game is for pixie ninja. Kicks ass.
female bards gadgeteers and fighter. Common powerful magic item only for females regenerates stamina. those three classes use lots of stamina.
Lizardman bard gadgeteer or fighter. regenerates stamina.
Last edited by the mighty stamar on Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:20 am |
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otter
One of Us
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 1337
Location: Portland, OR |
The most powerful parties from start to finish for me have been smaller, mostly for the faster levels, which makes developing powerful characters easy. 4 is the most powerful, but 3 is often more interesting. The easiest, especially if you can PP, is 4:
Bard, develop 2ST, 2VT to 72, then SP; 2 DX. Designated haster. 11 Bard levels then switch to Samurai to use Muramasa and Inf. Helm. Hobbit my fave.
Lord or Monk; Lord duals Mauler and DE, Monk FFFF (Flying Feet and Fists of Fury). Lord if you want Rest All, either can ID. (Heal All comes from Amulets). Develop both 2ST 1VT to 66, then SP to 60 then SN; 3DX. For either, Human works nicely, and Rawulf for Lord, too. Elven Monks start too weak.
Ranger. It's just so much easier to find everything...and the faster-developing of the Alchemizing hybrids. Also duals Mauler and DE, switches to Fighter when she gets Portal. 2ST, 1VT to 72, 2 DX, 1SP to 60.
Mook Fighter. Just crank SP on creating, and ST and DX. 2ST 2VT to66, 2DX. Those Giant's Swords just can't ALL be left behind...
Nobody needs more VT than above, Infy Helms obviate the need for it. If you go like i do, and get to Ferro around L15, this party will bring much joy.
_________________
If thousand-year-old family traditions are so important to you, why do you have indoor plumbing and electricity in your family's house? |
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Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:31 am |
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dagoo7
Head Merchant
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 58
Location: USA |
The great thing about this game is that just about any party combo can work, so play what you like.
As an aside, I would argue very strongly that without a doubt that the rogue is the best dual wielder in the game and one of the best meleers. I originally discounted the rogue based on my expereince from other wizardtys (too boring, underpowered) but in Wiz8 his effectiveness is incredible. For illustration, In my second play through, I played Lizardman Fighter, Rawulf Lord, and Lizardman Rogue as my front line. My rogue ended up having the most kills by a significant margin and easily had more than 2x the kills of the Lord who did'nt really become a factor at all until late game and diamond eyes. However, I've always played rogue as Lizardman focusing on strength and putting skill points on level up primarily into combat, either largely ignoring lockpick (knock-knock spell makes lockpick not that essential) and totally ignoring pickpocket (nerfed after last patch anyways, plus pretty cheesy and uneccessary) or leaving these skills to other classes. Maybe its different for other rogue development strategies.
Those who have'nt played a rogue should check it out, I think you will be surprised. |
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Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:58 pm |
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ArcturusXIV
City Guard
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Location: Oz |
Do I have to be a Mook Fighter to use the giant sword? Or can I be a Mook Ranger?
To clarify, I'm going to play both parties through the game. Though I love my first party, most of them aren't versatile enough for me to enjoy (I made some mistakes when developing them) and I want to experience the game from a different perspective.
_________________
"Madness is the first step towards unselfishness. Be mad and tell us what is behind the veil of 'sanity'. The purpose of life is to bring us closer to those secrets, and madness is the only means." --Kahlil Gibran |
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Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:04 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
A mook ranger CAN use the giant sword. That turns your ranger into a strong melee type while still giving you the autosearch.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:28 pm |
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ArcturusXIV
City Guard
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Location: Oz |
Here's the new party I want to assemble:
Faerie Ninja
Mook Ranger
- Monk
- Bishop
- Samurai
I'm not sure what races to choose for the last three classes; any suggestions would be helpful.
Also, I'm trying to decide what I should use for the sixth party member. Alchemist? Rogue? Bard? Valkyrie? I'm looking for something versatile and challenging, but tons of fun. Something which will round out the party. The Valkyrie sounds like a fun (and possibly strategically interesting) class, but I'm hesitant to play one if there is something better to play. Any race suggestion for the last character would also be welcome. I'll probably be a lizardman if I am going to play a rogue. I'm not sure about the rest.
_________________
"Madness is the first step towards unselfishness. Be mad and tell us what is behind the veil of 'sanity'. The purpose of life is to bring us closer to those secrets, and madness is the only means." --Kahlil Gibran |
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Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:59 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Obviously, it's a matter of opinion, and you can be successful with just about anything, but here's what I'd recommend, FWIW:
Faerie Ninja (for CoC)
Mook Ranger (eventually using a giant sword)
Female Human Monk (stamina will be important, particularly end-game)
Fearie Bishop (with only 1 caster, the mana regen will be useful)
Felpurr Samurai
Female Human Bard (stamina; instruments will help with lack of casters)
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:40 pm |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
My suggestions:
Monk - human or mook
Bishop - elf; I feel the equipment/carrying capacity factor outweighs the mana regeneration. A matter of opinion, as I said before
Samurai - dracon was my choice; Otter likes hobbits!
Fourth person - two ways of doing it.
1) Valkyrie or lord. Use a formation of 5 tanks across the middle, with your bishop in back. Eventually, you will be able to rest your bishop, with the samurai and valk/lord picking up the slack. This will be especially crucial later when you are going to want both soul shield and element shield cast during the first round of combat.
2) A second bishop, sitting in the rear with the first. With 4 tanks already, you'll have enough brute force, and eventually 2 great spell casters.
Either way, I suggest focusing your ninja on fighting & thieving; alchemy is already covered by the ranger & bishop (or 2).
_________________
The world itself shifts and changes and fades to mist like the strings of a minstrel's harp, and mayhap the dreams we forge are more enduring than the works of kings and gods.-Robert E. Howard
=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:00 am |
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otter
One of Us
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 1337
Location: Portland, OR |
Yah, i'd definitely say Lord; thier Dual bonus plus Mauler Mace bonus makes Diamond Eyes in the "off" hand equal to primary, thus making Lords the most deadly melee type. Unless you got *light*.
Mook Fighter with GS is much more than twice as deadly as Ranger. If nobody can cast Detect Secrets by now, forget it. I've really liked switching Mook to fighter after 11 or 14 Bard levels (which is about when i get to a GS). I like Hobbit for Ranger for the Speed. (that's the only drawback to Mook Bards...)
Felpurr Sam? Sams get 55 Speed anyway!!! Hobbits get enough more Attribute points to make up for that.
One very missleading idea in the manual is that some race is particularly suitable "by nature". There are no hidden boni. Hobbits and Humans get the same total Att's, and all others get noticably fewer.
_________________
If thousand-year-old family traditions are so important to you, why do you have indoor plumbing and electricity in your family's house? |
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Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:45 am |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
Your last person should be a bard to pick locks.
Your bishop should be mostly priset spells. Important ones are soul shield and resurection saves you hours of real time. So divine realm.
Get one of the other guys to learn enough magic/alchemist/psionic or whatever to get elemental shield from earth. |
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Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:42 am |
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otter
One of Us
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 1337
Location: Portland, OR |
Ninja can pick locks.
Monks: I like Human; they can start with higher ST, DX and VT than even Hobbits. This is nice because if you pump ST, their Martial Arts damage soars, and it's DX that increases attack rating fastest. I only push SP up to 60--if you want first round, you caninitiate combat just around the corner to get surprise. Then when you're hasted, you rule. VT has to be maybe 72; you can't wear Inf. Helm, and Robe of Rejuv isn't a lot.
I'm running two parties through W-7 now, i finally have the game again to run a 4- and 3-member parties--which i hadn't done before. I'll report in the Party Tracker when they get to W-8. (Thanks, Bilbo--one of these days i'll remember to send you the difference in postage...)
_________________
If thousand-year-old family traditions are so important to you, why do you have indoor plumbing and electricity in your family's house? |
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Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:23 am |
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