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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
quote:
Originally posted by Bartacus
I can tell you that this is a lie. Certainly not every european country had a colony in Arabic territory. Did you know that one of the bindings between Germany, Italy and Japan during WWII was that they didn't have any colonies. And I can also tell that Belgium only had some colonies in Central Africa. I guess there are many more European countries that never had any colonies in the Arabic part of the world.
I meant UK, France, Italy and maybe another countries, i can ensure you this isn't a lie, i am talking about a war long ago, by he way, i didn't mean colony, just meant occupied countries.
quote:
Originally posted by Bartacus
1) Just for understanding: there were lots of other civilizations who were as advanced in other areas and perhaps even more then us. ex: Chinese society.
Another time you are wrong, i am talking about days before the Khan, as we know, China was occupied by mongols.
quote:
Originally posted by Bartacus
)You speak of betrayal. This means that you have found some kind of evidence that the UK once said that this part of the world should be Islamic.
I can hardly believe that one, X-dANGEr. Still I don't consider it a wise thing to give the old home land of the jews back to them. Keep in mind also why they did that. During WWII the jews were almost an extinct 'race/relegion' in European mainland. They wanted to give them sth in return, but it was not theirs to give.
In the old times when Turkeys rules the Islamic world, some Bloodthirsty ruler came along, so AL-Shaykh Ali son of Al-Hussein made an agreement with Britain and France and Italy, the deal was that they give him ammo, and he make them relieved from tha ruler, after the Islamic world was freed, the countries i metioned took the chance and attacked, France took Syria, UK took Palestine, Italy took Algeria i think.
quote:
Originally posted by Bartacus
X-dANGEr: I would also fight when any country forces me to pay higher taxes just because of my relegion. This is oppressing a relegion and as you may think you're on the right side with your faith, I do think the same of mine. The difference is that I don't see why relgion has to interfere with the everyday life with the politics of your country. I'm for the rule that France declared -> no showable relegious items when you work for the governement. I don't think you would like to be served in your own country by someone with a big cross on his T-shirt. Well neither do I by a in a bourka dressed or even just a veil female.
Don't worry that taxes aren't as you think, there are taxes for those who wants to stay on their own religion and had had given the Muslims their country with piecewhich is lower a lot, and those who had their country conqured by force which is higher, There was a formula for this thing which i forgot, the men who didn't pay the ransom were taken to prison, our prison and what is our prison, our prison is a paradise, We(muslims)were handling other religions men with reason, and of course with some evidences, and with our generousity.
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Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:14 am |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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X-dANGEr, try to consider things from the other person's point of view before you form an opinion about what happened. Take this statement of yours for example...
quote:
Don't worry that taxes aren't as you think, there are taxes for those who wants to stay on their own religion and had had given the Muslims their country with piecewhich is lower a lot,...
You are telling us that some non-Muslim people gave their country to Muslims peacefully. What did these idigenous people say?, "Here, take our country, we don't want it anymore. We like you so much we want you to have our homes, farms, and everything else." Obviously these people who "gave away their country with piece" were facing an overwhelming force that they knew they could not defeat and surrendered to save their lives.
Consider this statement as well...
quote:
There was a formula for this thing which i forgot, the men who didn't pay the ransom were taken to prison, our prison and what is our prison, our prison is a paradise, We(muslims)were handling other religions men with reason, and of course with some evidences, and with our generousity.
(Paraphrase) our prison is paradise compared to your prison. I doubt studies have been done to prove that but it is still beside the point. The point is men were taken to prison for practicing their own religion in their own country and refusing to pay a tax for it. Note the this "tax" was unreasonable by definition. What if some other country came to your country and imposed some foreign religion on you. Would a very low tax of 5% be reasonable? What if they confined you to a minimum security prison, would you think that is reasonable?
You can't just accept what everyone tries to teach you without thought. You have to consider what they are really saying. I had a 5th grade American history book that said that the colonial settlers once had to "force the Native Americans to sell them their corn." When you stop to think you immediately see that means the settlers robbed the Native Americans of their corn by force. If you don't agree I am going to buy your car from you for five dollars, if you don't accept my offer I coming to you house to force you to sell it. The point of my example, Danger, is that the victors write the history and they spin it in their favor. You should remember who taught you what you told us and reconsider everything that they ever taught you to find "facts" that have been tainted in their favor.
@Bartacus
quote:
By Bartacus
I see neither good palestinians nor good Israelis in this war. And so I call both sides bloodthirsty, cause they want to take revenge on everything.
I agree to a great degree. I can not say that the Israelis were not wrong for invading in 1948. But wars happen; you win some, and you lose some. There comes a time when you have to cut your losses and go on with life. Yes, there has been a lot of death on both sides, but someone has to be willing to "turn the other cheek" in order to stop future deaths from occuring on both sides.
Sidenote: I was not trying to preach religion but I can't help but to see the irony and to wonder if the concept of "turn the other cheek" is lost to both Muslims and Jews.
However, in this situation it is painfully clear that both sides kill civilians, want to avenge every attack, and to have ALL OF THE LAND with no sharing. This cycle will continue until one side displays some real repentance or one side is completely eradicated.
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Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:53 pm |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
quote:
Originally posted by DCole
I agree to a great degree. I can not say that the Israelis were not wrong for invading in 1948. But wars happen; you win some, and you lose some. There comes a time when you have to cut your losses and go on with life. Yes, there has been a lot of death on both sides, but someone has to be willing to "turn the other cheek" in order to stop future deaths from occuring on both sides.
Sidenote: I was not trying to preach religion but I can't help but to see the irony and to wonder if the concept of "turn the other cheek" is lost to both Muslims and Jews.
However, in this situation it is painfully clear that both sides kill civilians, want to avenge every attack, and to have ALL OF THE LAND with no sharing. This cycle will continue until one side displays some real repentance or one side is completely eradicated.
First of all, yes Israels got Palestine and life goes on, what about Israe invades on Lebanon and Syria, ahh these also are wars and wars happens, How can you COMPARE the casaulitis from Palestine side to Israel side, and pla. they were living as you could say sharing, but someday sharon wanted to enter our holy sacred mousqu and decrease it, then the revolt began taking place, so plz, alot of mistakes made by Israel.
quote:
Originally posted by DCole
You are telling us that some non-Muslim people gave their country to Muslims peacefully. What did these idigenous people say?, "Here, take our country, we don't want it anymore. We like you so much we want you to have our homes, farms, and everything else." Obviously these people who "gave away their country with piece" were facing an overwhelming force that they knew they could not defeat and surrendered to save their lives.
Of course beacause of overwhielming force, yes the surrendered regions i emant.
quote:
Originally posted by DCole
Paraphrase) our prison is paradise compared to your prison. I doubt studies have been done to prove that but it is still beside the point. The point is men were taken to prison for practicing their own religion in their own country and refusing to pay a tax for it. Note the this "tax" was unreasonable by definition. What if some other country came to your country and imposed some foreign religion on you. Would a very low tax of 5% be reasonable? What if they confined you to a minimum security prison, would you think that is reasonable?
This is th story from beginning, our prophet Mohaamad 3alayhi al-salat wa al-sallam sent many messengers for many countries inviting them to Islam, all refused and that was ok, one of the messengers was killed, so a war raged on that country, muslims took over it, then muslim culture began expanding peacefully which i mean that people were admired with the Islamic religion and changed to it PeaceFULLY, then the persians started invading muslims, so muslims crushed them down, in that time romans ruled Egypt and Syria, Palestine and Lebanon, Egyptians asked for help from the muslims, muslims came, then all the other countries followed out, at last came Palestine which was the way for Europe crusades on our Islamic world, then defended our ground and pushed over to Palestine, after this, Islamic terrorities started expanding east and west, another time Peacefully, at last another crusade came up and shreked the Islamic world for 3 countries, one in the west, one in the south, and one in the middle, the one in the middle which was led by Sallah al-dein united the Islamic countries another time, made some deals with the Bysantians, and then attacked the crusade pushed out all crusaders from Islamic world, and it continued that way.
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:22 pm |
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Bartacus
Il Buono
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
quote:
This is th story from beginning, our prophet Mohaamad 3alayhi al-salat wa al-sallam sent many messengers for many countries inviting them to Islam, all refused and that was ok, one of the messengers was killed, so a war raged on that country, muslims took over it, then muslim culture began expanding peacefully which i mean that people were admired with the Islamic religion and changed to it PeaceFULLY, then the persians started invading muslims, so muslims crushed them down, in that time romans ruled Egypt and Syria, Palestine and Lebanon, Egyptians asked for help from the muslims, muslims came, then all the other countries followed out, at last came Palestine which was the way for Europe crusades on our Islamic world, then defended our ground and pushed over to Palestine, after this, Islamic terrorities started expanding east and west, another time Peacefully, at last another crusade came up and shreked the Islamic world for 3 countries, one in the west, one in the south, and one in the middle, the one in the middle which was led by Sallah al-dein united the Islamic countries another time, made some deals with the Bysantians, and then attacked the crusade pushed out all crusaders from Islamic world, and it continued that way
There is simply no peacefull war, X-dANGEr. That's sth that doesn't exists. They write stories about greate hero's, but nothing about the dark side of the human nature. There's an expression for that in my country: Losers are always wron and winners are always right. About questioning everything -> It's quite easy to picture Hitler as the devil himself, it's much more difficult to picture him as a person of flesh and blood who (alhough I have to say very few) did some good things too.
I'm sure you're joking now. Your land? What about my God and the son of God(from my perception that is), Jesus. Born in Bethlehem, raised in Nazareth, lived near Jerusalem. This means that there's still much ground for Christianity that they are entitled to gain those places. I'm pretty sure that ther's no such thing as a peacefull relegion anymore. Those who once were aren't anymore among the living.
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Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:52 pm |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
WHAT's your point? 
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Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:53 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
@Bartacus: Want to borrow my head-banging-against-a-wall smilie?
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:04 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
X, consider reading a little history from various, relatively unbiased sources. NEVER believe ANYTHING you are told by ANYONE. ALWAYS check it out carefully for yourself!! I insist all my people do that. Even when I've said it!! 
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:39 am |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
I check it in history books, not in my poetry books.
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:56 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Then let me suggest a wider range of history books. I have read the original accounts of the Crusades for example, by the people who actually participated in them. I have read accounts from both sides, and your views are not historically correct. Bart mentioned Hitler. I read (in translation) accounts of his rise to power written by people who knew him and who were German, to contrast with the accepted English view. This allowed me to better understand the man and the situation. This is what any serious scholar must do. Before you criticise anyone, or anything, try to understand it from their perspective first.
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:26 pm |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
What is the specified wrong things in my information??
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:03 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
As people here have tried to tell you, most of it!! Check it ALL out.
_________________
If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:40 pm |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
Well, Bartacus said somethings about peaceful war and the same things you said, but i didn't mention a peacefull war, and if i did, i will make it clearer, when some nation asksfor your help and you goes and helt it, waht is this called???
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:40 pm |
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Beliarsclew
Victim Of The Greed
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 581
Location: Jordan-Middle East |
Are you talking about us? US THE MIDDLE EAST?
No For All The Prophet's sake!
Who told you that we asked for help? If you're talking about Us, Then you should correct your believes at once....
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<Sigh>.Time.Passes.Quickly. </Sigh> |
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:52 pm |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
No man, i meant in the old times when Egypt was occupied by the Romans, and we freed it.
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:14 pm |
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Bartacus
Il Buono
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
quote:
Originally posted by X-dANGEr
No man, i meant in the old times when Egypt was occupied by the Romans, and we freed it.
That's sth that we are trying to tell you, X-dANGEr. From you point of view this is just a liberation, but for most Egyptians( of that certain age off course) it was just a switch from rulers.
Btw, what I think of relegion has changed a bit during the years. Today I have also another view on it: there is not one christianity nor one Islam or one Jewish believe. We exists into many varients and in this lies the greatest danger of our faith. When one muslim(or Christian or Jew) kills another person it's already a very bad and evil thing to do. When they however start even fighting for their relegions in one group it's beginning to look more twisted. Sometimes I think the world would be much better without relegion, but in fact that's a relegion too.
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:47 pm |
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