| |
Site Navigation
Main
News
Forums
Games
Games Database
Top 100
Release List
Support Files
Features
Reviews
Previews
Interviews
Editorials
Diaries
Misc
Download
Gallery
Music
Screenshots
Videos
Miscellaneous
Staff Members
Privacy Statement
|
|
|
|
Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| Side Quest: Publishers score an 'F' |
|
Time to get our Side Quests rolling again, this time with a bit of a rant. 
<br>
<br>This piece started life as a preview of 2006 - probably something like the <a href="http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=1067" target="_blank">3-part series</a> I wrote last year covering all the titles anticipated in 2005. As I began my basic research, it was obvious there were a handful of high-profile titles such as <i>Oblivion</i>, <i>NWN2</i> and <i>Gothic 3</i> that didn't need any more coverage, along with others such as <i>The Witcher</i>, <i>Titan Quest</i>, <i>HoMM V</i>, <i>Dark Messiah of Might & Magic</i> and <i>Hellgate London</i> not far behind. There are also those games waiting for an official announcement or release date, like <i>Divine Divinity 2</i> - but that's not much use for a 2006 roundup.
<br>
<br>I decided to work on a more modest piece - something that highlighted the smaller projects that showed promise. Unfortunately, I couldn't find enough interesting second-tier titles to make the article worthwhile. Looking back at those titles I listed last year, <a href="http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=1068" target="_blank">a good half have yet to be released</a> - with several apparently struggling to find a publisher or disappearing into ignominy without an English release.
<br>
<br>Pretty disappointing.
<br>
<br>As a niche market with complex development, we all know there will be relatively few AAA RPGs each year, and they will need to appeal to a broad market by carrying a well-known license and/or designing gameplay with appeal beyond the hardcore fans. <i>Second-tier</i> titles - those with less expensive development so they can be targeted at smaller markets - are more likely to address the hardcore market directly…except second-tier RPG development is essentially dead in North America - publishers just aren't interested.
<br>
<br>All of which brings us to Europe, Eastern Europe and Russia, where lower costs and the popularity of the PC foster a burgeoning number of second-tier RPGs. There's even room for things like turn-based games, sci-fi settings and space-based RPGs, which you'll never see out of North America without an "action" prefix.
<br>
<br>As a substance-over-polish guy, I like a good number of "Euro RPGs" - warts and all. Nearly all of them are buggy and have obvious flaws but they often offer a unqiue experience on the other side of the equation - fans of <i>Gothic</i> or <i>Divine Divinity</i> will know what I mean. But it's such a shame these are the exceptions - that on the whole, a lot of potential goes to waste.
<br>
<br>It's a pity - though not surprising - that developers with limited experience and even more limited funds make mistakes; polish is generally about time and money testing and refining - something these guys often don't have. For me, even more frustrating are the basic design "mistakes". Take <i>Metalheart</i>, for example. As a fan of <i>Fallout</i> I watched this one carefully, only to be very disappointed. It's when faced with the incredible number of bugs, dreadful writing and a diabolical translation that the underlying structural flaws - the ones you knew about all along - really leap to attention. How is it that a game aimed fair and square at <i>Fallout</i> fans, with a (superficially) similar setting, turn-based combat and 2D graphics that even <b>look</b> like <i>Fallout</i> at a glance, could use pre-designed characters? Isn't it obvious that fans of a game that provides one of the best character creation systems would look for that in a clone?
<br>
<br>But an even bigger problem is English publishers. Numlock made any number of mistakes with <i>Metalheart</i> - but Dreamcatcher simply shovelled the mess into a box and shipped it. This isn't surprising when you consider the state of <i>Dungeon Lords</i> but it underlines the problem for RPG players - clearly the attitude is to turn enough sales for a profit from poor fools who don't know the rubbish they are buying. There <b>are</b> RPGs being developed in Europe and Russia with potential but English publishers largely aren't interested in developing that potential. In the main, North American publishers are apathetic about games with modest potential, which is why reasonably good games like <i>Seal of Evil</i> and <i>Space Rangers 2</i> have only recently found publishers and others miss out altogether, although the more nimble UK market is a little more adventurous.
<br>
<br>When English publishers do sign a Euro RPG, they are rarely prepared to spend a cent on it. I certainly understand the small profits with a niche game but in the scheme of game development, things like translations are relatively inexpensive. Failing to even attend to these simple things consigns many of these games to failure before they ever get released. If a small publisher were to carefully pick the best RPGs from Europe/Russia and spend just a <b>little</b> money on decent translations and QA, I believe there is a healthy hardcore player base ready to buy them. Imagine if a publisher had the courage to go a step further and actually assist these developers in addressing English markets (good user interfaces, anyone?) At the moment we have a self-fulfilling cycle: publishers treat players like chumps, pushing out sub-standard product, which doesn't sell - then point to the sales as proof the RPG market isn't worth investing in.
<br>
<br>As always, comments are welcome. |
Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:32 am |
|
|
corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
As usual Dhruin, I find myself agreeing with you. Some of the European developers have fantastic ideas, but lack the funds to do them justice. Poor translations will kill any game for the English speaking market and annoying design decisions don't help either. Gods, which has just released a second demo is a case in point. It has improved its translation since the first demo, though there are still some weird constructions. However, it regularly crashes to desktop and once re-booted my PC. This is the GOLD version, so I see a few problems ahead. Still it plays better than DL. Dreamcatcher will never get another cent out of me!!
I can't understand the NA publishers. Where would Bioware be if Interplay hadn't taken a chance on Balder's Gate? Look at the brilliance of Lazarus. That team with funding could create some awesome games on their own, but no-one will hire them.
Small teams like Josh Ritter with Minions and the pair behind Mount and Blade seem to be able to produce great games without a huge budget. Why then can't we see more funding from publishers for these small developers? Instead they fund crap like DL and then tell us 'We told you so'!! Anyway, I intend to keep my eyes peeled for more Indie gems this year. Sure I'll buy the biggies, but it's the small games that I've enjoyed the most in the past few years!!
_________________
If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
 |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:26 am |
|
|
ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
Another reason I'm pulling my hair out trying to get an update on "The Inquisitor" and "Heart of Eternity". You've really got to look globally now to find stuff that doesnt fit the usual publisher "risk free" formula.
The Gothic series and Arx Fatalis etc. show us that there is serious quality overseas. Publishers should wake up - even the stuff that makes it here barely gets marketed. The treatment of Gothic II by Atari was a travesty!!!
And what about licensing??? Talk about a nightmare - Caudron Studios gave the US the heave-ho on Conan: The Dark Axe over licensing in the US. I had to buy the PC version on EBay overseas! I almost did that for the Gothic II expansion.
And Kudo's to the Lazarus theme.
_________________
"For Innos!" |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:04 am |
|
|
corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Ha, you think it's bad in the US, you should try buying games here!! Not only do most cost $90-100, but finding Euro games is next to impossible. Gothic was not released here, G2 had a VERY limited release and the stores don't even care. Except for international biggies, like Oblivion, I buy nearly all my games via the net. Even with express mail delivery, I often save money!!
_________________
If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
|
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:21 am |
|
|
The Hulk
Avenger, Defender
Joined: 19 Feb 2002
Posts: 728
Location: Southeast U.S.A. |
I'm glad someone bought this up, the idea that publishers are sometimes to blame for things.
Ignorant people over the years have been so quick to bash developers for a game being released in an unfinished and buggy state. Yet many times, the fault is with the publisher who decided to shove a game out the door early to make their quarterly numbers look better, much to the anger, frustration, sadness of the developers who wanted to release a kick butt and stable game. Yet time and time again, you will see on forums, the average customer who gets upset about a game being released too soon, with bugs and missing features, they yell at the developers and blame them, and the publisher gets off scott free most of the time.
Discerning, intelligent gamers will know though that it isn't always the developers fault, and will not be so quick to pile onto flaming a developer because it might have been a greedy publisher who shoved a game out the door early despite the strong protestations from the developers.
Case in point, I've seen alot of people seriously flame D.W. Bradley and Heuristic Park for Dungeon Lords, yet many don't mention thier publisher. Sure, maybe D.W. and crew could have been wholly to blame, but I doubt it.
Put yourself in the place of a developer like D.W. Bradley for a minute... Think about how what if you were working on the game of your dreams, and it was taking a little more time than you thought to finish the game and get it into a relatively bug-free state, yet the publisher decided to take your game and release it as is, full of bugs and missing features, ruining your rep as a developer and shattering your dreams, making gamers hate you, how that would make you feel. Something to think about.
So what's the solution? Developers should try to self-publish, if they can. Though that's easier said than done, but then at least you can have no one over your head to answer to and you're the captain of your own ship, sailing or sinking on your own, and not by someones actions who outranks you.
_________________
"Mr. Magee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
-Bruce Banner
=Member of the Non-Flamers Guild= |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:22 am |
|
|
corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Hulk, while I agree with you about devs vs pubs, I don't with regards DL. DWB has had plenty of opportunity to set the record straight. He hasn't!! WHY did it take so LONG to get out a decent patch?!! I really think there is more to the DL fiasco than has yet to be revealed, but I do think the devs are very much to blame along with the pubs!!
_________________
If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
|
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:30 am |
|
|
Acleacius
King of the Realms
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 453
|
I agree, thou I see hope in the Online sales systems being developed.
Only a couple of years, at the most before they over take the Publishing indusrty, small Devs are begning to have the tools needed to self Publsih, especially the RPG community.
Were are seeing a return to Shareware offers, now with cheaper buy ins, which help thru Devs thru Beta and Testing Stages.
We are seeing in the Fans doing translating Mods, as with Night of th Raven and Dungeon Lords.
Honesty, I imagine DreamCatcher and JoWood hated this due to the fact it shows there inability/incompentence to do it.
Yet, if they tried to speak out against it in public, the negitive reaction from fans to the Pubs would be even worst. |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:47 am |
|
|
The Hulk
Avenger, Defender
Joined: 19 Feb 2002
Posts: 728
Location: Southeast U.S.A. |
quote:
Originally posted by corwin
Hulk, while I agree with you about devs vs pubs, I don't with regards DL. DWB has had plenty of opportunity to set the record straight. He hasn't!! WHY did it take so LONG to get out a decent patch?!! I really think there is more to the DL fiasco than has yet to be revealed, but I do think the devs are very much to blame along with the pubs!!
How would you expect DWB to set the record straight? Come on the forums and say it was the publishers fault? That could get him in alot of trouble with them. I doubt he can talk about it even if he wanted to.
As for long time to release a patch, remember he may still be at the mercy of the publisher. After DL was released, they may have a contract for him to start work on another title(DL2 perhaps)immediately. So, maybe he can work on a patch on his own time, while he's not working on his next project for dreamcatcher. If he spends too much time on the patch and takes away time from working on his next project, dreamcatcher could come down hard on him for missing milestones(some publishers seem to care little for patches, and have little patience for them). Or maybe he's understaffed and thats whats taking him so long to get patches out? So, if what I said is the case, wouldn't it be a bit mean and cruel of you to still be tearing DWB a new one on the forums when he might not be the one to blame here? I doubt either of us will ever know all the details of who is to blame for what.
_________________
"Mr. Magee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
-Bruce Banner
=Member of the Non-Flamers Guild= |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:17 am |
|
|
Guest
|
Non-disclosure agreements are pretty typical. Remember how long it was before Richard Garriott was able to speak about EA publically? Although he left EA it was over a year before he could talk about the conditions under which he left and why he left. |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:42 am |
|
|
abbaon
Head Merchant
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 64
|
| Re: Side Quest: Publishers score an 'F' |
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
At the moment we have a self-fulfilling cycle: publishers treat players like chumps, pushing out sub-standard product, which doesn't sell - then point to the sales as proof the RPG market isn't worth investing in.
Could you give an example of a publisher doing this? |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:55 am |
|
|
Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I imagine the sub-standard product part is obvious, so I assume you mean a publisher using those sales to assess the RPG market? No, I can't give you a specific example. That claim mostly comes from casual conversations I have had with a handful of Euro developers about finding publishers - but I can't give details. As a generalisation, I doubt games like Metal Heart showed good sales and publishers rely on heavily on historical sales data to predict sales.
_________________
Editor @ RPGDot |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:00 pm |
|
|
Acleacius
King of the Realms
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 453
|
"Could you give an example of a publisher doing this?"
Yes, I think so.
How about almost every PC title being snatched up and forced into lower quality standards at almost every conceivable level, for the xbox, not to mention a title like say Dungeon Lords?
Going back to the very first title Halo, even today MS intentionally dumps billions of dollars into Pub'n as long as game development time is reduced by about 50% for orginal standards set in the industry for almost 10 years before MS decided to enter the console market.
Not only are players treated like monkeys but so are the Devs, it has turned into an assembly line of low quality games.
As a matter of fact I can not think of a SINGLE game on the xbox that does not fit that description, to date.
Any chance you can suggest a single console game that does NOT fit that descriptoin and has not been severly reduced in quality? |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:38 pm |
|
|
Kristophe
Obi-Wan Kermobi
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Location: The Outer Banks of NC, USA |
*chuckles* Interesting comments re "Gods: LoI", Corwin - and you are right about the English translations being so much better in the second demo as opposed to the first demo...that's because Cypron Studios found someone qualified and willing to re-do all of the translations, commands & menues, QA, etc., for the English version of the game - and that someone was not a representative of any Publisher:-)
_________________
Memories that forgotten, cannot be... |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:09 pm |
|
|
Dajjer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Los Angeles area |
Is it just me or does it seem the height of PC gaming was also the height of single player RPG gaming?
While I agree with just about everthing Dhruin said, I also think there has been a fundamental change in the gaming market. Console game sales put PC game sales to shame. So the suits go where the money is. Additionally, far to many talented North American developers want to do multi player. And why not? Not only do players pay for your game up front but they also pay each month. No more down time as far as the wallet is concerned. Sadly I can't blame them?
With the heavy PC market in Europe, I can easily see them moving in the multi player direction. And then where will the single player RPG games be?
One possible future. The mods and programing tools are getting better and better. It's possible in the not to distant future for the RPG market to return to it garage roots. Where one or two people can design and develop a graphically interesting games. Maybe were there already with Mount and Blade & Minnions of Mirth? |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:45 pm |
|
|
Guest
Guest
|
The author of this article seems to have the right of it.
That said, I think it would go better for European devs if they polished their games a bit more. It may attract better publishers, and even if it doesn't, it would help grow the market for their games as people won't consider what they make to be total garbage.
As for consoles. I don't mind consoles, but big publishers and M$ are really dragging PC developers into the mud with multiplatforming. |
|
Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:44 pm |
|
|
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next
All times are GMT. The time now is Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:41 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
