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Jay
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 245
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Moriendor, I disagree with about the amount of game time. Certain game styles are suited to short playing time; shooters, platforms etc. Might and Magic games tend to have a lot of playing hours, but I have completed 7 and 8. Balders Gate 2 ( I know that you are not a big fan of the Infinity engine) is epic in scope and playing time. I have been playing it for a year, and still enjoy it as much as when I first got it. The fact that the add-on sells so well shows I am not alone. I did not have much time to play from January to May ( Exam), yet I still always went back to BG2. I know that it is too long for some people, but then buy another game.
Ulima 7 is for many, me included, the ultimate RPG. It was huge, took an age to complete, but the personal satisfaction I feel from beating it is unsurpassable. The same for M+M 7 and 8, Fallout 2, and other epic games.
I do not complete these games in a week or two, it is a long term investment. When I buy a game, I like to think that I will still play it years later. Arcanum, Divine Divinity and especially Morrowind all look to include a lot of playing hours. But these will proberbly the only games I will buy in the next 6 months.
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Sun Jul 22, 2001 9:19 am |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
Well, I was more talking about the economic factors. I also don't mind epic games. On the contrary. I love well designed epic RPG's. Took me ~70 hours to finish Gothic and MM7 probably even took a lot longer than that.
However, that was not the point.
I was just thinking that only very few players will actually finish games like BG2 because of its ~200 hours of gameplay.
In times of developers and publishers going bankrupt, they have to try to find a solution to get of their financial woes.
That's why my suggestion was to reduce project size. A game with 80 hours of content will definitely be produced faster than a game with 200 hours of content and the lesser number of gameplay hours is not going to hurt sales as long as it doesn't go down too much and as long as the content is good.
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Sun Jul 22, 2001 11:26 am |
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Stiletto
God Emperor
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 312
Location: Orlando, Florida |
And you can always pack those extra 120 hours into 1 or 2 add ons. I like add ons myself, if you already have the engine instead of making a whole new game out of it, just throw some more questing into the same world. |
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Sun Jul 22, 2001 12:00 pm |
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Jay
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 245
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Sorry, I misunderstood. But I still disagree about BG2. The fact that the add-on sells so well shows there is a market for epics. Another problem RPGs have, is the sheer amount of options. A game like Arcanum and Deus Ex most take forever to programm, because of the sheer amount of variables involved. Its the reason why I am very forgiving with bugs. Daggerfall and Fallout were worth the effort. |
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Sun Jul 22, 2001 5:02 pm |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
to Wizardry 8:
Fact 1) Sirtech finds no publisher
Fact 2) the grafik engine is dated
=> the market value of the game is
falling day by day
=> Sirtech Product Manager:
publish the game by yourself - maybe
on a shareware basis like Spiderweb-
Software(Exile Series).
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Sun Jul 22, 2001 8:11 pm |
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mdibella
Village Dweller
Joined: 27 Jul 2001
Posts: 1
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To mr anonymous beta tester: Notice please that I'm NOT posting anonymously. I was a beta tester for Wiz8 and I'm not afraid to give my name.
I don't know what game YOU tested, but in my opinion, Wiz8 is a masterpiece. The game is well designed, well plotted, and very nice to look at. In places, it's breathtakingly lovely.
I played it all the way through. Several times. When you're a real beta tester, you do that sort of thing. I've tested many games, for several publishers, and I must admit that sometimes it can get pretty tedious towards the end of a game's test cycle, what with the feeling of 'been there, done that' every time you play. This was NOT the case with Wiz8. Every time I fired it up, I discovered something new about it, I saw something I hadn't noticed before, I experienced some fun that I hadn't had up until then. I smiled each and every time I played that game. Sometimes I laughed out loud, I was just so darned IMPRESSED with the quality of the experience. Even now, with the testing finished, I still have it on my hard drive, and I still play it for fun.
I feel proud to have been selected to test this game, and I feel really lucky to have already had the opportunity to see it. At the same time, I feel envious of folks who haven't seen it yet, because I know what they have to look forward to, and I know they're gonna LOVE IT!
I don't feel the need to post anonymously because I stand behind my words and I am happy to do so. |
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Fri Jul 27, 2001 7:46 pm |
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Guest
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I heard about this post, but I had to see it for myself.
I've been part of the Beta test on Wiz 8 since phase one and I'm about to finish the game for the tenth time. I typically play expert level and even played an Iron Man game.
The gameplay is addictive and enjoyable. I believe any fan of Wizrdry will be more than pleased. In fact, the last time I tried to play BGII, I quit after about 15 min--it just did not live up to the experience I got from Wiz 8.
I'm waiting for the game to be released so I can trade tactics and get hints to those last couple of secrets/puzzles I have not solved yet.
- DRD |
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Sat Jul 28, 2001 7:48 pm |
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Neolite
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Jul 2001
Posts: 11
Location: Denmark |
If they can't find a publisher for the game, can't they just sell is directly from their webpage as a download and the manual as a .pdf file? Is that suggest too far out?
[ This Message was edited by: Neolite on 2001-07-28 17:07 ] |
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Sat Jul 28, 2001 10:06 pm |
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Stiletto
God Emperor
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 312
Location: Orlando, Florida |
Who knows what they will do if they can not find a publisher. Publishers must be good for something, otherwise they would not exist, and we would not be having so much trouble with so many good games trying to find publishers all the time. I am guessing by needing a publisher, they need money NOW. If they sell the game themselves, they do not get money now. They get a slow stream of money coming in. Publishers must buy games for X dollars giving the developers a lump sum of cash now in the hopes they game will give them a steady income to make up the money. Of course if the game flops, they just spent X dollars without a good enough return to make up the cash money. I am guessing Sir Tech needs some money, lots of money, and it needs it yesterday.
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Stiletto
God Emperor |
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Sun Jul 29, 2001 2:53 pm |
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Rendelius
Critical Error
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
On the beta tester mail: RPGDot knows the name and email of the one who posted the anonymous post here. He contacted us by mail, too. We tried to reestablish contact to him after he mailed us, but have failed so far.
We think his opinion is authentic, but this doesn't necessarily mean we share it. Just to let you know.
_________________
Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
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Sun Jul 29, 2001 5:55 pm |
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daSource
Village Dweller
Joined: 04 Aug 2001
Posts: 4
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I wasnīt part of the beta-test, but Ian Currie was nice enough to send me a copy of the press-demo (for a review at our site) - and I almost wish he hadnīt!
The game was a bit difficult to get used to (especially the combat), but once I had grasped the basics and accepted the idea of turn-based, strategic combat, I just wanted more!
It was very addictive, and unusually (for a rpg) tactical - you really got the feel of using your characters every ability to a maximum.
And sure, my first impression was that of outdated graphics (because I just had played Giants). But the rich colors and the almost hand-drawn (not rendered) textures grew on me, and gave away to a more immersive, almost intimate feel than even Giants could muster. The kind of game you just wanna savor, not just be momentarily dazzled by.
On the consol vs. PC note - although most small developers probably are more computernerds than wall-street slicks, small and plenty keeps the industry more inventive than the upcomming monopoly. Soon all we will see are very regulated (both content and timing) releases, and we will be deep in the same kind of predictive grease Hollywood pumps out. A shame, really, that money always behave so covardly when it is most potent.
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Nordichardware Gamers |
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Sat Aug 04, 2001 8:34 pm |
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mtkafka
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jul 2001
Posts: 24
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its not good that you betatesters are actually teasing us. Contempt i say! anyway, if the graphics are as good as WW and the gameplay is as tactical as wiz 7... hell i dont care, it could look like wiz 1... just give me my wizardry 8!
btw, you betatesters could send me a copy if you want to. Dont worry Im buying a couple copies whenever Wiz 8 is released! Thank you.  |
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Sun Aug 05, 2001 11:23 am |
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Guest
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Our good friends at Sir-Tek were trying use Wiz 8 to bargain a publishing deal for for Wiz 9 and JA3 which has clearly failed. Rumor had it the Curries were asking a guaranteed 3 mil. Also, the European publishers of the last JA expansion seems to have decided to stop paying them for some reason.
With the dot-bomb and most publishing focused on consoles right now no one seems to be too interested in a niche genre for the PC - and yes, those that are are probably circling like vultures on Sirtek to get a better deal seeing as Dan Currie has quoted to give the company about three more (two now) weeks to live.
They should have done the marketing in Pascal; there are limits to that BASIC marketing they've been using for the last 20 years.
And would I like to get my hands on a Beta or Press Demo.
LuckyDay Dragon
PS - Trebor sux |
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Mon Aug 06, 2001 3:44 am |
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Rendelius
Critical Error
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
It hurts to hear that RPG's are a niche market, but probably you are right.
The problem with RPG's is that they cost a lot to develop - and they don't have this large audience. If you do a shooter, you license a nice engine and tweak it a littel, but actually there is no engine that has the needed flexibility to produce appealing RPG's. The Infinity engine is dated now, maybe the Dungeon Siege engine or the one used for NWN can fill this gap and we see a lot of new, successful RPG's out there soon.
I am curious how Arcanum will do on the marketplace. Don't kill me, but I don't have high expections...
_________________
Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
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Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:04 am |
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mtkafka
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jul 2001
Posts: 24
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they were asking 3 million for all 3 games? That is alot. No wonder nobody wanted to publish it. RPG's are expensive but to ask 1 million upfront for a game... well, it better be guranteed a moderate seller (which im not sure Wiz 8 is). I'm not saying Wiz 8 isnt worth a million (hell if i was a millionaire id give sir tech 10 million to develop Wizardry forever)... but they have to be realistic i guess.
My guess is Wizardry 8 could do about 100k in sales if it got good word of mouth. IMO, if they really want to sell alot... they might as well make a Diablo or Consolish RPG for PS2. though even those arent guranteed. RPG's are a hard market to crack i think.
anyway, rambling.
etc |
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Mon Aug 06, 2001 10:00 am |
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