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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
| Gothic / Gothic 2 History questions |
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I had some questions about the whole Gothic backstory that I hoped someone could answer. If any of these answers would reveal spoilers to Gothic 2, please don't reveal spoilers. 
1. "Khoronis" is a large island which has both the city of Khoronis, its surroudning lands, and finally the ore mines which were at one time housed within the barrier. Is this accurate?
2. Were the Orcs always in Khoronis? It would seem so because in Gothic we visit many areas in the Orc lands (the cemetary, the old monastery, the sleeper temple) that suggest a long occupation in those lands.
3. By the same token, it is assumed that human ore barons also occupied the lands of Khoronis and that they did business with the king. When war broke out, could we assume that the King seized the property of these old ore barons and took prisoners to work in the mines? For evidence of the old ore barons, recall Lester's search for the deed in that old fort. Also, remember Milton's story about the ore baron that went into that tomb where the focus was. Clearly it is implied that Humans were in Khorinis in the pre-barrier days at the same time as the orcs.
4. Is Khoronis the headquarters of the ORCS? Are there Orcs elsewhere in the Kingdom of Murtana? It seems that the orc lands are far south on the map in the original Gothic. Are there even more orc settlements further souch, off of the map?
5. How did the original ore barons deal with the orcs? Were the orcs always hostile to them or did they just stay out of each other's ways? |
Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:38 pm |
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oE|Crusader
Village Leader
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 93
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1.yes
2.yes, they were there, but usually non hostile and stupid
3.yep thats right, they were just at a "nutral zone" type treaty
4.er no
5.they apperantly had some kind of agreement which they each broke |
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Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:51 pm |
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ghola
City Guard
Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 146
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Crusader's answers seem fair to me, except for 4 because G2 refers to orcs on the mainland, so apparently orcs are a global phenomena.
And in G1, didn't Ur-Shak mention something about 5? Also, according to G1 humans enslaved orcs to work in the mines of Khorinis and there was a bit of "Save the orcs!"going on in G1. :p Apparently orcs are the underdogs, a backwards and exploited race, subject of political demonization and angry like hell... sorta like very ugly Palestines. Ah there's nothing like a bit of social psychology, is there? :p |
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Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:12 am |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
5 is not correct; the colony was created due to Orc hostilies, so there were no Ore Barons BEFORE the Orc war.. the entire colony(The Old Camp, the mines and so on), was created after the war broke out. So the old Ore Barons of the Old Camp handled the orcs just like the new one - kill'em on sight.. the thing is, the only orcs inside the colony belong to the little village, and that village alone does not pose any real threat to the Old Camp - the war is fought elsewhere. |
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Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:29 am |
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hoyp
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 501
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I never understood gothic's background |
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Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:31 am |
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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Maylander
5 is not correct; the colony was created due to Orc hostilies, so there were no Ore Barons BEFORE the Orc war.. the entire colony(The Old Camp, the mines and so on), was created after the war broke out. So the old Ore Barons of the Old Camp handled the orcs just like the new one - kill'em on sight.. the thing is, the only orcs inside the colony belong to the little village, and that village alone does not pose any real threat to the Old Camp - the war is fought elsewhere.
Make's sense, but how did the King know that there was valuable ore there? There must have been some human settlers there before the war. |
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Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:41 am |
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ballistic
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 44
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Gothic 1 gave me the impression of the Orks being an ancient and well-established civilization... while the Humans were more of a motley crew of ore barons, criminals and prospectors that spread over the land. |
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Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:05 am |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Xardas clearly states that "The Orc culture is as old as the human culture" meaning both are as old as oneanother.
As far as I know, the collapsed mine(near where you start) is older than the colony, so the King used the area to mine ore a long time ago, but never needed as much ore as now(the war originally started out against ALL kinds of creatures, but the Orcs were the only to resist, and therefore the King constantly needs more ore). |
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Sat Jan 11, 2003 9:32 am |
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RobKob
Head Merchant
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 73
Location: Thuringia, Germany |
O.K. These are my thoughts. A bit disordered but... 
I've got the impression thatb the magical ore of Khorinis has been mined since ancient times. The ore armor suggests that. I think the island has been under human control for many centuries if not millennia. The orcs that built the Sleeper temple were probably very isolated from the rest of the orcs. I guess they kept a low profile, so the humans ignored the "savages". Anyway, their existance on the island probably dates back to ancient times, too.
What I don't know is whether they always used prisoners in the mines, but considering the hard work and the dangers I'd say they always used forced labour. Before the creation of the barrier the castle was the seat of the duke or baron or whatever of Khorinis. I imagine the rulers of Myrtana always paid close attention to his loyalty because of the extreme importance of the island. But most likely the island of Khorinis is in the possession of the ruling house of Mytana and the duke or whatever of this island is just a trusted steward. It's possible that the steward of Khorinis was nicknamed "ore baron", and later, when Gomez and his men became the rulers of the colony they adopted the nmae.
The barrier was not created because of the orcs, not directly at least. Probably because of ever increasing numbers of prisoners, worsening conditions and the removal of guards who were needed elsewhere the security of the penal colony could no longer be maintained. So, to ensure the flow of the essential magical ore, the barrier was created. Because the humans in the valley were now isolated too, and perhaps because of the stirring Sleeper, the orcs in the valley began to act more agressively.
The war was originally against other human nations, and IIRC they were the agressors. Myrtana was able to defeat or conquer its numerous foes but spent all its strength. Therefore it wasn't able to repel the following invasion of orcs. So the human nations had doomed themselves with their wars. An interesting question is: was the time of the orcish invasion just a coincidence or did the orcs wait for the human nations to weaken each other.
Regarding the ore baron that got turned into a zombie guardian: The focus stone was placed in the cave and the cursing spell was cast after the creation of the barrier. So the ore baron was a prisoner of the colony.
Regarding Lester's document: I never liked it. It's unrealistic that this little old parchment can make a puny loony commoner the owner of probably the most important fiefdom of Myrtana. Feudal societies didn't work this way. Oh, well. 
_________________
"Time to toss the dice." Matrim Cauthon |
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Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:45 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Advice: watch the intro of Gothic 1 once more people..
Xardas(the voice in the intro) says the war was against all other "creatures", and the orcs were the only creatures they weren't able to defeat..
The barrier was created so the prisoners would be kept from escaping..
Regarding the miners of old, and the zombie ore baron: I agree 100% with the recent post. |
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Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:59 pm |
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RobKob
Head Merchant
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 73
Location: Thuringia, Germany |
Perhaps the English intro is different, but in the German one it says: "In the long years of his reign he was able to defeat all enemies of the realm, all but one." There is no mention of a war against all creatures. But the history section of the manual is more explicit: Myrtana was a very rich and powerful kingdom, which made the neighboring human kingdoms - and most of all Varant - very envious. So they waged war against it. Rhobar I. managed to defeat the attackers, and burned or occupied the lands of his enemies. But Myrtana's military and economy was pushed to its limits and unfortunately Rhobar I. died. Rhobar II. took over and was already planning how to lead Myrtana back to its former strength when the orcs from the northern lands began their invasion. I think we can assume that the orcs wouldn't have been a problem for a strong Myrtana.
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"Time to toss the dice." Matrim Cauthon |
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Sun Jan 12, 2003 2:27 pm |
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Krak
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 4
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quote:
"In the long years of his reign he was able to defeat all enemies of the realm, all but one."
Those are the exact words of the english one all so, I don't see how you got creatures maylander. |
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Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:05 am |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Due to some info from Gothic 2(and inbetween) talking about Dragons, Dragon armies and so on.. also, humans always kill creatures before each other(if a nation is at civil war, the best way to ally them is by announcing a common foe), so there is simply no way humans would wage war against humans, before waging war against the orcs, and since the orcs are the last foes, there were no human foes in the beginning.. at least this is what seems logical to me.
Example. If aliens invaded the earth, the US wouldn't spend much time fighting Iraq instead, would they? The most likely outcome is the entire earth fighting as a single unit for survival..
Note, since we're talking about "The Kingdom of Mortana", there must be other humans as well(or else it would've just been the world of men), but I honestly do not think they were involved in the war(a war against humans before hostile armies of non-humans makes no sence). |
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Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:27 am |
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RobKob
Head Merchant
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 73
Location: Thuringia, Germany |
As I said in my last post, the war between Myrtana and its agressive neighbors was already finished before the orcish invasion begun. Now its humans against orcs, but the humans weren't united because of the common orcish foe, they were united by victorious Myrtana.
Admit it, Maylander, you didn't read my entire last post. 
_________________
"Time to toss the dice." Matrim Cauthon |
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Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:14 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
RobKob.. I am sorry to say that I didn't read it at all.. 
I saw the post beneath your post, and just replied.. BUT now I'll take a look, and reply here:
Hmm.. the manual.. I think I would have to dig it out of a pile of dust if I wanted to take a look at it, but I trust your quoting from it, and from what you say, I think we can assume that the Orcs decided to attack because of the war which weakened Myrtana(no weakening - no attack), if not, they would've attacked already.. |
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Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:19 pm |
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