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crpgnut
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 197
Location: St. Louis |
| Lionheart: Glorified Infinity Engine, again?!!! |
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Who else is getting tired of games where your on-screen characters are
1" tall? My eyes are getting too old to strain at these little screens. Top-down games need to increase their character size! Arcanum, BG2, Icewind Dale, etc. are no longer acceptable, IMHO. I'll never pay more than $20 for
a game with such dated looking graphics again. If it looks like shareware,
it should be as cheap as shareware. I never thought I'd join the 1st person
crowd, but Morrowind and Gothic and even pathetic MM9 look lightyears better than these "new" infinity games. I just looked at the Lionheart screens and it took me back to Fallout graphics. Ugh! 1994?
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'nut |
Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:52 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
In my humble opinion, I rarely care about the graphics if what's at the heart of a game is good. Graphics never influence my decision to purchase a game or not. Although that being said I agree that the Infinity engine (or any type of similar engine) is looking dated. Still, that doesn't mean the game will be bad.
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:51 pm |
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crpgnut
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 197
Location: St. Louis |
quote:
Originally posted by Ekim
In my humble opinion, I rarely care about the graphics if what's at the heart of a game is good. Graphics never influence my decision to purchase a game or not. Although that being said I agree that the Infinity engine (or any type of similar engine) is looking dated. Still, that doesn't mean the game will be bad.
My take Ekim is that I'll play the games that come out, I'm just not going to
pay full price for them. If Morrowind or Gothic sells for $40-50 that seems reasonable. Lionheart, which is saving a lot of money on graphics, should
then sell for $20-30. That's not been the case. Why should I pay top dollar for a less than top of the line game? They're cutting costs so they should pass the savings on to us. Yeah, Right! 
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'nut |
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:44 pm |
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Aeolus
Village Dweller
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 19
Location: UK |
They may be paying less for the graphics engine but Bioware sell the Infinity Engine for $300,000 anyway.
And... The entire environments are mapped in 32bit, hi res 6000x3000 pixels - which spans usually over one CD, higher expenses for publishers you could say.
If they made a BG3 in the Infinity Engine right now I'd go out and buy it. It is just such a kick ass game.
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-Denethorn |
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:02 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by crpgnut
My take Ekim is that I'll play the games that come out, I'm just not going to pay full price for them. If Morrowind or Gothic sells for $40-50 that seems reasonable. Lionheart, which is saving a lot of money on graphics, should
then sell for $20-30. That's not been the case. Why should I pay top dollar for a less than top of the line game? They're cutting costs so they should pass the savings on to us. Yeah, Right!
But how did you know that Gothic or Morrowind were worth the $40 to $50 admission price before you bought them? Because of the graphics? All things that glitter are not gold my friend...
And about savings. If the studio is a smaller, independent one that is not backed by a large publisher, then they are not "saving" money. They are trying to maximize their product quality with whatever budget they have. Now, I'm not saying that Lionheart is made by a small production house, I don't know much of that game actually. My only point here is that I wouldn't peg an older engine with less than on-par graphics game to be a "budget" game. If the game is good and sells well, and they make good enough profits to be able to evolve and become bigger, then all the power to them!
If the game is a dud though, then I would agree with you. But I haven't played Lionheart, have you? I can't make such an assumption. If you were to look at Baldur's Gate II right now without knowing what it is, without knowing where it comes from or how good it was, you are saying you would pass the game because it's too expensive for the low quality graphics.
But again, if for you Graphics is the only factor that comes into play when deciding if a game is worth it, then forget about Lionheart and look at other games, it's as simple as that.
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:33 pm |
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crpgnut
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 197
Location: St. Louis |
I'm still not going to pay top of the line money for a game that I have to strain to see. My major complaint with these games is that it is very difficult to see details on a 1" tall character. Can you imagine if you had to actually find a ring in Baldur's Gate 2. One that is just lying on the ground somewhere with no highlighting. It'd be impossible! Morrowind has spoiled me, I think. These games will still have certain parts of them that are better than Morrowind, can anyone say journal?, but the bar has been raised on what is an acceptable minimum.
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'nut |
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:42 am |
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Myrthos
Spoiler of All Fun
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 1926
Location: Holland |
Just to add something: Lionheart is not made with the Infinity Engine. It's still and Isometric engine with pre-rendered backgrounds, but the characters are 3D and the scripting is better handled, to name a few pros of it in respect to IE
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 11:18 am |
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Guest
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Lionheart looks pretty cool to me. Sounds like an original story and a unique idea. I like the pseudo-historical backdrop as well. |
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:07 pm |
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Kendrik
Thin Blue Line
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 550
Location: England |
quote:
Originally posted by crpgnut
I'm still not going to pay top of the line money for a game that I have to strain to see. My major complaint with these games is that it is very difficult to see details on a 1" tall character. Can you imagine if you had to actually find a ring in Baldur's Gate 2. One that is just lying on the ground somewhere with no highlighting. It'd be impossible! Morrowind has spoiled me, I think. These games will still have certain parts of them that are better than Morrowind, can anyone say journal?, but the bar has been raised on what is an acceptable minimum.
But with the more complex graphics come new problems - you only have to look at the Morrowind board to see that it runs like a dog with three legs on many people systems. Also I tend to like the isometic viewpoint (but thats just a personal opinion). As for value for money the IE games tend to have more content and the dungeons tend to be better designed. (IMHO)
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:20 pm |
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The Hulk
Avenger, Defender
Joined: 19 Feb 2002
Posts: 728
Location: Southeast U.S.A. |
I think it was a mistake for them to decide to not go with full 3-d for Lionheart. Since they didn't, my interest level in the game is kinda low. Oh well, I guess I can always hope for one of the sequels to be in 3-d.
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:04 am |
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crpgnut
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 197
Location: St. Louis |
I don't care about 2D vs 3D really. My main gripe with Lionheart is the size of things onscreen. My eyes get tired quickly if I have to squint to make out details. When your fancy new two-handed sword is only 1/16" of screen real estate it is very difficult to see. Oh well, maybe I can run it in 640X480!
Then my two-handed sword might be a whole inch long  I'm getting too old for these miniscule graphics. Who cares how detailed your character is, if you can't see him/her clearly anyway? I'm sure I'll buy Lionheart, but I admit the Infinity Engine sized characters are a huge detractor for me. Even
Geneforge's characters are larger onscreen than this game. I hope the storyline, magic, and combat engines make up for the subpar graphics engine of the game. So far it sounds like it has.
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Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:43 pm |
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ArcturusXIV
City Guard
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Location: Oz |
Personally, I think the close-in view of Planescape: Torment was the best use of the Infinity Engine. I'd like to see more games with closer views as well, CRPGNUT.
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"Madness is the first step towards unselfishness. Be mad and tell us what is behind the veil of 'sanity'. The purpose of life is to bring us closer to those secrets, and madness is the only means." --Kahlil Gibran |
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Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:10 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
I just never find ISO games that immersive--the overhead view seems too unnatural. I play them and enjoy them but so far I've never had one pull me in like a first or third person game will. |
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Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:24 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
It's all a matter of taste, of course, but I don't think 2D ISO is less valid than 1st or 3rd person 3D.
I like party-based CRPG games and 1st/3rd person simply doesn't do the job. I agree the avatars lack definition but on the other hand the individually crafted detailed 2D backdrops are beautiful compared to washy 3D textures and trees that look like they're assembled from 2 cardboard cutouts . The engine (Velocity?) in Lionheart is much nicer than the old IE.
It really depends on what the designer wants to do. As Gig notes, the immersion factor with a 3D engine is high but sometimes other concerns are paramount.
PS:T was good, but the close-up view restricted ranged weapons - no bows for instance. I like rangers - sometimes a 2D ISO engine with pulled out view really is the best! |
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Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:40 am |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
WEll I started 2 isometric games at the same time a few months ago.
Divinie divinity and IWD2. The IWD2 characters looked like nintendo1 compared to the DD avatar.
I would prefer my isometirc characters be even larger than DD if I play another game like that. |
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Sat Mar 22, 2003 3:23 am |
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