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Max Killen
Exalted Potentate
Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 1112
Location: Why not Minot? |
I am thinking of getting a new computer. I have upgraded this computer too much and I think it would be cheaper (maybe) just to buy a new one. I am looking at Cybersystemsinc online and have a question about CPU's Which one is better, a Pentium 4 or a Athlon64 3500+ . On paper the P4 looks faster; but some people are telling me the Athlon is better for games. The standard hard drive is a Hitachi 160GB 7800rpm. The video card I'm think of is a single Nvidia 6800gt 256mb. What do you think? |
Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:10 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I've never had any problems with Intel processors. My AMD however has caused me to curse it on more than one occassion.
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Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:23 pm |
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Enderandrew
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 111
Location: Omaha, NE |
Go to any benchmark website, and you will see that AMDs are superior for gaming. I don't hate Intel. I build Intel systems for people when there is a reason to go with Intel, such as video editting.
However, the AMD 64-bit processors are incredible for gaming.
The Intel systems also operate on a 800 mHz FSB. The AMD 64-bit systems have HyperTransport, where the processor has a direct line of communication with devices, at 1,000 mHz (if you're running a newer chipset, or 800 mHZ for later chipsets). This direct line of communciation is twice as fast as a bus, so it operates like a 2,000 mHZ or 1,600 mHz FSB, as opposed to the 800 mHz FSB Intel offers.
The AMD 64's run cooler, and cost less.
As far as the video cards go, the Radeon 6600GT provides the same performance as the 6800, for the same money. |
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:32 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Enderandrew
As far as the video cards go, the Radeon 6600GT provides the same performance as the 6800, for the same money.
There is no Radeon 6600GT. 
I would also go for the AMD. Both platforms are stable enough, except for the brand new stuff, of course. The Athlon 64 is better for gaming and produces clearly less heat than the Pentium, which makes cooling less problematic and less noisy. The Pentium is faster at certain applications, so after all itīs about equal.
A warning about the nVidia 6n00 series: these cards are incopatible with the Gothics! I donīt know if the comparable ATI cards work flawlessly, though.
I also read lots of horror stories about nVidiaīs latest cards: bad product quality, driver issues, loud fans, recalls by a certain manufacturer, many defective cards, and so on. My own 6600GT didnīt cast doubts upon those stories.
I would suggest you buy a proven product like a Radeon 9800 Pro. This will do for at least another year, and maybe even longer.
Consider buying 2 smaller hard disks. Maybe RAID is too hardcore for you, but copying large files works faster from one drive to the other, plus your personal documents are safer if you can store a copy on both drives.
Do you plan to buy big now or do you want to upgrade a bit once a year?
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:35 am |
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Max Killen
Exalted Potentate
Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 1112
Location: Why not Minot? |
quote:
A warning about the nVidia 6n00 series: these cards are incopatible with the Gothics! I would suggest you buy a proven product like a Radeon 9800 Pro. This will do for at least another year, and maybe even longer.
Consider buying 2 smaller hard disks. Maybe RAID is too hardcore for you, but copying large files works faster from one drive to the other, plus your personal documents are safer if you can store a copy on both drives.
Do you plan to buy big now or do you want to upgrade a bit once a year?
Are you saying the Gothic games won't play with the nVidia cards? I don't want that. I printed out the option list for the stuff that can go into my computer. They list a Radeon x800 pro 256mb card as an option. Is this the same as the 9800 you mention?
This option list is like looking at a French menu. I don't understand much! The standard motherboard is a K8n sckt939 NEO4-f nForce4 Chipset SATA Raid PCI-E w/GbLAN, USB2.0,&7.1Audio. - which means absolutely nothing to me. Is this any good? Any advice is helpful.
Do I plan on upgrading once a year? I don't think anyone plans to upgrade at all. The games just keep getting bigger and better with more detail. A computer is a like a big hole in the ground that you have to cover up with money.
One more thing: memory. It comes with GEIL VALUE RAM 1024 I512MBx2) PC3200 400 MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY. Someone recommended Kingston Hyper-X High Performance Memory w/heat Spreader. What do you think? Thanks for any reply |
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:50 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Max Killen
Are you saying the Gothic games won't play with the nVidia cards? I don't want that.
The latest nVidia cards have a texture flickering problem with G2. Itīs still unresolved. Some people have no problems, but so far nobody was able to see a system behind it.
Of course this doesnīt imply that new ATI cards donīt have a similar problem.
quote:
I printed out the option list for the stuff that can go into my computer. They list a Radeon x800 pro 256mb card as an option. Is this the same as the 9800 you mention?
No, itīs newer and lightning fast. You only get "new" cards for PCIe.
quote:
This option list is like looking at a French menu. I don't understand much!
Itīs not that complicated. Just google for reviews of the exact parts. Reviews usually include comparison numbers. An afternoon of surfing and you know exactly whatīs going on.
quote:
The standard motherboard is a K8n sckt939 NEO4-f nForce4 Chipset SATA Raid PCI-E w/GbLAN, USB2.0,&7.1Audio. - which means absolutely nothing to me. Is this any good? Any advice is helpful.
This is still not detailed enough. Itīs probably an MSI K8N Mainboard. MSI is the worldīs 2nd biggest manufacturer and the K8N is their high-end line. Depending on the model itīs as fast as it gets -in this class- and has all the things onboard youīll never need in your whole life. Now you only need to find out which of the many different K8N mainboards they use.
Do you have a link to the PC?
quote:
One more thing: memory. It comes with GEIL VALUE RAM 1024 I512MBx2) PC3200 400 MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY. Someone recommended Kingston Hyper-X High Performance Memory w/heat Spreader. What do you think? Thanks for any reply
Doesnīt matter. If you donīt want to overclock you should buy the cheaper memory. How much more expensive is 2*1024 MB? Nobody needs 2 GB now, but in a year things might look differently.
Overclocking an Athlon64 is pretty complicated, I heard, but more often than not the CPU is capable of working at a much higher speed than specified. ou should only try this when youīre out of warranty and in need of more speed, though. Itīs not uncommon for an Athlon64 3000+ (1800 MHz) to run at 2500 MHz. A 3500+ comes at 2200 MHz out of the box. The difference in "real MHz" to the Intel CPUs can be explained by the hogher efficiency of the AMD CPU. AMD gets more work done per MHz than Intel, thus Intel needs a higher clock to compensate this.
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:36 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Woah! A gazillion options!
Two questions:
How much do you want to spend?
Is noise a problem?
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:42 pm |
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Max Killen
Exalted Potentate
Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 1112
Location: Why not Minot? |
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
Woah! A gazillion options!
Two questions:
How much do you want to spend?
Is noise a problem?
1. 1400 bucks, but there are things I don't need, like the killer computer case, mouse, monitor, keyboard, etc.
2. I would like a nice quite computer. |
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:49 pm |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
If you like it to be quiet, don't get a n'Vidia card, because if i am sleeping and some one tuens on my PC, i will wawke up...
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:09 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
I saw neither a silent CPU cooler nor a silent graphics card. 
Do you have an ALDI or Lidl nearby? Both are selling gaming PCs in Germany for ~950 EUR this week. I bet the same PCs come overseas in the near future.
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:17 pm |
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Max Killen
Exalted Potentate
Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 1112
Location: Why not Minot? |
OK, I will settle for some noise |
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:26 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Okay, I looked into it a bit. My suggestion:
1. The graphics card you want is the Sapphire Radeon 850XT. Itīs the only card they offer for a fair price which is also very fast and surprisingly silent. Youīll have to wait and see about compatibility to older games. Apart from that itīs one of the best cards you can buy at the moment.
Most offers are heavily overpriced. The 311$ for the 6600GT are just laughable. The 850XT is way faster for the same price.
2. CPU:
Make sure you buy a Winchester, not a Northwood. Speed is identical but the Winchester runs less hot. Youīll find the details behind the info buttons.
3. The MSI mainboard is fine if you donīt want to use 2 graphics cards. This is called SLI.
4. Get a case with a big power supply and add the 3 fans + fan control package they offer. Always make sure you choose the option which sounds more silent.
5. Choose 2 identical hard disks and have them configured as RAID / striping. This doubles the speed because the data is automatically shared between both disks. Advantage: +90% speed. Disadvantage: if one harddisk dies all data is lost.
6. Buy a windows XP, let them install this whole chaos and collect all the gimmicks.
7. Get the rounded cables. Good for air flow.
8. I would leave out the speaker set they suggest. Getting a 7.1 set with a subwoofer later is of course a good idea, but youīll want to choose carefully.
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:12 pm |
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Bartacus
Il Buono
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
With Aldi or Lidl computers you will have the most noisy ones. Also don't believe X-dANGEr on this one. The latest Nvidia cards are just of the same quality and price as the latest ATI cards. If you go for an n-force motherboard, I would suggest for an Nvidia card, cause Nvidia have build a small advantage for their GC in the nforce systems. And yes, Gorath I heard about that mid-budget card, but I'm talking high-end here.
NVIDIA Geforce 6800 GT 256MB 16X PCI EXPRESS VIDEO CARD is good enough. The difference between this one and the ultra isn't worth the price.
CPU/motherboard: AMD 3500+ on a normal MSI motherboard. The SLI is a bit overrated. Nobody needs it for gaming right now and when you would, you are prob better of buying a new Graphic card.
Powersupply: better get a 400W or higher
Case: it's always more easy to swap in sth that is bigger then sth small.
Win XP professional, no Home Edition. Unless offcourse you only use it for the net and gaming.
HD: SATA offcourse and just know this. 8MB cache is good till 200GB HD. At larger HD, you will have to go for more cache.
RAM: Today it's still OK for 512MB RAM. There isn't any game (not even Gothic which uses a lot of RAM) that would need that mcuh with this kind of PC. But it's better to look a bit in the future and to have more then todays standards. -> 1024MB standard config.
I came up with this : http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/highendsystem/ultra9000.asp?v=d#configurator_top
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:07 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Bartacus
With Aldi or Lidl computers you will have the most noisy ones.
The current Aldi PC is advertized as being optimized for silence. With a 14 days no questions asked money back guarantee itīd better be silent.
But yes, all older Aldi PCs were quite noisy.
quote:
Also don't believe X-dANGEr on this one. The latest Nvidia cards are just of the same quality and price as the latest ATI cards.
I disagree. nVidia may have caught up on speed, but the graphics card manufacturers have serious problems to deliver consistent quality because the chips are running very hot. Especially 6600GT cards are dieing like the flies.
Plus the current nVidia lineup needs incredibly loud cooling solutions -with only few exceptions- and is incompatible to Gothic 2. Two reasons not to buy an nVidia card now.
quote:
And yes, Gorath I heard about that mid-budget card, but I'm talking high-end here.
Which mid-budget card? The Radeon 850XT is absolutely high-end. Unfortunately the site shows me different prices today. Yesterday the 6600GT and the R850XT were both listed for 311$. This is of course an easy choice. If you can get a mid-class BMW for 80.000$ or a Porsche Carrera for the same price you donīt have to think twice.
As it is now I donīt like the graphics card choices at all. nVidia gets disqualified for the reasons mentioned above and they donīt offer an adequate mid-class ATI solution.
quote:
NVIDIA Geforce 6800 GT 256MB 16X PCI EXPRESS VIDEO CARD is good enough. The difference between this one and the ultra isn't worth the price.
Letīs say 'fast enough' instead of 'good enough'. I agree that the Ultra is a waste of money.
quote:
CPU/motherboard: AMD 3500+ on a normal MSI motherboard. The SLI is a bit overrated. Nobody needs it for gaming right now and when you would, you are prob better of buying a new Graphic card.
Agreed except for the CPU. Itīs only a Newcastle, not a Winchester. Less heat -> quieter PC.
quote:
Powersupply: better get a 400W or higher
Agreed.
quote:
Case: it's always more easy to swap in sth that is bigger then sth small.
Obviously.
quote:
Win XP professional, no Home Edition. Unless offcourse you only use it for the net and gaming.
Yes, I have no idea why, but 'Professional' sounds more competent.
quote:
RAM: Today it's still OK for 512MB RAM. There isn't any game (not even Gothic which uses a lot of RAM) that would need that mcuh with this kind of PC. But it's better to look a bit in the future and to have more then todays standards. -> 1024MB standard config.
I disagree. Not less than 1GB in such a PC. Everquest 2 is the first game which likes more than 1 GB. Others will follow in a year or 2. Now 1 GB is the right choice.
quote:
I came up with this : http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/highendsystem/ultra9000.asp?v=d#configurator_top
Itīs empty for me.
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:37 am |
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