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Kabduhl
City Guard
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 127
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...ummmm if your character can grow from a small child to an old man in this game and the main plot only takes 20 hours to complete time must pass pretty damn quickly in the game ... or they just warp you to various stages of your pc's life (ie you might play a few 'levels' as a kid then see aq cutscene and be a grown man etc.) ...
...seriously though, 20 hours of main storyline is ok for an expansion pack but for a full game???
needless to say i'm slightly sceptical about all claims made by all developers about any of their buggy little toys they release to us .......... |
Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:01 pm |
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NeverDark
Village Leader
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 91
Location: Virtual Reality aka Life |
Instead of useless features such as having your character getting older, and having cut grass grow back, I'd prefer a good storyline, bugless coding, convenient interface, and 50-60 hours of a solid gameplay.
Ahh, gotta go buy BGII again  |
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Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:56 pm |
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ShadowWolfe
Noble Knight
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 205
Location: In the northern mountains of the western continent. |
its a neat concept ... i think they need to make it a hella lot longer and a little less linear ... but then again look what molyneux or whatever his name is did with black white ...made it in to basically just a tech show
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Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:55 pm |
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Kabduhl
City Guard
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 127
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that's cause he's an egotistical d**khead and people need to stop paying him to make games ... his games are boring, buggy, and self indulgent to the point of severely detracting from gameplay (ie. they do stuff to try and impress other develeopers with their new tech coolness but they forget that games are about gameplay) ..... molyneux is dreaming if he thinks he can make the best rpg ever ..... |
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Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:38 am |
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Wastelander
Village Dweller
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 7
Location: Usually in front of the computer |
Little known game called Darkstone had aging though not in this sort of depth... And what is this junk about emotions? If my character starts getting happy or sad as a result of my actions I am going to be ticked off. I don't think this emotion stuff is new either it has been a long while since anyone has really re-reviewed the fallout (Nostalgic moment: I remember the first time Ian had an SMG... I made sure it never happened again) games but I am pretty sure the reactions to your actions such as friendship, happiness, courteosness, anger, hatred, and homicidal rage/pant-crapping terror are the only emotions a game needs to remain both interesting and FUN without becoming just some big dumb parade of frontier technological advancement in the gaming industry that won't see full use until 2009. But since it is on a console I highly doubt I will even have the option of going around killing people at will.
Another thing on emotions If I want a ruthless homicidal maniac I don't need him getting all emotional over beating old people to death with a club, their walker, their severed arm, or any other blunt instrument. I want him to be trully maniacal and laugh about it or mercilessly insane in that he simply "turns off" any emotional response. I hope they do not pause me in the middle of a criminal activity for my character to go over some sort of dumb sobbing hissy fit over the morality of his actions while nearby guards position themselves to brutally ram a 6 foot halberd through my chest. As for people witnessing the event I would expect fear or rage or more likely disgust.
This simple story it boasts sort of stops being simple and instead kinda gets to look dumb when you hear about the dog. Now I will admit that I would be mortified and unreasonably enraged at the death of my dog but I somehow doubt, even if it were murdered when I was 15, that I would pursue it's killers for decades until the day that I died. On the other hand my parents who are missing that have clothed, fed, loved and disciplined me would warrant my endless attention. So why, despite the initial trauma of seeing his dog killed would he set out to avenge its death instead of say... discovering whether or not his parents are alive and how to save them if they are? Maybe I just read the article wrong but that is what I gathered.
That said I hated Black and White, although I did enjoy my deranged malicious cow Daisy - I was good and my cow was utterly (I hope nobody points out that pun) evil.
Yes the concept seems amazing, yes nice pretty flashy graphics, yes everything looks really cartoonish, but there is a distinct chance of precipatating excrement if/when IT hits the fan. |
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Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:28 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
One thing no-one has picked up on, the claim to be the first game where your character ages over time. There have been several which have done this to a greater or lesser extent, the M&M series being one of them.
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Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:39 am |
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Chicknstu
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 15 Jun 2003
Posts: 32
Location: Dundee, Scotland |
I had the great pleasure yesterday of attending a lecture on innovation in computer games, from peter moleneux himself. At the conference, he showed us footage of the game, and told us about the ways it innovates.
He's basically creating a 'world' which 'stuff' can happen. What happens is entirely up to you, and the character will visually develop, so if you use a large weapon in your right arm, then your right arm will beef up (Rather than a bunch of numbers being incremented).
The world also has other heroes. he commented on how 'In normal RPG's, the world could be ending and you seem to be the only one bothered about it. Everyone else carries on putting out the washing or milking the cows' So, there will be other heroes in the world trying to get famous as well as you.
The characters in the world are also a developing thing. as your fame increases, you'll walk through villages to see kids with your haircut and tatoos, and the opposite sex will become more interested with you. Things you just don't see in other RPG's (where your attempts to save mankind are usually only acknowleged by whichever king you're working for)
I think it sounds great, and the Man is a Genius!!!!!
stu |
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Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:12 pm |
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Kabduhl
City Guard
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 127
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the only innovative stuff there is graphical ....
the rest is the kind of stuff that SHOULD be in games ...
a hero should be recognized by NPC's as such (reverse for a villain) ....
it isn't even hard to script ...
differnt varaibles (let's call them IDENTIFIER VARIABLES) for different stages of character development and fame are kept (on the PC - in the code), then all NPC have set reactions and/or divergent reaction routines and conversations trees based on those IDENTIFIER VARIABLES. time consuming and it requires a developer to think much more heavily about how PC actions would affect the world, but this kind of NPC simulation system hardly takes the mind of a genius to create (it takes a development team dedicated to going in-depth into their story their world and their NPC's). You can create memetic ai structures to cover a whole slew of behaviors that are triggered by circumstance or previous interraction with a PC/NPC, even triggered by time of day, what the NPC just did, which types of NPC's are close by, time of the month/year (infinite possibility here really).
when it comes down to it we are dealing with zeros and ones, yes and no statements to simulate complex behavior ... i think tools creation for games can be a deciding factor in the quality of the game ... the game building tools creation aspect of game design can make all the difference ... good tools can make bad devs look good and vice versa ... with a well thought out scripting engine all manner of activities are easy to implement ...
memetic ai structures can create an illusion of amazing complexity using basically a switch statement ...
a big problem that i sense in many games is poor tool development which causes the designers to have to work harder to make their creation coupled with a lack of time and dedication to the small details ...
and i have to stand by my original point of view that anyone who says they are going to make the best rpg to date is an egotistical d**khead ... just make the damn game already and piss off with the hype ... i'm tired tired tired of game devs hyping their games ... they almost never deliver ...
now fable may very well end up being everything molyneux says it will be, but i won't be convinced or even optimistic until i see it ... |
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Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:46 am |
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Chicknstu
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 15 Jun 2003
Posts: 32
Location: Dundee, Scotland |
Peter Moleneux does have a tendancy to overdo it with the hype a bit. Let's just hope the game is successful, or it'll be a race for which magazine is first to use the title in a clever and ironic way, and dismiss all the hype as 'fables'  ithankyou!
stu |
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Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:26 pm |
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ShadowWolfe
Noble Knight
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 205
Location: In the northern mountains of the western continent. |
ah as i said before just take a look at black & white ... it was supposed to change rts's forever with real life AI and blah blah blah ... now its collecting dust on my shelf ... anyone who super hypes a game is just asking for disaster ... oh well best of luck peter!  (snicker)
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NIL MORTIFI, SINE LUCRE
Member of Dragon Lord
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.: Amd XP 2700+
.: Geforce FX 5900 Ultra
.: 1024mb DDr pc2700
.: 120GB UDMA 7200 RPM 2MB WD
.: 2 LG LCD Screens @ 19" Viewing |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:00 am |
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pauk
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 38
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quote:
Originally posted by corwin
One thing no-one has picked up on, the claim to be the first game where your character ages over time. There have been several which have done this to a greater or lesser extent, the M&M series being one of them.
M&M III already had this feature well implemented 10 years ago. I played it 2 months, and my characters got so old that they started fainting and dying becouse of old age. (didn't finish the game) |
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Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:44 am |
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