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Priest4hire
Head Merchant
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 52
Location: Slocan, BC |
I agree and yet I don't this problem is limited to Oblivion and I'm not sure there's a real solution. If you follow the logic of the story through then the main mission shouldn't be optional. Failure to carry it out should result in an invasion from Oblivion, no? Thus either the game should force the main mission or it should basically punish people who ignore it by forcing them to start again. I can imagine how that would have gone over.
Even NPC reaction is a very difficult problem. The game already has an enormous amount of content without having to create a pre and post 'main story' setting. Quests offer a similar problem and truthfully I can't of an RPG that has had the kind of size and dynamic world state that would be required. So Oblivion just goes the middle road by making the story seem urgent while having a world that more or less stays the same whether you do the main quest or not.
But was Morrowind any much different? Gee, there are bad guys doing stuff and plagues savaging the land only nothing is actually changing and the bad guy is more than content to wait until you've finished all those guild quests. The main difference is the part where your contact basically tells you to bugger off for a while. It's hard to imagine a less dramatic scenario. But even in other RPGs I couldn't count the times I've had some urgent quest - only hours or minutes to spare - and yet spent some time grinding levels and sleeping at the inn. Gone are the days of Magic Candle and having hard time limits.
The short is I think Oblivion was simply in a no win position here. Have another distant and anticlimactic storyline with villains that don't actually do anything so as to avoid imposing anything on the player? Force time limits or other hard limitations? Make the world smaller so as to free up resources for making the world more dynamic and cut off a lot of content until after the main quest line is done? I always thought it would be interesting to have an RPG where the villains actively hunt you down. Where instead of always being the one to act you are forced to often react. But I don't blame Bethesda for taking the safe and inclusive approach here.
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Watch your back. Shoot straight. Conserve ammo. And never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon.
Grammaton Dragon
-==(UDIC)==- |
Tue May 02, 2006 2:04 am |
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JDR13
Magister of the Light
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 376
Location: Michigan, United States |
I think it's better that way. In games where there is a time limit or an npc telling you to "act quickly", I feel rushed and find that I'm not enjoying the game as much. I don't like being penalized for not completing a game in a certain amount of time.
A perfect example is the Resident Evil series of games. I love that series, in fact, I purchased a Nintendo Gamecube just so I could have the entire Resident Evil collection. My only gripe, as anyone else here who has played them already knows, is that you are given a grade, A-F, upon completion of the game. There are several statistics that determine your final grade, but the one that has the most impact is how long you took to finish the game. I always hated this fact because it makes me feel rushed when I'm playing those games and thus detracts somewhat from my enjoyment. I still greatly enjoy the Resident Evil games, but I can't help feeling that I would like them even more if they didn't use a grading system where time is a factor.
CRPG's in particular are meant to be savored. If I want to explore every single town and dungeon on the map, then I should be able to do so without being penalized. I have no problem with a few individual quest having time limits as long as it's reasonable, but I don't ever want to feel as if I'm being rushed through a game.
*UPDATE*
Damn! Speak of the Devil! I just opened my copy of Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, and guess what! It uses a $%@# timing system to grade you at the end of the game! Damn you Bethesda! |
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Tue May 02, 2006 3:11 am |
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abbaon
Head Merchant
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 64
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My review: Pretty, shallow fluff. Surprise.
My specific complaint: I wish the game had forced me to develop a wider tactical repertoire. Depending on whether your enemy blocked or used magic, you could get through every fight with one of three patterns: "step in, slash, step out", "block, slash slash", and "slash slash slash slash slash". I would've liked to see enemies whose reach and power invalidated all of those tactics, forcing me to get in close and roll under their swings, or hang back and stuff them with arrows, or use magic to trip and trap them. I'd have liked to see opponents who used those tactics better than I did. Given that combat accounts for most of the "game" moments, of the obstacle-overcoming you have to do, I'd like Bethesda to do more with it.
Still, I'd rate it higher than Morrowind in every respect. I don't miss anything we've lost. |
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Tue May 02, 2006 7:25 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
quote:
Originally posted by JDR13
Damn! Speak of the Devil! I just opened my copy of Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, and guess what! It uses a $%@# timing system to grade you at the end of the game! Damn you Bethesda!
wow, some "instant karma" there 
did you laugh at someone with a flat tire on the freeway or something? 
Anyway, I like the 4 Fat Chicks, their reviews have some good character to them and we tend to agree often. As I spend more time with Oblivion, it's become another game just like any other, that I can take or leave.
Is it still something special? Well, yes and no. At one time I feel it's a great game that I like to spend hours doing whatever I want, in another respect, I feel that I spent a great deal of that wonder factor in Morrowind. Yes, I know, I loved Morrowind okay.
I still enjoy playing it, but have far too many games to sit around playing one every day, that's partly why I gave up MMORPGs
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Wed May 03, 2006 2:48 am |
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Shevchyk
Guest
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Following the thread...I came to a thought, one which in my mind, seems worthy of further contemplation:
What is the principle goal of an RPG? Is it to tell an engaging and emotionally involving story? Or is it meant to be a stat-grinder? How historically recent is the exploration factor in an RPG? Is this perhaps something we ought to consider as possibly being detrimental to the story and character development?
It may be time to look at System Shock II and PST again, and think about the story-line is outlined vis-a-vis playing styles... |
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Thu May 04, 2006 2:43 am |
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Shevchyk
Village Dweller
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 1
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Argh. My grammar and I, oh how we get on.
It may be time to look at System Shock II and PST again, and think about how the story-line is outlined with consideration to playing styles... |
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Thu May 04, 2006 2:49 am |
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