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hwfanatic
Average Fanatic
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 2850
Location: Belgrade, Serbia |
I've bough myself SoU, and for the first time I'm actually playing a character that has something to do with magic - a bard/arcane archer. What I don't grasp is how does countering spells work, exactly... For starters, I have my spellcraft maxed out, and I also managed to counter several spells so far, but I can't praise I know how I have done that.  I would appreciate if someone could present me with exact procedure. |
Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:30 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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You have to activate a mode from the casting menu called "counterspell".
Step 2: You have to make a spellcraft check to identify the spell as it's being cast
Step 3: If you have that spell or its counterspell memorized (some spells have specific counterspells listed on a line called 'additional counterspells' in their spell description) then you automatically counter the spell (if you have initiative)
Step 4: Otherwise you'll try and throw dispel magic as a counterspell and hope for the best. This pretty much never works.
You can only counter one spell a round/every six seconds... you can take no other actions while countering spells.
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Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:36 pm |
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hwfanatic
Average Fanatic
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 2850
Location: Belgrade, Serbia |
Okay... But can I "combine" counterspell mode with attack mode? If I am to counter anything at all, I have to engage the mode before the foe caster starts casting, after that it's simply too late. But, being in that mode makes my character just stand and wait for spells, he doesn't attack. I find this rather frustrating... |
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Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:03 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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It's why it's one of the least excercised options in 3rd edition.
Forget that, it's the least. I've never seen a player counter a spell instead of simply taking the effect to counter with their OWN devastating spell.
More importantly, I've never seen a caster win initiative and then say "Ok, wait to see what he does and ready to counter" instead of going "I ready my action to cast Maximize flame strike if I see him casting a spell ... 90 damage. Did he 1) Live 2) Make his fortitude save vs death (DC 15) for taking more than 50 damage in an attack and 3) Make his concentration check DC 105 + spell level that he's casting?"
A superior option in every single way to countering a spell.
Improved Counterspell gives Sorcerers a CHANCE of countering spells, as it allows them to counter with a spell of the same school instead of the same name.
Reactive Counterspell is actually useful, as it lets you counter a spell even if you haven't acted yet in the round. Basically, it lets you fling your hands up if the enemy wins initiative and scream "NO!!!" and counter their fireball. Of course, it takes your action ... but at least you're alive.
Neither Improved Counterspell or Reactive Counterspell are in the game, though, so it remains a Very Poor tactic.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:46 pm |
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hwfanatic
Average Fanatic
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 2850
Location: Belgrade, Serbia |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
Neither Improved Counterspell or Reactive Counterspell are in the game, though, so it remains a Very Poor tactic.
So I see... It's all new to me, really, and it looked like it could be useful, or used for fun, if nothing else. |
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Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:23 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Counterspell could actually be a moderately useful tactic for a Bard in a party, as they have very limited offensive spells. Something to consider since they are mainly used in support roles in MP games.
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If God said it, then that settles it!
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Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:44 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by corwin
Counterspell could actually be a moderately useful tactic for a Bard in a party, as they have very limited offensive spells. Something to consider since they are mainly used in support roles in MP games.
Especially in TOEE where you can command a character to "Ready Counter Spell" ... ie target a spell caster and try to counter any spells the bad guy might try and throw.
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=Just plain clueless= |
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Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:31 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Exactly the reason it's not a good tactic in NWN.
TOEE it's turn based and so it's actually moderately useful if your bard knows Dispel Magic... he can give it a shot.
But then, the most damage I took from magic was something like 30 in all of TOEE...
It's a poor tactic in NWN, which is what the forum is dedicated to.
Readying an action and using your readied action to hammer them with a ludicrous amount of damage thus making their concentration check impossible to achieve (how does one get 115 on a d20 + 30 if you're tanked out for concentration, anyways?) is the best pen and paper tactic.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:25 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
... It's a poor tactic in NWN, which is what the forum is dedicated to.
Oops! This is how cross topic baning started ... it is very easy to forget which forum a discussion is taking place in. Sorry 'bout that!
quote:
Readying an action and using your readied action to hammer them with a ludicrous amount of damage thus making their concentration check impossible to achieve (how does one get 115 on a d20 + 30 if you're tanked out for concentration, anyways?) is the best pen and paper tactic.
That made good sense the first time you mentioned it ... but with a bard I don't believe you get those killer spells ... but then I've never played one! I keep telling myself my next character will be a Soc or Wiz, but somehow I just keep falling back on Paladins and Rangers and Fighters and Barbarians. Oh well!
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Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:32 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Heh. 3.5 ... level 6 bard spell. Great Shout. 1d6 sonic damage per caster level, also deafens opponents for a few rounds (save for half rounds). Deafness causes a 30% arcane spell failure.
They open their mouth to blast you, you open yours and show them how it's done.
I prefer fighters as well... fighters counterspells work fairly often as well. It's called a power attack with a two handed weapon as soon as they wiggle a finger.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:53 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
I've been playing a Bard in Dte's Wed. night campaign and find them frustratingly underpowered. OK as a support class for a few buffs, heals and bard song, but a fairly ineffective archer and an even worse melee character. Still fairly low level, but I'd never use one in a SP campaign.
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:25 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Bards are not strong at anything. They are also not weak at anything. They are the Jack of all trades, master of none.
As said, they are support characters. Without a party to support they are... well... in for trouble.
However, if you want to have some high level fun with a bard base... go bard/dragon disciple/weaponmaster. Splat.
Or bard/arcane archer/weapon master.
Bards are good at several things that are not in the computer game, though. They have the ability to define truth to any who hear them relatively early in their career. A bard can crush an empire with a few well chosen words, raise a king or remove one... he may attract the attention of the gods themselves who will be his patrons if he's skilled enough. If he's epic he can even move constructs and undead to tears.
In a computer game they are weak. In the hands of an experienced player in a tabletop game they can be more powerful than the greatest archwizard could even dream of aspiring to.
An evil bard is a horrible, horrible thing... raising rebellion in good cities, framing noble kings with horrific acts, and enthralling the entire populace of a city to follow him to a cliffs edge and leap off, renouncing their gods in favor of the one true god... the bard. They are that dangerous.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:41 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I want to be an evil bard! Mwahaha! *ahem* 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:30 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Well then, let's hear a song, Ms. Spears! 
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=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:34 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Starts playing a lovely song that turns into a horrible racket that bursts dteowner's ear drums.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:46 pm |
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