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| What's the purposse of our life |
| To raise a family or to have money |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
| To enjoy while I steel can before I die |
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22% |
[ 4 ] |
| Other write here. |
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61% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
DA UNDERTAKER
souls will cry
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 824
Location: Athens, Greece |
quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
Two painfully obvious facts.
1. We are here.
2. Someone or something put us here.
i think that there is a 3rd one in the group: "We understand that we are here"
figure the rest out yourself... |
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:50 pm |
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Kiwi Boy
High Emperor
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1086
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
Adhereing to a religion makes your life better.
What aspect of life? What do you think of adultery?
quote:
Originally posted by DA UNDERTAKER
i think that there is a 3rd one in the group: "We understand that we are here"
What if we are really in someone's matrix?
(Do not dismiss the matrix "theory" entirely. The key that makes the matrix work is that its residents aren't even aware of its presence.) |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:52 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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There's no need to wonder if there is a god. There is or there isn't. If there is then this being understands the questions you have regarding faith and will forgive you your doubts if there is an afterlife. If there isn't then there isn't.
Is religion the greatest influence on your personal development? Perhaps. If being forced to go to Sunday school hadn't turned me off religion as a child, if learning of the Crusades didn't horrify me as a teenager, and if sex scandals within the church didn't sicken me as an adult ... would I be different?
Of course. I'd also be different, perhaps more so, if my parents had been rich instead of poor. If I'd taken more interest in sports than computer games. If <insert what could have been> instead of <insert what is here>... ad nauseum.
Until you gain the ability to be able to go back in time and watch alternate histories unfold based on had you made different decisions or been brought up with different events shaping your life there's no way to claim that religion is the greatest influence.
People kill over it... but people kill over anything. People argue over it ... but people argue over everything. What makes it any different or special?
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:15 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
@Xen - You left out the inquistion, the indescriminate slaughter of the Incas and Aztecs, burning witches, the wars of reformation that completely devestated what later became Germany ... and that is just Christianity.
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:35 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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All of which had motives ulterior to religion itself. I was trying not to muddle the waters. I don't believe the church is evil as in institution. In fact, I believe the Pope to be a good and honest man ... and the vast majority of God's servants to be noble and righteous people.
I do think it's shortsighted and stifling ... but that's mainly because they're holding back research that could end my personal pain. I'm human... I hold grudges. That's another topic entirely, though.
Factions use religion to manipulate people... again, this makes it no different than anything else.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:43 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
I want to have as little to do with organized religion as possible. As soon as someone thinks they have a better connection with 'god' = 'ultimate authority figure' than you do the temptation to use that position to dictate what you believe to meet their own personal adgenda becomes almost overwhelming. One can only hope that the 'preacher' either: a. resists the temptation, or b. has a benign agenda or c. that agenda coincides with your own.
Personally I am not willing to take that risk, and therefore have forsaken all organized religions ... at least at this stage of my life. Later on I may have need for a community that I can not find amongst my peers and turn to a religion to supply that community, but I do not see that day coming in the near future.
This does not mean I don't see the value that such organizations have, or the good they can do. No. I just happen to be very zealous about who I let program my thinking ... thusly no TV in my house - too much subliminal programming going on for me.
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:26 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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quote:
Two quotes by Kiwi Boy
1. What aspect of life? What do you think of adultery?
2. What if we are really in someone's matrix?
My responses
1a. All aspects of your family and social life. Often this has positive effects on you economic life as well but that is a more indirect by-product.
1b. Adultery is wrong and, if left unchecked, could destroy a society from the ground up. My opinion on adultery is no different than my thoughts on Sexually Deviant Marriages.
2. We are in someone's matrix, God's matrix.  (I just couldn't pass that one up.)
@Everyone
I want to point out that adhereing to religion is not the same that as serving in a church. Adhereing to a religion means living your life according to the ideals of that religion as best you can. If you live this way, you can tell when the church you attend is doing things they should not. You can tell when you religion is being hijacked to achieve goals that are not in line with its ideals. You are not blindly following a minister or a church body, you are subscribing to ideals.
A couple of people said that they were turned off by Christianity. Which one of the Christian ideals is offensive? Which one of the 10 commandments turns people off? What did Jesus say that was such a bad idea? Was it "love thy neighbor as thyself?" Was it "if thy brother repents then thou shalt forgive him?" or Was it simply his claim to be the Son of God?
@Xen
A person can look over his own life and tell what was the greatest influence on it. I suspect, but only God and each person know, that people who went to church as children, but rejected Christianity, had another major influence or event in their lives that pushed or pulled them away.
quote:
People kill over it... but people kill over anything. People argue over it ... but people argue over everything. What makes it any different or special?
Not really. (the killing part, people do argue over anything) There are a few isolated cases of people killing over toilet tissue, forks, etc. But, for the most part sane adults kill over one of two things.
1. Some form of wealth.
2. Some form of sex. - you slept with his wife; her husband cheated; if you won't be with me you won't be with anyone; I worked for this house you can't let someone else live in it, etc.
Most, if not all, of the so-called religious wars, are not really over religion. (But I think you said that)
_________________
Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:16 pm |
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Graham 2
High Emperor
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 795
Location: Preston/England |
[quote="Darrius Cole]Most, if not all, of the so-called religious wars, are not really over religion. (But I think you said that)[/quote]
There not about religion, they are just using religion as an excuse to kill.
_________________
R.I.P "Dimebag" Darrell Lance Abbott
1966 - 2004 |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:46 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
I probably think that religion has had a greater positive effect than its perceived negative effect.
I also subscribe to most of what the Church says about morals and whatnot... there is a certain wisdom about them: for example, it is impossible to assert that promiscuity leading towards single parent homes is good for members directly involved or for society itself.
However, I would be vastly suspicious of a Church which saps all forms of liberty from its members, master Lintra, which is why I consider some positions which appear at first to be contradictory to be quite enlightened. Without choice, there is no such thing as morality. If the Church (I mean any religion, by the way) were to have ultimate authority to ban all of evil practise X, while forcing its members to perform good deed Y, there's no alignment point change when you do those deeds, since you're under duress.
Therefore, I am open to having my State become socially left leaning - to a point, which is where my own choices are denied credit or no longer respected in my own arena - given that if the choice to allow something is made by the government, there is no secular force that prevents one from choosing that path, regardless of how much it may be condemned by a religion: thusly, condemnation comes on the personal level, for them and them alone. Further, if that path is open to a follower of a religion (which dictates against such a path) who then chooses not to walk down this slippery slope, they would be instantally placed on a moral high ground by their religion. For the sake of seeking a position which, in theory, compromises between both the left and the right, the left - choice - must be followed.
Recognizing this powerful concept, I choose - nay, am impelled by conscience - to discredit any argument that suggests that curtailing of certain civic freedoms in order to preserve the morality of a State; and in doing so, draw upon the concept of morality itself and its necessary requisite, liberty, locked in their theoretical-intellectual worlds in order to refute this claim, in a brilliant display of fighting fire with fire.
Further, I tirelessly must explain this concept to the conservative minded members of my own religion, who fail to recognize the concept of the paragraph one above. 
quote:
There not about religion, they are just using religion as an excuse to kill.
Yeah. That sentence, however, can be applied to nearly any concept. ie. Liberty, Freedom, Oil. 
_________________
Make good choices. |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:17 pm |
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tolgerias
High Emperor
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 770
Location: The Netherlands |
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
@Xen - You left out the inquistion, the indescriminate slaughter of the Incas and Aztecs, burning witches, the wars of reformation that completely devestated what later became Germany ... and that is just Christianity.
you really should try to see the difference between politics and religion, i mean do you really think the Spanish slaughtered those people because of their religion? I am sure it had more to do with gold, silver and other capitalistic motives. And the inquisition was very helpful for removing political opponents....
As for your witches, there is a huge difference between superstition (witches werewolves vampires) and religion. In fact this superstition is a lack of religion and not a result of it.
So if you try to see those things in perspective your prejudice towards religions might dissapear.
_________________
If you can't debate without namecalling then don't bother visiting us. -Myrthos |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:38 pm |
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DA UNDERTAKER
souls will cry
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 824
Location: Athens, Greece |
quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
Most, if not all, of the so-called religious wars, are not really over religion. (But I think you said that)
quote:
Originally posted by Graham 2
There not about religion, they are just using religion as an excuse to kill.
none of the religions support wars or even consider ideas like "dying for the cause" or "killing for God" or "holy wars" or anything else. any similar things you may have read is not written in the bible or corran or whatever. |
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:58 pm |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
quote:
Originally posted by Kiwi Boy
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
Sure religion can play an important role in your life. So can the country you grow up in. So can your choice of footwear. Anything can if you let it.
Total surrender is one of the basic cost for religion. Any one who does not give up everything s/he has cannot be a disciple of God.
I would not characterize it as total surrender. Surrender is passive. A pursuit of religion is active. It is a sacrifice of the ego--the "me first"--which blocks unification with the divine. But sacrifice is not only found in religion, there is some degree of sacrifice found in anything you pursue. And often the more important or valuable your goal, the more you must sacrifice to achieve it. In religion, it happens that the ultimate goal--unity with God or whatever other divinity--is also the most costly. You have to give up or exclude some things in order to gain others. It's the same if you're studying in college or university, taking jobs, finding a life-long partner (if you want to), etc, IMO.
_________________
Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:57 am |
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titus
Survivor of Hell
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 778
Location: Standing at the Hell mouth |
I totally don't belive in the bibical god why not? for evry belief he is a different guy, but read every bible of every beliefandinvestigate it good enough and you will find out that they are all wurshipping the same guy while they wuld kll to proove their god is the rht and only one.
The purpose of life? There isn't you live and you die. afterlife? nope your dead and hat is the end for that creature or would you say that the dinosaurs still exist but in an othe laced called heaven? or maybe the reincarnated into humans Giants and angels? ha don't make me laugh just explanations for the unknown and what they don't understand.
like someone ever stated: belief is the opium of the people or was it for the people don't remember exactly but Ceasar did just the same wih his bread and games as a total instution as the church does with his belief
MMM Ceasar was the upper lord in a kidn of belief and he ruled about life and death, no wait that can't be. Would he be the reincarnation of Christ or God himself
and belief important role of your life? bullshit only if you let it to. I have been raised catholic but I stopped follwing those lessons on school and follewed the other thing(totally not involved in beliefs  don't know how it is called)
an know belief doesn't play a a single influence on me anymore
I am not a christian or satanist or anything I am just someone who only believes in himself. If you want somethign to happen or need strength or what ever don't look upon the sky or where ever you want your belief to locte itself, look or he power within cause that is allyou can count on: yourself.
So we are all or own gods 
edit: oh yeah for menkind is totally not a superior being but an inferior being
_________________
Want to become a vampire? a warrior in the battle between vampires and werewolves?
http://monstersgame.nl/?ac=vid&vid=12007139 |
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:38 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
....
Most, if not all, of the so-called religious wars, are not really over religion. (But I think you said that)
This is not really true. Public support is whipped up using religion as a cause ... the issues on the minds of the leaders might be different, but with out the excuse of religion the war could not be started nor sustained. For example: the crusades launched first by Islam and later by the Christians.
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:23 pm |
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titus
Survivor of Hell
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 778
Location: Standing at the Hell mouth |
yeah you are wright lintra, even bush uses this technique but not in the name of this or that god but in the name of his "war against terror"(actually war of terror)
_________________
Want to become a vampire? a warrior in the battle between vampires and werewolves?
http://monstersgame.nl/?ac=vid&vid=12007139 |
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:28 pm |
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