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cecirdr
Guest
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| What (for you) makes a good RPG? |
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Ok...here's what works for me:
My preference is for turn based games, heavy on story and intrigue, and *NO* online play. FWIW, my all time favorite RPG is Planescape:Torment even though I'm not a fan of the Infinity engine.
I'm not a person that enjoys hack and slash just willy nilly, and I don't get into all the minutiae of the "perfect" combat strategy. When I build characters via training and experience, I don't want my expertise with a controller to have any bearing on battle outcome. I'm role playing for goodness sake! My "real life" capabilities in handling a mouse, keyboard, or controller shouldn't have anything to do with battle outcome.
I'd prefer story paths that allow me to fight if I want to, but allow for progression if I chose to not fight at all....lots of different endings might be required for this, I know. I prefer a classless RPG in which my character develops as I play it.
I'd love a game where you didn't feel compelled to have to save constantly because there was a "right" way to get through a section. How about a game where there's no "right" way...just different ways. You might get killed sometimes so there would be a need for saves, but not due to feeling like you did something wrong. Planescape:Torment was very much like this. There are lots of ways to play it ...none of them "right".
Be a theif, kill NPCs with abandon, be a hero, be a manipulative whimp, a gentle healer, a reclusive mage....create a game where you really can be *anything* and still reach an ending/completion. Do it with a graphics style that doesn't require an uber computer and ultimate graphics card, plus have a combat style for those who want combat where it can be either real-time or turn based.
Oooo, what about licensing to design a game around a story like Metropolis? (silent movie by Fritz Lang recently remade as a comic and anime)
Don't want much do I?  |
Tue May 14, 2002 7:22 pm |
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Novice
Guest
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Realtime
non-linear
Good story line
Lots of Weapons
Lots of Choices
Endless possibilities |
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Tue May 14, 2002 7:38 pm |
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TheLonePaladin
Mighty Warrior
Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 1808
Location: San Francisco, CA |
millions of possiblities,
big swords,
loooaaads of npcs,
the option of having party members aka monster difficult increases/decreases with your party size.
and stuff like that there.
_________________
=Follower of Righteousness=
"Though the gates that stand between the mortal world and the immortal Realm of Chaos are now closed to me, still I would rather die having glimpsed eternity than never to have stirred the cold furrow of mortal life.
I embrace death without regret as I embraced life without fear." |
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Tue May 14, 2002 10:26 pm |
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Moonslash
Celestial Guardian
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 1378
Location: California, USA |
possibility to create your own weapons
realistic conversations
NPC's impression on you changes over time
special skills
crystal-like graphics
fighting abilities change with emotion
_________________
=Farseer=
Things are neither completely bright nor dark.
Do you go right? Or do you go left? A simple decision, yes? No ambiguities. Only the dream of the path not taken! And so one might stand in this place and contemplate for a long while. What will I miss if I go left? What will I lose if I go right? And in my indecision, have I chosen a worse fate? |
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Tue May 14, 2002 10:38 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
1) agree with the "non-twitch" combat big time
2) compelling story
3) lots of character growth (maxing at lvl 7 in BG1 was stifling, give me the M&M or Wiz8 system any day)
4) "design" your party up front- no recruiting your party as you go
5) lots of dungeons to clear out/quests to do
6) a good automap (now there's a pipe dream)
7) easy inventory management
Don't know that any game I've played so far has put it all together, but MM7 and Wiz8 probably came the closest for me.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Tue May 14, 2002 11:59 pm |
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cecirdr
Head Merchant
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Newport, OR USA |
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
1) agree with the "non-twitch" combat big time
2) compelling story
3) lots of character growth (maxing at lvl 7 in BG1 was stifling, give me the M&M or Wiz8 system any day)
4) "design" your party up front- no recruiting your party as you go
5) lots of dungeons to clear out/quests to do
6) a good automap (now there's a pipe dream)
7) easy inventory management
Don't know that any game I've played so far has put it all together, but MM7 and Wiz8 probably came the closest for me.
Amen to that!
Earlier today I was trying to respond to a thread on Sierra's site where it appeared the development team wanted to know what people were looking for in a video game. Well, I couldn't tell 'em what I liked because their registration system wouldn't allow me to use my free email account on yahoo to register...they only wanted a "real" address. So, upon further reflection I realized how much I really wanted to answer their question, but narrow it down to my main gaming love....RPGs. So...I posted the question here instead of answering there.
I'm curious as to whether new games are reflecting what people really want or are they (developers) creating what they want us to like and (like insidious advertising) convincing us that certain characteristics "make a good game?"
I for one am not into real time combat, nor gobs of fighting. But...is that what the fans of the genre really want? I figure most everyone wants a great story, but according to the latest games, apparently most everyone also wants almost non-stop killing. If that's the case, I'll bow to the majority rule, but I just hope developers will throw a bone every so often to folks like me and allow for turn based combat or less combat as options. FWIW, I do find adventure style gaming to be (in theory) appealing, but often it's too slow and isolated feeling. The Myst series got deadly dull to me.
Anyway, right now the game that appears to fit closest to my likes is Planescape, but I just started Wizardry 8...so ya never know. I also just bought an adventure game called "The Longest Journey" since I've heard so many raves about it. That should keep me plenty busy until Neverwinter Nights comes out. 
Ceci |
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Wed May 15, 2002 12:56 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Seems like most RPGers like a good ol' hack-n-slash. They want a good story to drive them from battle to battle, but a big part of it is the battle itself.
If you're looking for a non-combat type RPG, you're gonna have to dig pretty deep. One that you might try (and certainly wouldn't think of at first glance) is Deus Ex. It's an FPS, but allows you to play a largely sneaky role. Experience is based on achieving objectives- no XP for killing. It might be a little twitchy for you, though. Another game that might do the trick is Thief. I've never played it, but it seems that game pretty well forces you to avoid combat. It might be a clickfest too, but someone else would have to give you info on that one.
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=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Wed May 15, 2002 1:49 am |
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Yog Sothoth
The All in One
Joined: 01 May 2002
Posts: 1086
Location: Between Space and Time |
quote:
Originally posted by cecirdr
Amen to that!
I'm curious as to whether new games are reflecting what people really want or are they (developers) creating what they want us to like and (like insidious advertising) convincing us that certain characteristics "make a good game?"
It's the same thing you view in 2 different angle... the developers make a game starting from what they want to do and puting in what they think will be apriciated by the gamers. The gamers want a game and tell the developers what they want and then buy the game that, in most of the cases, not perfectly matches his/her requires...
quote:
Originally posted by cecirdr
I for one am not into real time combat, nor gobs of fighting. But...is that what the fans of the genre really want? I figure most everyone wants a great story, but according to the latest games, apparently most everyone also wants almost non-stop killing. If that's the case, I'll bow to the majority rule, but I just hope developers will throw a bone every so often to folks like me and allow for turn based combat or less combat as options. FWIW, I do find adventure style gaming to be (in theory) appealing, but often it's too slow and isolated feeling. The Myst series got deadly dull to me.
You have to distinguish... if you are talking of RPG or adventures
In adventures i think the 99% are non-violent and no-fighting. All the LucasArts (Monkey 1&2&3, Zak...), the Broken Sword series, Simon the sorcerer1&2 and so on... and the Myst serie is an adventure/riddle resolving, so no fight, no battle. 
In RPG, the 99% are battle oriented... also because the games are based on the AD&D system... Planescape: Torment is a very good exception! however it's seems to be alone... 
quote:
Originally posted by cecirdr
Anyway, right now the game that appears to fit closest to my likes is Planescape, but I just started Wizardry 8...so ya never know. I also just bought an adventure game called "The Longest Journey" since I've heard so many raves about it. That should keep me plenty busy until Neverwinter Nights comes out.
Ceci
Like dteowner said, try DeusEx without killing anyone or Thief 1&2 (where you MUST not kill anyone), they are great!
BTW: Welcome to the board! 
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Wed May 15, 2002 8:34 am |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
It should be a good story line, alot of possibilities not to linier but not to non-linier either, many weapons.
Then the most of the RPGs (what I have seen) is with sword and axes. I would like to try other good and new RPGs where you can have something more different.
Is Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast a RPG?
_________________
There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Wed May 15, 2002 8:53 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
I'd like the following:
Non linear,
Good character development,
Good story,
Believable world,
Many possible sol'ns to a problem (only 50% of them involving out right violence)
Good NPC that react to *all* changes in their environment
Real economy ie one that reacts to player and allows character to do things like buy a house/ship (with a mortgage if banks and loans exist)
A combat system that doesn't require the reflexes of an 16 year old on too much caffine
This is only a short wish list - but I've yet to see even 1/2 of these elements fully implemented in any one game. |
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Wed May 15, 2002 12:30 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
I'd like to see developers not use a rich story as an excuse to turn out a mediocre game. To me, it seems like any RPG marketing that makes huge claims to the the story value ends up being completely boring. You might as well watch television for the kind of brain rot that sets in!
_________________
''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast |
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Wed May 15, 2002 1:37 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Gig
I'd like to see developers not use a rich story as an excuse to turn out a mediocre game. To me, it seems like any RPG marketing that makes huge claims to the the story value ends up being completely boring. You might as well watch television for the kind of brain rot that sets in!
Hear, Hear! |
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Wed May 15, 2002 1:49 pm |
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cecirdr
Head Merchant
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Newport, OR USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
I'd like the following:
Non linear,
Good character development,
Good story,
Believable world,
Many possible sol'ns to a problem (only 50% of them involving out right violence)
Good NPC that react to *all* changes in their environment
Real economy ie one that reacts to player and allows character to do things like buy a house/ship (with a mortgage if banks and loans exist)
A combat system that doesn't require the reflexes of an 16 year old on too much caffine
This is only a short wish list - but I've yet to see even 1/2 of these elements fully implemented in any one game.
I like this...it's what I was trying to say in my original post, you just put it much more succinctly. I for one also feel that there hasn't been a game out yet that even comes close to incorporating all of these elements. Perhaps it'd just take too long in development to be an affordable proposition to create?
I also agree with the other poster that said that many of the RPGs with massive stories tend to bog down and not be worth all the hype generated in press releases.
IMHO it appears that RPGs may bounce between too fast a pace, hack and slash, and therefore dull, to such huge, ponderous plots that they get dull that way too. What's the saying....? Anything in excess isn't a good thing....Hmmm...maybe it was everything in moderation..
FWIW, the ponderous plot problem also plagues adventures and in them there's not even the possibility of battles to enliven the process! For me at least, that makes RPGs more desirable. |
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Wed May 15, 2002 5:32 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
"What (for you) makes a good RPG?"
Years and years and years and years of development time that produces years and years and years and years of enjoyment.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Wed May 15, 2002 5:37 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Cecirdr,
Thanks. Morrowind may actuall fill half or more of these catagories, but my humble system can not run it. From what I have read it sounds very good.
This is, of course, an incentive to be a good little consumer and upgrade ... but I this time I *am* going to do it by saving!  ... So it's unamerican, so what! |
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Wed May 15, 2002 5:38 pm |
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