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Snoekie
Baron of the Court
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 335
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands |
Ofcourse EQ isn't responsible for the kids death. That was his own decision.
It defies all common sense that a game could be responsible for that.
It reminds me a lot the "my son shot himself in the face because he listened to Satanic music" lawsuit many years ago.
They actually sewed the hardrock band Judas Priest for having subliminal satanic messages in their records.
Ofcourse the fact that mommy was an alcoholic, daddy an abusing drug addict and their son smoking pot himself didn't have ANYTHING to do with it...*rolls eyes*
This case sure sounds the same. The real reasons are to be found in his immediate surroundings. Like family, friends or school/work.
Not in a computer game.
All I can say to these people is: Get Real!
[ This Message was edited by: Snoekie on 2002-04-03 10:59 ] |
Wed Apr 03, 2002 4:58 pm |
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Why stop at sueing Sony? Let's see who else can we pin blame on?
How about computer manufacturers. Certainly they contribute to peoples' online addictions. Without computer manufacturers, there would be no computers. Without computers, there can be no on-line addiction.
How about Intel and AMD? They make CPUs for computers. Without CPUs there can be know computers. Yeah, let's sue them too!
How about UPS and Federal Express? They deliver computers. Certainly, if they didn't deliver computers people wouldn't get their computers and hence, no possibility for on-line addiction. Let's sue them.
How about Comp USA and Best Buy? They sell computer to unsuspecting suicidal addicts. Certainly they equate to drug dealers. Let's sue them while we're at it.
I think the power companies have a part in this mess. Clearly, without power for your computer, you could never become an on-line addict. We'll add all power companies to the list.
I think we also need to sue all the players of Everquest. Sadly, this includes myself. But obviously, some of us interacted with this poor man, possibly making EQ even more addicting for him. Certainly, we are to blame.
I think we also need to sue the people who created the internet, as well as those who sustain it. This would include every ISP in existence. With ISPs, there could be no on-line addiction. Yeah, we need to sue the ISPs.
We need to sue the phone companies and cable companies while we're at it. They facilitate our internet connections and are very much a part of the problem. At them to the list of blamees.
I think we should sue the education system. Without the education system, it's quite possible that people would be too stupid to make computers or on-line games. We need to sue the education system. This includes all institutions from grade school to Universities worldwide.
... I'm proud to be an American, but this crap is really an embarrasment. It's sad whenever someone takes their own life. I feel bad for the mother. But this tragedy is just that, a tragedy. Seeking monetary compensation for it makes me frown on this mother.
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 5:54 pm |
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soltys
Magister of the Light
Joined: 12 Jan 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Poland, Warsaw |
It's very difficult question, who and how to blame, but I would rather agree with Rendelius. There're some priorities in life, everyone must face it, whenever one likes it or not. No matter if it's EQ or any other MMO game or anything. If anyone gets dangerously addicted to anything (because of person gets addicted easily or is ill or whatever else) it means he/she needs help/support - there's nothing like: "everyone must have strong will and be superb healthy". And it's the moment where friends and family should be in the place. This mother had been seeing him and his life with EQ for few years and she should have done something when there was time for it. Suing company now is definitely not what she should have done.
It's ok if someone plays 12h/day from time to time, when he/she can afford it (free time, no obligations, etc.). I happen do it myself. But if it goes on for years and almost everyday (no rl friends, no job, no family, nothing...), something is not right.
Since half of the previous year I had been playing Edge of Chaos online - dumb, easy webbrowser game. Despite its simplicity it is very addicitng, even if it's nothing comparable to EQ. Game goes on constantly with a new turn every 3 hours. In most intensive parts we were watching our webbrowsers and pressing "refresh" button every few minutes. Stupid huh ? And it went for weeks. We were getting up in the middle of the night to make your moves, to reapir other ships, to attack enemy ships, etc. But noone has lost his job/family or commited suicide. Things like "Ok, it was fun but I have to leave because of RL reasons. I'll keep in touch / be back in next game maybe" were/are normal. Of course I stopped it as well it - now I play it only occasionally, login for few minutes, do something / chat a little and logout.
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:15 pm |
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quote:
On 2002-04-03 06:46, Joey Nipps wrote:
The question of responsibility is key. Let us look at other "addictive" things. Is (for instance) a manufacturer of tobacco products in any way responsible? If the answer is yes, then Sony is responsible as well because EQ IS designed to be addictive and IS addictive. Please don't allow yourselves to simply apply the platitude that "EVERYTHING" can be addictive - this is simply not true - drinking water for instance is NOT addictive in any way. Some things certainly inherently elicit a higher degree of "addiction" - but that is not the point. IF a manufacturer should be held at least partly responsible (at least to provide adequate warnings, attempts to minimize the addiction, etc.), then perhaps Sony should be held accountable - if only to force them to produce the game in the most responsible manner possible.
This is the prevailing attitude of the U.S. legal system. I happen to think that it promotes irresponsibility and victim 'syndrome.' But that's just me.
The problem with this type of attitude is that pretty much anything can be blamed outside one's direct actions, which I don't think is morally or ethically right... but morals and ethics unfortunatley, have little to do with the U.S. judicial system.
I'm not gonna go into a huge diatribe here, but I really like the European's take on product liability. If a product or service is legal, consumers use that product or service, for the most part, at their own risk.
Is that a perfect solution? No. Is it better than the alternative (use the U.S. as an example). I think so. |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:17 pm |
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Zan
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 44
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It is a dangerous thing when people blame a person,product or substance for their own wrong doing.It is even more dangerous when others believe these reasons.Get real people.Most of us have total control over what choices we make in life.If someone chooses to do harm to themselves or someone else,that is their choice.Consuming a substance or using a product that may cause harm to yourself or others,is the individuals choice. |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:27 pm |
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Weas
Village Dweller
Joined: 03 Apr 2002
Posts: 22
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Bah! Another useless lawsuit. Let's see, a guy kills himself because he can't stop playing a game? What's the problem?
This is no different from junkies who OD, or kids that kill themselves after listening to music.
It's called natural selection. Take a little responsibility for yourself for pete sake.
Everyone always cries on about human rights, and no one talks about human responsibility.
You carry your own water. No one else can, or should do it for you. The fact that this guy was so weak willed, that he couldn't stop playing a goddamn video game isn't anyone's fault but his. Least of all Sony'.
Beside's what's wrong with suicide? People get uptight about it because of the excess christian baggage we're all encumbered with (now there's a lawsuit that actully should happen, sue the friggin various religious instituions for screwing so many people up).
In old Japan suicide was a "responsible" act, undertaken by those who realized they had failed their duty or in life. Rather than live a half-life or like a beast, and be a drain and embarassament to everyone, they did the honourable thing and commited ritual suicide.
Obviously this guy had bigger issues than Everquest being an "addiction", namely his parent's and the way he was raised. It's ironic how failed parent's always need to blame everyone but themselves. "Our son was a fuck up, but it can't possibly be our fault. Let's sue somone to shift the blame/guilt from ourselves".
Don't even get me started on Jay Parker, the man is a fool. He's actually stating that Everquest and games like it are an active conspiracy to "addict" people.
Here in what we like to call "reality", we call them "games", nothing more, nothing less.
If you're "addicted" to a game, the game isn't the problem. It's really that simple.
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 9:13 pm |
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kraylore
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jan 2002
Posts: 5
Location: n.y. usa |
I consider all this "blameing games for causing this(any) event or making someone do that" a modern day "WITCH HUNT"... |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:22 pm |
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Max Killen
Exalted Potentate
Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 1112
Location: Why not Minot? |
I wonder what his last move in EverQuest was?
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:35 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
quote:
On 2002-04-03 16:35, Max Killen wrote:
I wonder what his last move in EverQuest was?
Likely loosing an item. Or realising that he is stuck to this game.
_________________
Make good choices. |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:44 pm |
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Zan
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 44
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It is losers like this that ruin things for everyone else.I wonder if and what effect his death will have on the gaming world. |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:53 pm |
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As a former EQ addict, I would like to say that online RPGs are like drugs--amazingly addctive, but unlike drugs, it is not harmful unless you over do it. I knew guys on there who failed 2 or 3 semesters of college and got kicked out, a friend who always fought with his wife over his neglect of his family and business, and my own falling out with my girlfriend due to neglecting her. The only people to blame are ourselves, for being stupid enough to let someone (Sony and Verant) take advantage of us. Instead of stupid finger pointing as this mother is doing, we need people to take responsibility for their actions. Why else would we have been given a brain? And btw, I live in America, and I think the legal system is out-of-whack; it needs serious overhauls if it lets murderers like OJ Simpson get away with their heinous crimes. |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:53 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
 Just when I didn't think the human race could sink any lower.
And there is nothing wrong with the judicial system. What is wrong are the people who are in it. Vote out judges who make decisions you don't like. Yes, you do vote for judges on a local level. Vote for canidates who will appoint judges that agree with your view. Cap lawyer fees. Get some intellegent people on juries who won't let their political or social views sour their judgement of the case.
EDIT: Of course, that will never happen because people are so apathetic.
_________________
Proprietor of the Forum of Slating Intellectual Lusts. 
=Member of the Fab Four=
[ This Message was edited by: Val on 2002-04-03 17:03 ] |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 11:02 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
quote:
On 2002-04-03 17:02, Val wrote:
Just when I didn't think the human race could sink any lower.
Check out my sig!
quote:
Cap lawyer fees.
No, just import lawyers from places that have very low rates. Ie. Here. I have heard many a story about how a local firm will do work for another firm in say... Toronto. When they are asked for a bill, the people will basically laugh at them, for they know high quality dirt is more expensive. 
_________________
Make good choices. |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 11:16 pm |
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Max Killen
Exalted Potentate
Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 1112
Location: Why not Minot? |
quote:
On 2002-04-03 16:53, Zan wrote:
I wonder if and what effect his death will have on the gaming world.
Like last nights dinner, he's forgotten
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 11:26 pm |
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Shrapnel
Rocket Scientist
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 1325
Location: Newark, NJ |
quote:
On 2002-04-03 09:59, Anonymous wrote:
"Sucks for that kid, but thats not Sony's fault"
A very typical manner of an ignorant blind person.
In my opinion a dangerous point of view if you gave up your social life for a game already.
Armagh
LOL, yep thats me. Ignorant and blind. I've only been playing MMORPGs since 97. I've called off work, blown off friends, missed family gatherings just so I could smoke a blunt and hang out for a 12-18hr session in front of my machine and get 'uber'. Usually these binges would last a weekend or two, maybe trailing off into Mondays, but by the end of Monday night, I always had that reality check, a little voice calling me back to "reality" (a concept you might wanna look into) and the next day, I'm clean shavened and back to being a member of society, not a hermit playing a game in the dark for 3/4 of the day, waiting for my next level. If you think that its Sony fault that this guy cant differentiate between the priorities in real life and the priorities in a video game, then you, friend, are probably just like him:
Friendless
Sexless
Socially Lifeless
Living whats left of your real life through a video game and calling the graphics you interact with your 'friends'.
So you might wanna take a look in the mirror before you start calling others 'blind and ignorant' cause right about now you are sounding like your girlfriend is your right hand and your circle of friends are level 55 rangers/hunters, courtesy of Sony.
Thanks for your time, now get back to your leveling, nerd :smile:
[ This Message was edited by: Shrapnel on 2002-04-04 07:37 ] |
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Thu Apr 04, 2002 1:33 pm |
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