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The Omen
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 489
Location: Greenville,SC |
OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Sausage man just dogged you!! What r u gonna do about it?  |
Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:22 pm |
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ItBurn
Village Dweller
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 14
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quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
ItBurn said:
"Oh, I reduced my details to approximately what the xbox's are and it ran faster than 35fps. And its pretty constant."
Nice claim, but if I was trying to prove that one position of an argument is more true than the other, and all I had to do was SAY that it was so, I would win every time.
Where is your proof of reducing your details to the approximate XBox specifications and running Morrowind? And what, praytell, constitutes "pretty constant" for the purposes of this discussion?
I guess I should have gotten a screenshot, but where is YOUR proof :p
EDIT, screenshot: http://itburn.tripod.com/morrowindpc.jpg
EDIT 2, you'll have to copy and paste that in your browser, cause tripod sucks.
and that was very constant.
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
Does the addition of something such as an "autorun" command make the pc version "better"? Of course not. It is perceived to be better by you because you play it on a pc, and this addition makes it easier for you to run. The game itself is not affected by such an addition, because it does not affect the core gameplay itself, which is the same for both systems.
Autorun alone dosent make morrowind better, but its an advantage. Many advantages = better.
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
Higher resolutions are indeed a boon for the pc, although this is generally tempered by the fact that most people cannot get Morrowind to run acceptably at very high resolutions.
Most people can't get the pc version of Morrowind to run acceptably? That's totally untrue. But I guess you are like god or something :p
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
And can the addition of an enemy health bar REALLY be thought of so highly that it makes the pc version better? I really can't say that it impacts the gameplay so positively that it can be considered to make the pc version better than the XBox version.
Again, the health bar alone dosent make morrowind better, but its an advantage... Think about the whole.
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
In ending, I'd say that the XBox version may not be superior technically, but it has FAR less (in fact, effectively zero) relevant factors/variables that can cause dissatisfaction than does the pc version. The XBox version is easier to run, maintain, and has a solid fps vs resolution ratio that allows for a maximum mix of graphical enjoyment AND smooth gameplay, whereas it seems that the norm for a pc player is either a good framerate, or spectacular graphics and resolution, but rarely both.
I do not agree that the features of the pc version are a distraction... And the pc allows the player to choose how he wants to play the game. You CAN get nice graphics + nice speed.
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
So I guess I fall in the "XBox version is better" camp. 
All in all, it depends on what kind of player you are. Console players and PC players are very different, and like you said, console players often like it to be simple. And that is what Morrowind for xbox is 
_________________
You n'wah!
Last edited by ItBurn on Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:00 am |
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ItBurn
Village Dweller
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 14
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Woa, my last post was huge, sorry.
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
More does not always equal better. Furthermore, the if you actually read my post, you would see that I agreed, to a point, that some of the additions to the pc version are good, they just don't make the pc version better than the XBox version.
More dosent always mean better, very true. But in this case, the "more" is positive.
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
I AGREED that an editing\scripting program is one of the addenda that can make the pc version "better". As far as greater customization over your graphics and resolution capabilities, perhaps you should re-read my first post. Just because you CAN adjust them to a greater value doesn't mean that it is better, especially when most people cannot take advantage of those capabilities, and are forced by the relative restrictions of their pc to having a graphical/resolution set-up similar to the XBox display. More options mean NOTHING if you cannot use them effectively.
So, you think that people who can handle more should be denied it? If your computer can't handle it, just don't max the details. If you have a huge machine, go right ahead, show it off.
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
And as far as controls go, name something that you can do on the pc version, that you cannot do on the XBox, that makes the controls "superior" to the XBox version. Let me see,... quickslots... And that may be all. Is there anything else you can do on the pc you cannot do on the XBox, relating to the overall gameplay? Please do not trot out the grand addition of things like "a continous run key" either. These are so insignificant as to be irrelevant, as the majority of people on this message boards are not power gamers, and have no real use for such a key and similar additions of the same earth-shattering import.
First person games controls will never be better with a gamepad. But Morrowind is not a multiplayer game, so it dosen't really matter. But I like my controls to respond as precisely/fast as a mouse and keyboard can offer. Turning and aiming in first person console games is a pain in the ass. They actually have to make the enemies shoot worse and not as much so you have a chance. Take the new medal of honor game for the ps2, and look at the medal of honor for pc.
Oh, quickslots are godsent :p
quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
Once again, adults may speak and write in ways that you have difficulty understanding. Maybe Dad should have actually helped you in first and second grade with your studies, and then you would not be confused. No matter, that is their/your fault, not mine. And when you wish to speak about "failings in argumentation", you have no further to look than the chutzpah you have thrown on the floor and have hoped to rearrange into some semblance of order and coherence. I have supplied solid reasoning into my argumentation. Have you? I have dismantled your supposed salient points. You cannot do the same to mine. 
"ITS CALLED SOPHISTRY...
SOPHISTRY
soph·is·try Pronunciation Key (sf-str)
n. pl. soph·is·tries
1. Plausible but fallacious argumentation.
2. A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument.
Do you really think going to the dictionary and picking a term that you think sounds correct will make your post any more cogent? How, in ANY way, have I presented a "fallacious" argument?
...and you made a very pathetic attempt at it."
What is absolutely hilarious about the last bit of pea-soup you have drooled out here, is that if I FAILED in sophistry, I would have PROVED MY POINTS.
Bring something to the table that contributes to the conversation, or else stop wasting my and everyone elses time with this drivel. I'm not sure why you felt the need to flame me about this (pc fanboy), but it accomplished NOTHING but making you look immature and uneducated.
A note for the mods here. I was flamed by this individual FIRST. I am
merely responding. I don't believe my response can be considered a flame.
The anger :p
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You n'wah! |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:11 am |
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Singing Sausage
Village Dweller
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Location: Houston |
ItBurn said:
"I guess I should have gotten a screenshot, but where is YOUR proof :p"
I am not the one who needs proof, for I am also not the one who made a claim that 'Oh, I reduced my details to approximately what the xbox's are and it ran faster than 35fps. And its pretty constant.', in order to boost my claims. You were.
"Autorun alone dosent make morrowind better, but its an advantage. Many advantages = better."
I can agree that it is an advantage, but once again, ONLY because it is on the pc. Does autorun affect how the game is played, or displayed, or the smoothness (fps) of gameplay? No. Many advantages = better only really works if they are relevant to both systems. What you call advantages are really just different ways of coming to the same conclusion, which is playing the game. The bottom line here is that less steps generally equal easier to use, and easier to use generally means better.
"Most people can't get the pc version of Morrowind to run acceptably?"
This would only be part of what I said...
'although this is generally tempered by the fact that most people cannot get Morrowind to run acceptably at very high resolutions.'
This is what I said, and it is true. How many people do you know of that can run Morrowind acceptably at 1280x1024?
"Again, the health bar alone dosent make morrowind better, but its an advantage... Think about the whole."
I AM thinking of the whole, not irrelevant parts that don't affect the gameplay so much that they could make one consider the pc version better.
"I do not agree that the features of the pc version are a distraction... And the pc allows the player to choose how he wants to play the game. You CAN get nice graphics + nice speed."
You don't have to agree, but having to install at least one patch, having crashes and freezes, and having unacceptable frame-rate stutter ARE distractions. This is fairly clear. The XBox version, and playing it, are a simple matter of placing the disc in the tray, and turning the console on. No frame-rate stutter, no patches needed, and consistent performance every single time are much more acceptable than what is proffered on the pc.
Furthermore, yes, you CAN get nice graphics and acceptable frame-rates, but I'm guessing that when one DOES, they are similar to the output of the XBox.
"All in all, it depends on what kind of player you are. Console players and PC players are very different, and like you said, console players often like it to be simple. And that is what Morrowind for xbox is."
Simple is usually ALWAYS better. Who would want to use/operate/play something that requires an inordinate amount of steps, when there is a simpler alternative that is virtually the same product/experience?
Why is the editor for the pc version of Morrowind a good thing, and well liked by many who use it? Because it is simple. If it had a ridiculous amount of steps and processes in order to make any plugins or mods, the popularity of that feature would plummet like the stock value of Enron. |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:34 am |
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ItBurn
Village Dweller
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 14
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Ok, so what you tell me is, simple is better.
Well, morrowind for pc is as simple as the xbox version, it can be more complicated/powerfull if you wish. So, I guess that both are as much fun, but the pc version offers you more. So, it's simple, I can access more stuff, so the pc version is better. You don't have to access them, but its a possibility.
Let's take a chocolate cake, it's nice and all. but Imagine if you have more chocolate you could spread on it. It takes effort to do it, but in the end, it makes it better.
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You n'wah! |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:46 am |
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Singing Sausage
Village Dweller
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Location: Houston |
ItBurn said:
"More dosent always mean better, very true. But in this case, the "more" is positive."
Agreed. However, do the positives mentioned above make it better overall than the XBox version? IF the argument is based mainly upon the addition of an editing/scripting program, and a person really likes the idea of that, and will use it and its spawn, well, I can't really argue against that. The XBox will never have the editing/scripting option, so that would, in this case, make the pc version much better.
"So, you think that people who can handle more should be denied it?"
I didn't say that at all.
"If your computer can't handle it, just don't max the details."
Indeed. And when one does this, they reduce the appearance of the game to the level of the XBox output, or even below.
"If you have a huge machine, go right ahead, show it off."
By all means. :^)
"First person games controls will never be better with a gamepad. But Morrowind is not a multiplayer game, so it dosen't really matter. But I like my controls to respond as precisely/fast as a mouse and keyboard can offer. Turning and aiming in first person console games is a pain in the ass. They actually have to make the enemies shoot worse and not as much so you have a chance. Take the new medal of honor game for the ps2, and look at the medal of honor for pc."
I agree that the controls can never be better on a gamepad. But, since this isn't a multiplayer game, and there is no need to be able to have your controls respond as quickly as is comfortable for each individual, I can't see that as being an advantage that makes the pc version better. Morrowind, and its gaming experience, is not predicated on quickness.
"Oh, quickslots are godsent :p"
Grr... 
"The anger :p"
Heh. I din't want to bust out on him, but he flamed me for no discernible reason. So I had to present him with the execution of excellent eloquence...  |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:48 am |
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Singing Sausage
Village Dweller
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Location: Houston |
ItBurn said:
"Ok, so what you tell me is, simple is better.
Well, morrowind for pc is as simple as the xbox version, it can be more complicated/powerfull if you wish. So, I guess that both are as much fun, but the pc version offers you more. So, it's simple, I can access more stuff, so the pc version is better. You don't have to access them, but its a possibility."
A possibility, yes, but what, other than the aforementioned editor, does the pc version REALLY offer that makes it clearly better than the XBox version? This is what is yet to be answered.
"Let's take a chocolate cake, it's nice and all. but Imagine if you have more chocolate you could spread on it. It takes effort to do it, but in the end, it makes it better."
This is indeed a good allegory. But I can't see more chocolate being a gripping reason to not enjoy the cake that requires less work. |:^) |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:54 am |
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ItBurn
Village Dweller
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 14
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Ah well sausage, I think that we just made a complete proof that states that the type of gamer you are will determine wich game you'll want :p
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You n'wah! |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:56 am |
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Singing Sausage
Village Dweller
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Location: Houston |
Re: Screenshot of Morrowind
Good God, man! The trees in the forest of XBox land NEVER looked that blocky and pixelated. If that is what 38 frames a second looks like on the pc, I'd take the XBox version anyday.
But I guess I already made that clear... |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:58 am |
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ItBurn
Village Dweller
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 14
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quote:
Originally posted by Singing Sausage
Re: Screenshot of Morrowind
Good God, man! The trees in the forest of XBox land NEVER looked that blocky and pixelated. If that is what 38 frames a second looks like on the pc, I'd take the XBox version anyday.
But I guess I already made that clear...
I reduced the jpg quality, I don't have endless room :p
The art is the same for both versions
Also, my comp isnt top of the line, I only have a gf3ti200. Wich is pretty ncie still 
_________________
You n'wah!
Last edited by ItBurn on Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:59 am |
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Singing Sausage
Village Dweller
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Location: Houston |
ItBurn said:
"Ah well sausage, I think that we just made a complete proof that states that the type of gamer you are will determine wich game you'll want :p"
Agreed.
And as for MtnDwarf, if you happen to read this, what ItBurn has presented in his? previous posts is how you debate/argue two points, which is something, by the looks of your posts, you could never do.  |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:02 am |
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sooth
Head Merchant
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 55
Location: http://folksites.com/hollowpath/ |
I'm with TheOmen on this'n mates. i got both. i like both. Ultima is a great game too. I cant wait until Call of Cthulu comes out. then I can stop playing Morrowind for a while.
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-puts pinky to lower lip and raises brow- |
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 9:52 am |
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shockzero
Village Dweller
Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Pennsylvania,USA |
uh huh...
PC:
Patches, Plugins, Infinite amount of new stuff to do because of the editor, and OF COURSE the fact that you have a keyboard and mouse to move.
Xbox:blurry, cant change it AT ALL, and you have to use that football with buttons they call the xbox controller.
Gimme my PC..thanks
_________________
weeeeeeeee |
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Tue Aug 06, 2002 7:47 pm |
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The Omen
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 489
Location: Greenville,SC |
Blurry, no, and sorry if you have small hands but some people can play with it with no problem, like me.
_________________
Nothing is impossible... for me!!
The funniest site ever! |
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Tue Aug 06, 2002 7:52 pm |
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Nukleus
Village Dweller
Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 8
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Ahhh the PC vs Xbox argument, well there can only really be 1 winner
THE PC
Why, because in 2 years the x-box will be obselete/outdated while the PC will keep on getting improved. Also consoles can never look as good or be as good as PC's because consoles use old PC technology,eg x-box uses P3 processor and 64mb ram,My PC has P4 1.9ghz and 256 RAM see the difference.
As for the morrowind argument, The x-box version is somewhat blurry and not as sharp as PC version(just try reading the text ),plus the controls are very difficult(try aiming a bow using a joypad its next to impossible ), for Morrowing nothing beats the mouse/keyboard combination. PC wins CASE CLOSED  |
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Fri Aug 16, 2002 11:38 pm |
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