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Here's what happened on the Icewind Dale II forums recently.
Josh SawyerWill there be a beginning party
IWD2 will have two or three adventuring companies, complete with character bios and company backgrounds, for you to select.
A reply to some complaints for introducing 3E multiclassing
Okay, I'll sticky it this time just so it doesn't get lost in the flood.
1) Your intial post lamented the arrival of "MUNCHKINMANIA" because of recent 3E changes. From this, I can only assume the removal of kits and the inclusion of 3E multiclassing and feats. I will first address these issues:
1a) Kits were never balanced to begin with. Not kits in the books, not kits in IE games. The archer was not a balanced kit. The kensai was not a balanced kit. Whatever balance might have been "inherent" in AD&D class/multi-class/dual-class system was ruined by the inclusion of poorly balanced kits. So, lamenting the loss of kits because it ruins balance is a poor argument; they were never balanced to begin with.
1b) I will now move to the merits of 3E multiclassing. While we all know that 3E multiclassing offers more options than 2nd Ed. multiclassing, that wasn't the focus of your attack. You attacked the change because of "character stability" issues. Let us examine a sample character to test this argument.
Here is Valian, an elven Mage/Thief. In 2nd Edition, let's say he has 140,000 XP. This puts him at a divided 70,000 XP -- enough to be a 7th level Mage/8th level Thief. He can cast 4 1st, 3 2nd, 2 3rd, and 1 4th level spell. He has a backstab multiplier of x3, and 270 skill points to distribute.
Compare him to a 9th level Mage and a 9th level Thief. The 9th level mage can cast one more 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spell. The thief has a x4 backstab multiplier and 330 skill points to distribute.
Let's use Valian in 3E. If he had enough XP to be an 8th level character, he would be a 4th level Wizard, 4th level Rogue. He can cast 3 1st level spells, 2 2nd level spells. He has +1d6 sneak attack, and, 48 skill points.
Compare him to an 8th level Mage and an 8th level Rogue. The 8th level mage can cast 1 more 1st, and 2nd level spell, 3 more 3rd level spells, and 2 more 4th level spells. The 8th level Rogue has +4d6 sneak attack and 88 skill points.
Mathematically, the 2nd Ed. multiclassed character is getting much more "out of the deal" than the 3E multiclassed character. Ergo, complaints that the removal of 2nd Ed. multiclassing and the introduction of 3E multiclassing causes balance problems are unfounded.
2) The changing of percentile systems to a d20 base does very little to change the mechanics of how they operate, as does the inversion of of AC and THAC0. Mathematically, the same integers are passing back and forth; their absolute value has simply been changed. Let us examine THAC0, which you specifically cited.
In 2nd Edition, a player rolled a d20 and added their bonuses to hit. If the sum was equal to or greater than the character's THAC0 minus AC, the character hit.
In 3E, a player rolls a d20 and adds his or her bonuses to hit. If the sum is equal to or greater than the target's AC, the character hits. The change here is a subtle one; THAC0 is not subtracted from. It is now BAB, which is added. AC values are, in most cases, identical, so they are simply added to 10, maintaing the same mathematical relationship.
Because the mathematics work out almost identically, they do not cause any balance problems that did not already exist in 2nd Edition AD&D. The use of the argument "it must be too hard for you" is not an argument against the system, it is an argument against the people using the system. Any argument against the mathematics of the system are impotent specifically because they work out identically.
3) The presence or absence of weapon speed is good or bad depending on your preference. Many people do not like weapon speed or find AD&D 2nd Ed's "system" of its implementation to be unrealistic. However, even if you love weapon speed, the manner in which it is implemented in the IE is not true to the PnP rules. When a character with a slow weapon gets multiple attacks per round, the weapon speed delay gets truncated in order to fit all of a characters attacks into a round. Weapons in IWD2 still have weapon speed; mostly because it doesn't make much of a difference whether it is present or absent.
Followed by:
And if you didn't want to play a dual-classed human character, what made it an attractive character option compared to an elf or dwarf? An 8th level dwarven fighter in 2nd Ed. is just better than an 8th level human fighter. The notion of balance in an RPG system is not there to force roleplaying decisions. It is present so that a player does not feel penalized simply for playing a character in a certain way.
I try not to let systems stand in the way of roleplaying choices that I make. In 2nd Ed., my fighter with a low strength, lower con, high int and higher dex was practically useless to the party. I still played him to the best of his abilities; it's just that his abilities were pretty limited by the ruleset. That same character in 3E was not a liability to the party. He was quite knowledgeable, often using his Knowledge: Religion and Knowledge: Arcana to catch checks that the wizard missed. He could often (but not always) creep alongside the party thief to help with scouting and backup
I guess I look at it this way: if a 2nd Ed. fighter puts high stats in Int, Wis, and Cha, they are practically wasted from a purely mechanical standpoint. I still roleplay the character as a character with a high Int and Wis, but the system essentially tells me, "You put these stats in the wrong spot. Bad fighter! Bad fighter!" My 3E version of the fighter at least gets something useful out of his high Int and Wis. That's my view on it, anyway.
A 3E ranger can take their hated enemy repeatedly, gaining higher bonuses against them. As for abominations, I would hardly say they constitute a quarter of the enemies in any given game. In most campaigns, humanoids comprise roughly half of the opponents, with magical beasts, undead, constructs, and abominations rounding things out.
In spirit, certainly. In execution, I believe 3E and 2nd Ed/S&P are miles apart.
Fighters and skills
Fighters will be able to put their skill points into anything but Use Magic Device, Animal Empathy, and Wilderness Lore. However, the only skills they could buy at a 1:1 ratio would be Intimidate and Lore: Arms and Armor.
Fighters have never been skill-oriented characters. Even in 3E PnP, their access to skills simply allows them to tag along with characters that can use those skills more effectively. How often do the fighters actually climb or sneak with the rogues? How often do they jump the huge gap that the monk casually bounds over? Not often. With 2 skill points, there's only so much you can do. And isn't having access to some skills better than having no access to skills?
Rangers
The ranger was poorly structured in the beginning. At 1st level, the ranger gets three feats (Ranger Ambidexterity, Ranger Two-Weapon Fighting, and Track). As the ranger class progresses, the class doesn't get a whole lot of stuff (more hated enemies and druid spells). MC took away those free 1st level feats (but put a free feat in its place -- huh?) and gave the ranger better skills and free feats every three levels. If you take away the 1st level feat, the ranger is not the super cheesy multi-class combo, and it's a pretty nice class on its own.
Damien Foletto (Puuk)About violence
As far as I know (and in the areas I'm responsible for), anything that is moving is fair game. Granted, there are repercussions for dastardly deeds, but it's your game, slaughter what you like.
On that same token, there are several instances where the best solution is not always the violent solution. For example, in one area there is a barghest whelp that will ask for your assistance with a dispute he has with a dekanter goblin. If you maneuver correctly and not be a hot head, you'll leave with both the whelp and goblin alive, get a boat load of XP and a few magical goodies to boot - or you can just kill both and not deal with it - it's up to you
BTW - Playing an evil character doesn't necessarily mean you go around killing everything in sight - that's psychotic. A truly evil character does plenty of good deeds to feed the illusion of not being evil, and then will do the nasty deeds when he/she feels it's safe for them and not gets caught. The act of getting away with the evil without raising suspicion from the victims is usually the most evil acts of all. |
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Icewind Dale II Forum Update
