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Iron Man
Dazed and Confused
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 773
Location: Location Location |
Ah, brillient! 
_________________
This box secretly turns into a picture and laughs at YOU personally when you're not looking. |
Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:57 pm |
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Navaros
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 40
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a reality check is needed. i am not a "troll" and there is not something "wrong with me" simply because i have pointed out to you all with great detail and irrefutable evidence why the game you like so much is without question an almost-worthless POS, namely, Gothic.
i can't be bothered learning how to multi-quote on this board, so forgive me for not doing so
of the few on-topic and relevant responses i've seen in this thread, i noticed a general consensus on a few things. it is to those things that I will respond.
i use a GeForce 4 Ti 4600 and SB Live. ALL my Gothic graphical and audio settings were always to MAX at all times. Everything in Gothic STILL looks bland, washed-out, color-less, polygonal, and poorly-textured. basically, like crap. the age of Gothic is no exscuse at all. there are myriads of games released in the year 1999 which have infinitely better graphics than Gothic. ie, Deus Ex, Vampire. the graphics and sound in those are both literally 1000% better than in Gothic, and Deus Ex & Vampire were both released in 1999! LOL btw, those are just TWO examples of many which i could cite! No matter what kind of "spin" you try to put on it, the fact is the graphics and sound in Gothic are total horse crap, even when compared to games of it's own time or earlier.
some of you say the music in Gothic is "a matter of taste". This is not so. Anyone with even the slightest semblance of taste will realize that the "music" in Gothic does not even qualify as music. Hearing a dull 10-second-long string of synthesized "notes" which is looped endlessly during all travel is enough to induce Columbine x10 in even the sanest of young gamers. The two examples above, Deus Ex, Vampire again may be used as a direct example of how much the "music" in Gothic is horrendously-bad even when compared to games released far earlier.
Likewise with the "Controls". The controls in Gothic suck no matter what. Even if you "Master" the horrible controls, it just means that you're "making the best of terrible situation". However, that in no way diminishes the fact that the controls suck. Gothic forces you to hold down the "forward" key at all times just to attack, in ADDITION to pressing the "attack button" AND WHILE trying to navigate your character around the enemy's attack. The only possible result is a messy bout of awkward "combat" for which there is no possible way to control in any sort of REASONABLE manner. [this may not apply so much to Mages/Rangers, but not everyone uses those, and even then you still have to play the game for 20+ hours with a sword before being able to become a Mage or Ranger]
to those who say, "Gothic has swords and killing, so that makes promoting ILLEGAL DRUG USE in the game okay!": Killing someone is a not something the average kid will do. Swords as in Gothic are not accessible for kids to get their hands on easily and experiment with. If they were, I have no doubt that many people would be imitating their "INVINCIBLE GOTHIC HERO" in real life and accidentally gutting their best friends with swords. Because swords are hard to get for kids, Gothic influencing such killing in real life is a far-fetched and unrealistic. However, it is NOT hard for kids to get their hands on illegal drugs and fry their brains/bodies by using them. Just as Gothic tells them it's COOL to do. It is not the fact that illegal drugs are *present* in the world of Gothic which causes the problem, rather it is that Gothic *GLORIFIES* the use of illegal drugs in real life by telling kids everywhere that all the strongest and coolest people in the world use illegal drugs on a regular basis. [again, to see the inclusion of Illegal Drugs done in a way which does not glorify their use, see Deus Ex]. Anyone who is not deeply offended by the fact that Gothic flagrantly encourages all players to fry their brains with illegal drugs in real life is an immoral person.
i believe Dez was the one who commented about all the "many enemy models" in Gothic. i think i said there weren't more than 10, and he didn't list more than 10! LOL despite going out of his way to include every possible model from anywhere in the game , i don't know the exact number, a techie probably would, but whatever it is, the fact remains that most of the time spent in Gothic is looking-at/killing the exact same enemy models over and over and overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ad nauseam |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:12 am |
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hoyp
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 501
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You obiouvly have no idea about waht your talking about.
- Poor gfx? Give me an rpg that has already been released that has better gfx than gothic, other than Dungeon siege morrowind and arx. Deus X's and Vampire had relatively good gfx but they certainly can't compare.Why? Even though some of the textures in gothic are kind of dull at times, the sky effects are fantastic and the models are deatiled. The mountains are realistic and they provide a real sense of height (unlike morrowind).
- Poor music? Me and most people don't think so. Why? because the music blends perfectly with the gameworld and it adds A LOT to the "feel" of the game.
- The combat in the game is fantastic, that's a fact. Why? Well, because unlike most games out there, YOU do the combat, not your character. As far as I know, the only thing wrong with the controls is the trading screen.
- Gothic has many models and It certainly has more than 30.
You obviously don't know what roleplaying is all about. RPG's are about immersing yourself in a semi-realistic/realistic gameworld and living with your character and watching him improve. So what if gothic has only one plot? It happens to be one of the most involving. Perhaps the only right thing you said was with the ending. It BLOWS, SUCKS and REAKS.
And one more thing, You can't just say that a game sucks because you didn't like it. |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:59 am |
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Dez
King of the Realms
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 455
Location: Fortress of Tell Halaf |
1.Skeleton
2.Skeleton mage
3.Skeleton Warrior
4.Skeleton scout
5.Zombie
6.Fire Lizzard
7.Lizzard
8.Orc
9.Orc Scout
10.Orc Warrior
11.Orc Fighter
12.ORc temple warrior
13.Orc Clan warrior
14.ORc shaman
15.Undead Orc Shaman
16.ORc temple guard
17.ORc hightemple guard
18.Molerat
19.Scavenger
20.Young molerat
21.young scavenger
22.Troll
23.Young troll
24.Snapper
25.Razor
26.Stone Golem
27.fire golem
28 Ice Golem
29.Fire demon
30.orc slave
31.Wolf
32.Goblin
33.Black Goblin
34.Goblin Warrior
35.Bloodfly
36.Lurker
37.Bloodhound
38.shadowbeast
39.Swamp shark
40.minecrawler
41.Minecrawlerqueen
42.MinecrawlerWarrior
43.Temple minecrawler
44.Meatbug
45.Bitter
46.ORcDog
47.Demonlord
48.Harpie
49.Lesser demon
And finally 50.Sleeper
Then i could count all the human models..LEts just say one word:
"owned" 
Did you even play the game?Or why do you keep talking so much shit?
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The focused mind can pierce through stone |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:48 am |
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Kiwi Boy
High Emperor
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1086
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quote:
Originally posted by Navaros
Likewise with the "Controls". The controls in Gothic suck no matter what. Even if you "Master" the horrible controls, it just means that you're "making the best of terrible situation". However, that in no way diminishes the fact that the controls suck. Gothic forces you to hold down the "forward" key at all times just to attack, in ADDITION to pressing the "attack button" AND WHILE trying to navigate your character around the enemy's attack. The only possible result is a messy bout of awkward "combat" for which there is no possible way to control in any sort of REASONABLE manner. [this may not apply so much to Mages/Rangers, but not everyone uses those, and even then you still have to play the game for 20+ hours with a sword before being able to become a Mage or Ranger]
I don't know... I don't have Gothic 1... but you have just proven that you did not master the controls in Gothic by calling it "a messy bout of awkward 'combat' for which there is no possible way to control in any sort." IMHO, controls in Gothic (at least in Gothic 2) is awkward but not impossible to master. Try to practice a bit, and you may find that combat in Gothic 1 is not as frustrating as you think.
For instance, Gothic does NOT force you to attack by pressing ONLY the 'attack' (L.Ctrl) and 'forward' keys, as you have said. You can also attack by pressing the 'left' and 'right' keys. In fact, with the combination of 'forward', 'left' and 'right' keys and proper timing, you can form some special combo attacks which will significantly ease your journey in Gothic. e.g. Try these out: - Try pressing [attack] + [left], and then [right], then [left] and so on...
- Try pressing [attack] + [left], then [right], then [forward], then [left], [right], and so on.
Spend some time to practice them -- with proper timing, you'll be able to have fluid motion swinging your weapon.
If you use the two "combos" I have listed above at the right time, you may find them extremely powerful -- so powerful that they can be used to defeat some higher-class monsters. For your reference, more combos can be found here.
Regarding of poor graphics in Gothic 1, I partly agree. However, please keep in mind that this is an RPG which was released two years ago. It may not be fair to compare it to an RPG today (e.g. Morrowind) or to an FPS-based game during that time (e.g. Deus Ex).
As Dez has demonstrated from his list of monsters, it seems that you have not yet discovered the full potential of Gothic. Please, enjoy your game more thoroughly before making more negative comments. After all, you may find it's not as bad as you thought. |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:24 am |
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Navaros
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 40
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dez, at least you gave a technical answer this time
however, most of those "Models" you listed are not distinct at all. they are just the same model with very minor color or size variation and/or statistical upgrades which are not visual at all
it looks like a large list "on paper", but in reality they all look the same and there is not *truly* much more than 10 distinct enemy models in all of Gothic
Last edited by Navaros on Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:30 am |
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Kiwi Boy
High Emperor
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1086
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quote:
Originally posted by Navaros
it looks like a large list "on paper", but in reality they all look the same and there is not *truly* much more than 10 distinct enemy models in all of Gothic
No... play the *entire* game and you'll find there're more than 10 enemy types in the game. You just can't judge how many monsters in the game just by playing part of it. In fact, some of the monsters only exist at the later part of the game (e.g. Orcs).
quote:
Originally posted by Navaros
however, most of those "Models" you listed are not distinct at all. they are just the same model with very minor color or size variation and/or statistical upgrade which are not visual at all
Actually, they ARE different. Try comparing an Orc Warrior with an Orc Shaman -- same type, different levels, BUT significantly different models. |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:37 am |
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Scribbles
Unsent
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1063
Location: Spokane, WA. US of A |
quote:
Originally posted by Dez
Then i could count all the human models..LEts just say one word:
"owned"
Did you even play the game?Or why do you keep talking so much shit?
i love your choice of words Dez. PH34R T3H W0R|) C|-|0IC3!!
i would have said it like this though "0W/\/Z3D"
Hey Navaros, im going to ask you the same question that i asked you at the JoWooD forum. If you thought that the game was so horrible, why did you waste your time playing it? that defeats the whole purpose of playing a game. is there any point in playing a game if you dont like it? do you like anything about Gothic that made it unique from other games? i just dont understand your thinking. why spend so much time ranting about a topic that you hate?
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Broken in Exile |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:05 am |
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Navaros
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 40
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scribbles,
the reason i take the time out to state how much Gothic sucks is because:
1. I paid good money for it so PB/JoWood owe me for taking my money in exchange for a POS. This is a form of retribution. Gothic 2 will probably suck almost as bad as Gothic, so this is a precursor for those who will recall my spot-on review and refuse to waste their money on Gothic 2 (i know many of you here are fanboys and to you this will not apply, but to some readers, it will apply)
2. I invested precious hours of my life in this POS, and when I first invested those hours I didn't realize what I was getting into. Since I had already invested so much time in the game, I finished it. The Professional Reviews didn't bother to mention many of the points I noted in my Review (other than combat) , therefore I was not aware of how much Gothic sucks before I bought it. |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:13 am |
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ballistic
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 44
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hey, guy this game is not for you then, sell it on e-bay, and move on. you are exacting a 'revenge' on a freakin game? what's up with that? |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:28 am |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
quote:
Originally posted by Navaros
i have pointed out to you all with great detail and irrefutable evidence why the game you like so much is without question an almost-worthless POS
You proved that you don't like it.
When I find out that I don't like a game, that it's a waste of money, I usually uninstall and sell it before I go all the way (as done with, for example, Baldur's Gate, NWN, Dungeon Siege, Max Payne) - my time is too precious for that, and there are too many interesting games around. I do not, however, try to convince other people of seeing it the same way. The fact that I dislike NWN because the plot bored me out of my mind doesn't mean it's a bad game - all it means is that I didn't like it. If I wanted to exact revenge on a game company for each and every game I played and thought was a waste of my money, there'd be certainly no time left to play the games I like.
There are always people who will like a certain game for certain reasons, and others who won't.
It's all a matter of taste.
=EDIT=
Edited for omission - forgot half a sentence
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Jaz
Last edited by Jaz on Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:40 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:32 am |
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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
Well, different strokes for different folks.
You know what, a lot of people just fawn over Planescape: Torment, but that game never did much for me. However, I don't think it was a POS. It simply wasn't my style.
There is something about Gothic's style that makes it easy to overlook its faults and this is why many of us admire it so greatly.
There is a sort of grit and irreverence in the world that you just don't see in many games. When you talk to the NPCs, you get the feeling that these are real people who, under different circumstances, you could just hang out with. It just so happens that you guys are in this "fantasy" world..but they still act and talk like normal guys. That's what is perfect about Gothic .. the tone in the game isn't too serious .. but it isn't too playful either. It's JUST RIGHT. Its very hard to describe but I don't know any other game that has that balance.
There is saarcasm and humor -- but never too much that overcomes the sense of danger. And then there is the danger, darkness, evil, etc. But that is always balanced by your visits to the camps and conversations with normal people that bring the game back down to earth.
Just from playing the Gothic 2 demo, it seems like this feeling has been presevered in the sequel.
SO anyway, I didn't so much refute your review as much as I outlined something major you missed about Gothic that MAY be a matter of taste--but is significant to many of us.
And for the record, I thought the English translation and voice acting were quite good. IF they were NOT, there would be no way that this "Gothic Feeling" I described could have been acheived.
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All shall hear the words of Karras...the words of Karras |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:35 am |
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ballistic
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 44
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quote:
Originally posted by elkston
Well, different strokes for different folks.
...
There is a sort of grit and irreverence in the world that you just don't see in many games. When you talk to the NPCs, you get the feeling that these are real people who, under different circumstances, you could just hang out with. It just so happens that you guys are in this "fantasy" world..but they still act and talk like normal guys. That's what is perfect about Gothic .. the tone in the game isn't too serious .. but it isn't too playful either. It's JUST RIGHT. Its very hard to describe but I don't know any other game that has that balance.
...
bull's eye! took the liberty of quoting this, if you don't mind  point-by-point refutes have been given by others, but this is the gist of why I enjoyed Gothic 1 immensely. it felt real. (well, as real as a fantasy world can be felt) |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:39 am |
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Dez
King of the Realms
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 455
Location: Fortress of Tell Halaf |
I'll just have to comment what you said about drugs, even if it sounded quite silly and naive .Please tell us: how excatly does Gothic glorify, that using drugs is cool?You don't actually HAVE to smoke any weed to make progress.You don't need to sell any weed unless you join the brotherhood(i'm not sure, was it even then imperative).Above all i've never heard about any drug called swampweed.Besides like i said you are talking FICTION way too seriously.Then why don't you moralize, that drinking wine,beer and rice snaps glorifies using alcoholl aswell.Thats what most npcs do there all the time.Still you have a choise you don't need to drink them either, if you find it disturbing.
In Deus Ex you had similar choise.Thought i kinda missed some efects Dx had, like getting drunk if drinked too much wine for instance  .I'll hope we get to see those efects in gothic games some day.
It also amaizes me how easily you can make those smart conslusions of yours.LEts think about a moment, why would someone start to using drugs?I mean are you really serious when you claim with bright eyes, that people will start using drugs if they see them used in GAME or MOVIE or in some other form of fiction?Do they start shooting people if they see GUNS in a game?I don't think so.But if we start analyzing this, it goes beyond the influence of games.
_________________
The focused mind can pierce through stone |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:12 am |
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m00nchile
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 35
Location: Portoroz, Slovenia |
Well, the graphics were already discussed in great detail (IMO not that good, but very adequate and atmospheric). About the controls, all my friends who played gothic said that after about 30 or 40 mins they were at home with them and wouldn't change them. About the barrier, you said that it doesn't make sense that things go in and not out. Then, how much sense does it make that the king is fighting orcs, mining for magical ore, magicians etc etc. It's a fantasy game, get over it. Take Martix for an example. About the sound and music, the music is very atmospheric and fits the general feel of the game well and you PLAY a game, not listen to it's music. And it is a matter of taste, just like I listen to metal and you may think that it sucks. You have the right to think so. Ambient sound and speech was a little repetitive but also quite fitting. About the "glorifying" of drugs, you have to be, as you put it, simple-minded to allow a game to influence you that much.
Oh and this: the magical barrier was made by 12 magicians and a 13th one controling them and they used the 5 focus stones to focus their power, which is depicted in the intro movie and explained by Saturas and Xardas.
How did you miss this? It was plot critical.
And a final thought, Gothic IMO is a very good and immersive game. You have the right to say it sucks, but some of your points impose your opinion on others and you don't have the right to do that.
PS No flame intended, I'm just trying to add my (although a bit objectified) oppinion to the disscusion.
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For all you headbangers, check out my band's page @ http://www.black-oath.com |
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Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:31 pm |
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