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RPG's Like Max Payne
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RPGDot Forums > CRPGs General

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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
Master of Shadows




Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 682
Location: Underdark
   

quote:
Originally posted by Pinnen
Too linear. Too linear. Too linear.
How many times do I have to repeat?

Thats Enough.
And Danicek I'm Like You.
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Post Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:00 am
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irritantnumber6
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Joined: 07 May 2002
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For me, an example of a game that isn't linear enough is Morrowind. After about fifty hours of play, I just didn't get the feeling that the game "cared" whether I got anything done or not. I lost interest.

I am surprised, however, to hear GTAIII refered to as linear. I though that was the game's whole genius: that it was, for once, an action game that WASN'T linear. Did I miss a meeting?

I've never really minded linearity in games. Even in RPGs. To me the story isn't what needs to be flexible in an RPG (sacrilege!). I feel like what's really going on in any RPG is this: There's this big problem and you and your team have to fix it. Where the non-linearity comes in is on HOW you fix the problem. Maybe you'll fix the problem as a rogue (or even a rouge!), or as an archer, tank, or mage. I don't mind that the story is basically the same.
Post Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:33 pm
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Pinnen
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Joined: 19 May 2002
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GTA3 is linear. Just because you are free to ride around in town between missions, it does not equal to non-linearity. If you ever wanted to get of the first island, you had to do certain missions. And you had to do them in more or less a given order. To get mission B you had to fininsh mission A. The fact that you could do mission D -> E had nothing to do with non-linearity. To get mission C you had to complete mission B. And to complete B you had to complete A. Donīt let the freedom of what seems like multiple and endless choices be confused with non-linearity.
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Post Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:47 pm
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Eagle's Shadow




Joined: 27 May 2002
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Location: Montreal, Canada
   

quote:
Originally posted by irritantnumber6
For me, an example of a game that isn't linear enough is Morrowind. After about fifty hours of play, I just didn't get the feeling that the game "cared" whether I got anything done or not. I lost interest.

I have to agree with Pinnen. I think you confuse Linearity with Open-Ended gameplay. To say that Morrowind was not linear enough is false. The main quest (or any other quest for that matter) was very linear. The freedom of choosing when to go in and out of that quest and do as you please, or go where you like, is open-endedness, not linearity. To say that Morrowind was too open-ended for your taste would better define what you mean I think

As someone else once said (I think it was Roach, but not entirely sure) "A story is linear by definition" and that is really true. You can't tell a story without linearity. You can't tell it well in any case.
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Post Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:07 pm
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irritantnumber6
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I'll buy that, Ekim. Good distinction.
Post Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:31 pm
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
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quote:
Originally posted by Pinnen
GTA3 is linear. Just because you are free to ride around in town between missions, it does not equal to non-linearity.

Gta3 is linear in the story but the missions you can do them as you wish.
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Post Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:46 pm
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Pinnen
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Joined: 19 May 2002
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How do you mea you can do the missions as you like?
"Steal this car, plant a bomb in it and park it were you stole it.. Do it in 4 minutes" There isnīt very much freedom to do as you please in a mission like that.
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Post Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:51 pm
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irritantnumber6
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Pinnen, in GTAIII you can also ignore the main story and go off on your own and do your own thing. You can't really do that in traditional action games.
Post Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:22 pm
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
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quote:
Originally posted by irritantnumber6
Pinnen, in GTAIII you can also ignore the main story and go off on your own and do your own thing. You can't really do that in traditional action games.

Again, what you're saying is that the game is open-ended, not linear. Pinnen is arguing the fact that someone said the game's missions were not linear I didn't see anyone dispute the fact that GTAIII is open-ended.
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Post Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:56 pm
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Pinnen
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Again, I agree with Ekim. Itīs not that Iīm all in favor of linearity, quite the opposite. But as of today, I find it hard to be able to present a game to someone, given the tehniques used in games today, that is totally and completely non-linear. The closest thing one can get to non-linearity for a single player today is actually The Sims.
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Post Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:53 pm
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 682
Location: Underdark
   

quote:
Originally posted by irritantnumber6
Pinnen, in GTAIII you can also ignore the main story and go off on your own and do your own thing. You can't really do that in traditional action games.

Thanx Very Much Thanx
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Post Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:35 am
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Danicek
The Old One
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
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Location: Czech Republic
   

quote:
Originally posted by Pinnen
The closest thing one can get to non-linearity for a single player today is actually The Sims.


The Sims are very interesting example of non-linearity. When I though about this topic I didnt though about Sims. Interesting and it seems that you are right :].
Post Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:37 pm
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Pinnen
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Location: The Sandy Beach Resort
   

As for GTA3, you still had to complete missions in order to adnvance. Sure, I can run around in the subway in Max Payne, shooting at the walls and the passing trains, but the game doesnīt advance. Itīs the same thing really, only that it goes on so much more in GTA3 one thinks of it in a different way. In Mafia, after you leave Salieris bar, you can ignore the mission, just drive around town, shooting people, stealing cars. But again; the game will not advance. In Sims, there is no story. And since there is no story, it isnīt linear. With story/plot comes linearity.
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Post Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:17 pm
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002
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yeah whatever you say Pinnen.
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Post Fri Oct 18, 2002 4:38 am
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Pinnen
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Joined: 19 May 2002
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Location: The Sandy Beach Resort
   

Hey, at least I put some effort in trying to explain what I mean... Now, can we please drop this discussion?
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Post Fri Oct 18, 2002 6:52 am
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