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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| Gothic 3 Release Date Uncertain |
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Koch Media / Deep Silver UK has recently updated their <a href="http://www.deepsilver.de/product_list.html?rid=8657665817964329148929037" target="_blank">product listing</a> for Gothic 3 with a new release date of Q4 2006. At this point, JoWood's <a href="http://www.jowood.com/gamers/?site=10&lang=en&ScreenID=5481" target="_blank">listing</a> remains simply "2006" for all territories.
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<br>We'll bring you any more specific information as soon as we hear it. Thanks, Sem! |
Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:38 am |
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Dajjer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Los Angeles area |
In addition to the great length and the almost mandatory delays in just about all modern CRPGs, perhaps we have reached some kind of programming ceiling.
And when you take into account bugs and patches it seems not only are the game makers too ambitious but we gamers are far too forgiving. Apply these same type of cycles to any other product and we'd be talking post mortem in a matter of months. |
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:51 am |
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I am Merz
Guest
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It simply is time for a paradigm shift in software development. An in the software industry, gaming companies have probably the worst development practices.. |
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:24 am |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
You guys talk as if the devs sit around in meetings all day brainstorming, 'how can we come up with new ways to delay the release of our game?'
I for one, am glad when a game gets delayed. It means that the developer and publisher involved are trying to produce a good quality game and release it when it is finished... not when some marketing induced date is set.
Gamers are relentless toward developers. If a dev delays a game we hammer them. If a dev releases a game unfinished and buggy but more or less around the time they said they'd release it, we hammer them (see Dungeon Lords).
Time for us to grow up as a gaming community and stop being so wishy washy with our complaints.
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:59 pm |
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Dajjer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Los Angeles area |
WOW MG, you sure missed the gist of this discussion.
My post was in on way a wishy washy complaint about the delay. Delays are a fact of life for contemporary CRPGs. My point was that with so many snafus that are inherent in CRPG production, perhaps there is a underlying probelm in creating the games we all love to play.
I've taken programming classes and I know that the work is hard and demands almost perfection in order to get things to work. As our games move toward more realistic environments coupled with almost cinematic sounds (voice and music) and add the innumerable end user confirgurations that have to be taken into account, well there are no more chances for error, error is inevitable.
My post was far from bashing. I was postulating that the CRPGs game design and production may be too stagnat and is in need of new approaches (or insight) to creating and getting the game to market. Because what is happening now is not working. Announce, Delay, Delay, Publish, Bug, Patch.
Perhaps our hobby is just too cutting edge and always will be, and we just have to deal with it.
BTW, MG, do a search under my moniker on the Dreamcatcher forums for Dungeon Lords. I was supportive of the game and the game makers. |
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:01 pm |
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Paul999999
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 302
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They should probably keep quiet now until the game has gone gold then they can announce a release date and if it gets delayed then, then you can panic  |
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:21 pm |
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Shimbatha
Village Leader
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 78
Location: Jersey Shore |
Whether or not MadGamer "Missed the gist" of the conversation or not, you have to agree with him...because the man is dead-on right with his post.
Take Oblivion for example. I'm glad I has been pushed back again (For the third time) because it means they are taking their time to produce a quality game straight out of the box. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they pushed Gothic 3 back to 2007 if it meant a stable, bug-free game with all of its parts intact. |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:54 am |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
quote:
Originally posted by Dajjer
My post was far from bashing. I was postulating that the CRPGs game design and production may be too stagnat and is in need of new approaches (or insight) to creating and getting the game to market. Because what is happening now is not working. Announce, Delay, Delay, Publish, Bug, Patch.
If that's what you meant then I stand corrected in that my prvious repsonse doesn't apply to what you wrote.
But I still stand behind the point I make in general. I think I jumped the gun with your post because I read so much complaingin on gaming forums that a game gets delayed, let's complain, a game gets release on time but full of bugs, let's all whine.
Just tired of it and wish the gaming community was at least a little bit less fussy of a crowd because I'm a gamer and while I'm not like that, I'm part of the gaming community and hence part of that gamers-are-fussy perception. But more than that, I perceive game development as a hugely difficult and costly process... with developers and investors/publishers pushing and pulling throughout the development process... and the programmers caught in the middle with ungodly hours and many times almost no thanks at all for all the effort they exeert, financially or otherwise.
So I think its important for gamers to collectively take a position on this particular subject and start supporting devs who make games we like not only with our wallets, but also with our moral support by not whining when a dev extends a release date and instead pour a waterfall of threads saying, 'good decision' and 'Thank you for dedicating yourselves to really trying to make as bug free a game as possible.'
Non-gamers still largely hold that sterotype that gamers are geeks. And when I see all the whining on message boards I can understand why non-gamers still carry that stereotype.
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:23 am |
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Shimbatha
Village Leader
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 78
Location: Jersey Shore |
quote:
Originally posted by TheMadGamer
Non-gamers still largely hold that sterotype that gamers are geeks. And when I see all the whining on message boards I can understand why non-gamers still carry that stereotype.
Which is reason number one why I tend to distance myself from forums. I think the whining about releases being delayed or games being too shallow (Or whatever "whine of the week" is going on in the CRPG community) actually hurts the development of these games. I truly believe that designers dread the negative publicity a bunch of game community "geeks" can generate and put too much focus on appeasing them to "keep them off their back", so to speak.
I have been a PC gamer since 1983, and maybe that is why I feel so satisfied with the current crop of games. I have no need to whine, since we are all living in the land of plenty when it comes to CRPGs. |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:10 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I really couldn't care less what label non-gamers place on me. As for developers, I'm sure they have days where the community drives them mad but a series like Gothic just wouldn't see a third installment without the hardcore fans and sites like this. The Gothic brand has little presence in the US but the evangelism of fans has chipped away, bringing on board more and more players to the point where Gothic 3 is highly anticipated. I'm pretty sure that outweighs some whining.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:43 am |
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Dajjer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Los Angeles area |
quote:
Originally posted by TheMadGamer
Non-gamers still largely hold that sterotype that gamers are geeks. And when I see all the whining on message boards I can understand why non-gamers still carry that stereotype.
Whinning went to a whole new level with Dungeon Lords. From a sociological perseptive it was kind of interesting. The hate that flowed on boards eveywhere was astounding. Did Dungeon Lords start WW2. Was Dungeon Lords the one that lured Adam to eat the apple. Are the Dungeon Lord folks really mimes that program for fun? One poster even called me a bot because I said the game was okay and fun for me to play.
Still, I have no problems with the delays. Actually I have no problem if they announce a set date and then change it. And I love that they are doing this with Gothic 3, When Gothic 2 first came out they said there were no plans for a Gothic 3. Now that there are making it, I'm just so very very happy. I want them to take as long as necessary to get it right. Because if they do, (as I suspect they will) then PB will be 3 for 3 and will move into the top spot as the best CRPG designer in the World. |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:16 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I'm glad you liked Dungeon Lords but from my perspective, it deserved every bit of whining possible and then some.
_________________
Editor @ RPGDot |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:07 am |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
I really couldn't care less what label non-gamers place on me.
Non-gamers don't place any label on *you* personally. They do however place a stereotype on gamers and gaming.
And you should care. Not because you care what some annoymous non-gamer may or may not think, but because it's still somewhat an accurate reflection of how we, the gaming community, still are. I've been a gamer for a long time I'd really like to see the gamer stereotype die.
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
The Gothic brand has little presence in the US but the evangelism of fans has chipped away, bringing on board more and more players to the point where Gothic 3 is highly anticipated. I'm pretty sure that outweighs some whining.
When people anticipating a game are 'let down' because a game they want to play is delayed and react mildly such as, 'dang I was really looking to playing that game' I don't really see that as whining. The whining, at least to me, is the outright hostile reaction to the developer, as if the developer just shot and killed the gamers dog.
When a game is delayed, the first people to wrestle with that reality are the developers... it's the devs who have the most at risk when it comes to the success or failure of their game. The last thing I imagine any developer wants to do is delay their game. Of course, decent developers will do just that if their game isn't finished at the time they originally planned to release it.
_________________
The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar
Last edited by TheMadGamer on Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:42 pm |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
I'm glad you liked Dungeon Lords but from my perspective, it deserved every bit of whining possible and then some.
There's no question that Dungeon Lords was not ready for public consumption. And when I went out and got my copy I wasn't a happy camper either. In fact, DL is probably one of the top 3 worst released CRPGs (in terms of its bugginess and incompleteness) that I have ever experienced... and my gaming days go back to the early 70s.
I got on the DL dev forums and predictably there was an onslought of angry threads. Many threads perfectly justified. But then there were the threads pontificating the merits of, 'releasing a game when it's finished.' It just makes me laugh because when developers do just that, we as gamers turn around and berate them for months on forums. We harp and harp and drum up conspiracy theroies as if the developers are sitting around in meetings brainstorming how to upset as many gamers as possible.
On the Oblivion forums, there are several threads every week that are outright hostile & nasty toward Bethesda for not releasing Oblivion when XBOX 360 went on sale. Just makes me cringe in my chair
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:51 pm |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
quote:
Originally posted by Shimbatha
I think the whining about releases being delayed or games being too shallow (Or whatever "whine of the week" is going on in the CRPG community) actually hurts the development of these games. I truly believe that designers dread the negative publicity a bunch of game community "geeks" can generate and put too much focus on appeasing them to "keep them off their back", so to speak.
It's really hard to say if the 'whining' directly hurts the development of a game. But I would suspect it really could reduce moral.
If you're a gamer worth any salt then you know at least a little bit about the gaming development process. Which is quite ugly. Developers have to deal with marketing pressure from publishers. Marketing constantly pushing for unrealistic dates. And then you have the programmers hammering out code day in and day out. And though I'm sure most of them love their job, the environment is rough and long hours over long periods of time will wear anyone down. Then on top of all that, at the end of months of programming for 18 hours a day seven days a week, a dev. might peak on a forum and just see nasty post after nasty post. It couldn't possibly have a jubilant effect.
quote:
Originally posted by Shimbatha
I have been a PC gamer since 1983, and maybe that is why I feel so satisfied with the current crop of games. I have no need to whine, since we are all living in the land of plenty when it comes to CRPGs.
I've been gaming a long time too. I still rejoice to this day not having to deal with 5.25" floppies that go bad in 2 days.
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:00 pm |
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