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Thief: Deadly Shadows
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RPGDot Forums > Absolutely Off Topic

Author Thread
MoonDragon
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada
   

The freedom in the city comes from the fact that you can enter few houses (a small percentage of actual houses in the city) and loot them. You can also use them as shortcuts to get where you're going without bothering with guards.

As far as missions are concerned, I was just given "a choice" of a second and third mission. A guy basically told me I need two items. Go fetch them. So I guess now I have a freedom to enter those two areas when I'm ready and I can do them in what order I want (gee... should I do the first one first, or the second one first?).

I think this game has a lot of freedom for a console game, but that still does not qualify as freedom in my books. There nothing like the freedom you'd find in games like Deus Ex. Missions are quite linear (e.g. you're going through sewers and you pretty much have to go from room to room until the end). The choice boils down to whether you sneak by the enemies or shoot them dead or knock them out. There aren't really alternative paths through levels. I haven't encountered any moral questions yet, nor any quests that would really make me feel like I have to make a choice and live by it. That may yet change, as I'm only on my third mission, but...

I'll post more as I know more. Or rather when I can finally start playing the game again as I spent 2 hours last night editing stupid ini files. I tried to modify them to make the game look and play better, but now I'm forced to fix the stupid developers' mistakes and basically fix several hundred lines of ini files because the morons hard-coded button and window placements for a 640x480 window size. Well, they hard-coded SOME of the button and window placements, so half my windows and buttons and text display in the center of my 1024x768 window and half display in the top left corner... *sigh*
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Post Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:38 pm
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Badger
Stripey Forest Dweller
Stripey Forest Dweller




Joined: 18 Mar 2002
Posts: 924
Location: UK
   

Thanks Moondragon... it might not be what I wanted to hear, but it is what I needed to know

Badger
Post Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:29 pm
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Overgrown Cat




Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl
   

Certainly Deus Ex has more freeform exploration and choices in finishing missions. Thief series actually never really emphasize choices, but mission based progression, where players have to finish a series of specific tasks. The only way to change your given tasks is choosing different difficulty levels. You also can't choose different ways in dealing with enemies - but very much depend on stealth and silent.

In the T:TDS so far it think objectives are same under different difficulty levels, only demand more loots (30%, 60%, 90%), more special loots, no-combatans kill, etc.

And yes, the newly added freeform stuff in City adds very little to gameplay.

The good things noticed so far:
-Great sound effects & voice acting (unfortunately you need Audigy & above to get the newest EAX supports). As mentioned, occasional comments from Garrett in game and mostly during briefing & debriefing, conversations & comments from guards, & during cut-scenes.

-Atmosphere; eventhough with above average graphics, but combined with dynamic shadows and sound effects, they enough to provide excellent atmosphere (i can give 92% score for this).

-Gameplay; as many reviewers already mentioned the gameplay pretty much unchanged from previous Thief games: still stressing silent & stealth for good skulking around, backstabing & blackjacking, mine & flash bomb throwing, running & hiding, throwing stuffs to distract guard, mugging, pickpocket, get scared when guard or "thing" suddenly show up in your face. One little change is guards can get tired & stop when chasing you (in 20 seconds?).

As usual you start mission with briefing windows and cut-scene, or finish mission with cut-scene.

Level design: Nice; size - smaller and compact, more things to see compare e.g The Dark Project while it's big but a lot more empty rooms and repetitive design . Travel to other City sections through portal-like gateway or door (Xbox hardware limitation?).
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Post Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:51 pm
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Neo_Genesis
The Assassin
The Assassin




Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 3050
Location: The Netherlands
   

I played the demo... spectecular game... although i have a problem.

Spoiler:
i'm in the second level of the demo (where you don't get any tips). i completed every object, except going trough the front gate. no i walk trough the doors of the castle. but nothing happens. or do they mean, the real gate, where you start the game?

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Always wondering how it would be...
Post Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:14 pm
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Solid as a Rock




Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot
   

Just walk back to the spot where you started the mission.

I only played the demo (a little short for over 400Mb). I like all the things the people say when you put out a torch for example or when you make noise and the citizens run away to get the guards (you sniped them all out, but the citizen doesn't know that. ).
I also like the movement options and all the ways to make it dark (putting out candles and so) and the weapons, like waterarrows and flashbombs
But...It isn't really free-space. You have strict objectives that you have to accomplish, that's too bad.
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Post Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:43 pm
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Late Night Spook




Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot
   

Well, the demo is a level that's exactly like the old Thief games levels... Thief always was mission-based. The weapons are basically the same they were in the old Therf games as well. Try putting out the torch on a torch-bearing guard with a water arrow, such fun. And just like in the old games, you can wipe away the blood stains with water arrows.

I for my part am very happy that the basic game remained just like it was - because when I think 'Thief', I want more of the Thief 1 and 2 greatness, not something totally different. Freedom is not what I expect from 'Thief' - I expect a good scare from rather trivial things.
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Post Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:03 am
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Overgrown Cat




Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl
   

Something strange seem to happening with the difficulty settings in TTDS: they won't stuck if you reloading a save game. I didn't notice the possible big bug and assumed that different opponents dealing different amount of damage. The bug affecting both PC & Xbox versions.

quote:
Here's what I did, so others can try if they want.

In default.ini, I pumped up the guard's hearing to 11.63, on Expert. I started the first Castle level at Expert, and as the guard is talking to the peasant, I save it. Then I step out from behind the cart onto the stone and jump. Each of the two characters immediately goes to full alert, and charge at me.

I reload the save, step out from behind the cart and jump on the stone...nothing. They don't hear me at all. So this confirms that the bug does exist.

So, I make the modifications Bishop_tx suggests (both Expert and Normal to 11.63), and try again.

Same thing happens when I jump before loading--guards go on full alert and charge. When a reload and try again, the guard and peasant DO hear me. They don't go to full alert though. They are at the 'what did I hear?' level, starting to search around. I tried it a couple times just to be sure, and it was consistant.

Summarizing:

Before any reload: Guards go to full alert and charge

After reload, normally: Guards don't hear you at all

After reload, using Bishop's method: Guards hear you and go on mild alert


quote:
I just checked for the bug on xbox. It's there. I restarted St. Edgar's on Expert, saved, got the attention of the Hammerites by jumping on pavement, and got pounded for 6-8 hp at a time (depending on overhead swing or not -- I tested it 3 times).

Then I loaded my save, had to kiss the hammerites to get thier attention, and they hit me for a measly 3-4 hp at a time.


http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84368&page=2&pp=25
http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php?showtopic=211128&st=30
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Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:28 pm
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Blade Runner




Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix
   

This game has tons of HP Lovecraft influenced level design.

Loved the Dagon fish-god like level.

The Cradle level is one of the greatest levels in any game ever!!! For the first time, a game has scared the living daylights out of me. The audio and ability to force-feedback pick locks while looking over your shoulder just adds to the tension and horror of this level.

The game has a quest system that is like DX:IW. There are even 3 factions just like IW. The game is more like IW than the old thief games because of the City that you roam around...this has actually improved the game in my opinion. It would be cool if you would restart your missions(maybe you can) and change the difficulty level like the old games. 50% of the game happens outside of the levels...the city is HUGE!!! The rag-doll phsyics are actually worse than IW. When you kill someone they fold in half backwords. You can still chuck most items 10 miles like in IW. This I like, cause it is fun to throw an Urn 200 feet and smack a fish-demon in the head. But when you run into stuff they act a little more realistic. Garret cannot throw bodies like Alex D...which is appropriate. I love knocking people out and letting them slide down a few flights of stairs. Shooting people in the mouth with Moss-arrows is always amusing. There are still tons of load times. The levels are bigger though. Things do get glitchy when using the Ninja gloves...sometimes you have to reload. Like IW my biggest complaint is no swimming. I give this game a solid 9.
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard
Post Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:21 pm
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Overgrown Cat




Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl
   

Yep, Return to the Haunted Cathedral is nothing compare to the new Cradle level. It is atmospherically spooky and makes you feel paranoid.
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Post Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:21 am
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Blade Runner




Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix
   

Damn XBOX. I just deleted my 2nd save. Not five minutes later while I am doing a save my system crashes and I lose my only game save. I was at the part where you return the 5 items to their resting places...probably the very end of the game. Now, I "GET" to start over.

as Charlton Heston would say in Planet of the Apes..."DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!!"

So frustrating, as I was just saying to myself...this is one of the greatest games I have ever played. Well, I guess I'll start over and try to get 100% on every level. Besides, I have not figured out how to do the Faction side quests like shooting moss-arrows at corner-stones etc.
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard
Post Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:16 pm
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Badger
Stripey Forest Dweller
Stripey Forest Dweller




Joined: 18 Mar 2002
Posts: 924
Location: UK
   

And you know the worst of it Kengo?

Draw the curtains and turn the lights down low, not off mind you..just low. If you don't have a dimmer switch then light a couple of candles. Now look at your Xbox Kengo... can you see it? Nope, that's not your imagination... It's smiling!

Badger
Post Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:47 pm
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