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Deathbliss
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 09 Aug 2003
Posts: 42
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I frequent the main site forums for Morrowind, but I found you guys so I thought I'd see if anyone made any progress here. Basically with custom plugins you may experience annoying things like what is commonly called "doubling". This is when you open a door and there is extra door revealed, or things are too dark because of doubled lights, etc. This IS NOT caused by the plugins, but by how Morrowind saves games. So the obvious solution is to make a save game cleaner that removes all conflicts and doubling. I was just wondering if anyone over here got as fed up and me and made something like this -
- Deathbliss
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Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:43 am |
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cfmdobbie
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1859
Location: London, England |
Welcome to RPGDot! 
Nope, I'm afraid I've never had that problem myself.
You know, even though you state plainly that it's not a plugin problem, I still suspect them!  Things like lights are static - there should be no reason for lights, statics, class/race stats etc to be moved into the save game, as they never get altered in-game. Something very odd must be going on if that's happened. 
But maybe I've overlooked something. Do many people have this problem, do you know?
_________________
Charlie Dobbie
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Moderator of the Morrowind/Oblivion Forums= |
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Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:29 pm |
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Deathbliss
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 09 Aug 2003
Posts: 42
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Hmmm... Well I'll give ya some reading material to start:
http://morepumaman.freehomepage.com/support-doubling.html
http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=1614491&fpart=1
There is a small group of us experiencing this problem. In my latest plugin, cleaned in Tesame and conflict tested as well it occurs every time I save. This latest version of my little home is simply a tree, a custom platform I made myself, and all the chests and crates I need to store everything. The plugin alteres no terrain, nor any aspect of Morrowind - just adds this stuff. The latest addition I added was a belt of CE feather and a Levitation potion on the ground. That's the only thing doubling at the moment. It used to be my sword - so this leads me to believe doubling occurs more with the most recently added items, and items laid out in the open instead of inside a chest are fr more susecptable to doubling. You can test this if you want to see what doubling is... Just add a house somewhere, add a potion on the ground outside, and play it. Pick up the potion, make a new save game that you can delete after the test, and save it. I'm pretty sure the potion will double every time you save. It doesn't move mind you - another potion comes into existance somehow in the exact same spot. Well I'm pretty sure that's what would haoppen, knowing my luck there are still more varibales to this issue to consider. But no, it isn't a plugin problem. Especially when a person as experienced as me with TESCS is careful enough not to alter anything, and to add only single copies of everything.
Anyhow I hope this will help you understand everything -
- Deathbliss
_________________
Fight the RIAA!
Evolution is just further proof of the fact,
That mankind is willing to believe in anything,
As long as it doesn't have to believe in God.
Last edited by Deathbliss on Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:32 am |
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cfmdobbie
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1859
Location: London, England |
(ElderScrolls isn't responding for me? But the other document is good reading.)
Ah, I'm with you now - it a side-effect of allowing Morrowind to see several different versions of the same mod at different times.
I guess it must run some kind of hash against the mod to identify it, so an edited mod (in development) gets thought of as two different mods in some way. Or maybe each edited mod gets a semi-unique id, assigned by the editor?
The save game file contains the positions of the items from the first version (because you interacted with them), so when loading the second version the original items are left there but the new items are *also* added, as the items seem to have been added simultaneously from two different mods.
Your duplication-on-save is described in a different way in the document; are you sure the objects will duplicate on save, without loading a new version of the mod? If they do, that'll be a logic bug related to the previous.
Fascinating! I'd not heard of this problem before. I look forward to more information on it!
_________________
Charlie Dobbie
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Moderator of the Morrowind/Oblivion Forums= |
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Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:24 am |
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Deathbliss
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 09 Aug 2003
Posts: 42
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I think I fixed the link - I just had to delete the last part for non-members to access the thread directly. Oh my observations on this matter are simply that - I would defer to Puma Man for the expertise.
- Deathbliss
_________________
Fight the RIAA!
Evolution is just further proof of the fact,
That mankind is willing to believe in anything,
As long as it doesn't have to believe in God. |
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Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:49 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by cfmdobbie
The save game file contains the positions of the items from the first version (because you interacted with them), so when loading the second version the original items are left there but the new items are *also* added, as the items seem to have been added simultaneously from two different mods.
I've seen this once, myself. Merely changing the date on the mod caused the items to duplicate. I don't see where it's that big of a deal, since the only things that were affected for me were duplication of mod-placed items I had already picked up. I saw no changes to any items I hadn't touched, nor did I see any changes to the environment. Of course, that's not to say I've "seen it all", either.
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=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:18 pm |
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Deathbliss
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 09 Aug 2003
Posts: 42
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It's a big deal when you pick up a potion ypu placed, and it appears there again and again and again. It's a big deal if you open a door, then have to open another in it's place. It's a big deal when chests that you placed in the plugin mysterioulsy dissapear, or if you placed say a sword in your plugin and you picked it in-game, and the sword keeps coming back. It's a big deal when instead of one NPC or creature - you get dozens of the exact same thing.
Get the idea?
- Deathbliss
_________________
Fight the RIAA!
Evolution is just further proof of the fact,
That mankind is willing to believe in anything,
As long as it doesn't have to believe in God. |
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Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:59 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
As I said, in the instance that I had there was only duplication of previously picked up items. I didn't get multiple doors. I didn't get disappearing chests. I didn't get multiple NPCs. I didn't get multiple monsters. Overall, it wasn't a big deal. Get the idea?
Your symptoms seem quite a bit worse than mine, so I can see where something that has been only a minor irritation for me would be a major pain for you.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:43 am |
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Deathbliss
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 09 Aug 2003
Posts: 42
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Hey man I meant no offence! It's just that this has been bugging me a lot lately - which I'm sure you can tell - but I'm glad it's not bothering you!
Yeah I'm just using .esm files for now - no issues - YET...
- Deathbliss
_________________
Fight the RIAA!
Evolution is just further proof of the fact,
That mankind is willing to believe in anything,
As long as it doesn't have to believe in God. |
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Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:50 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
I noticed the doubling issue, but so far no one here or any visitor to this forums suggested a solution for it. The problem mostly bothering people who use many plug-ins or mods that add a lot of creatures/NPCs, or use house mods, etc.
I believe one of the reason Puma man and few others changed their mods to using esm instead of esp is to avoid the doubling issue. There are some advantages and disadvantages though. You better ask puma man about that, i remember many moons ago he discussed the issue at official board. |
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Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:18 pm |
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