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| What religion are you? |
| Jewish |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
| Christian |
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50% |
[ 11 ] |
| Athiest |
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27% |
[ 6 ] |
| Budhist |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| don't know |
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13% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 22 |
Bartacus
Il Buono

Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
quote: Originally posted by Hexy
Isn't it required, or at least more enforced for the women to wear those... scarves (which is the correct word?) in Islam, which is why it's worse for muslims? It's not as enforced to wear a huge cross necklace or anything in Christianity.
No, they aren't required by Islam. The few I know about Islam is that fundamenticly it's a peacefull and non-repressing religion. It's however wrongfully used by some men. Al Qaeda quotes parts of the Koran, but they give you half of a sentence so that it sounds warhungry. When you complete the sentence it's more peacefull. The shawl, the veil, is more of a protection against desert wind.(not sandstorms -> a veil wouldn't hold)
In western countries it is a fashion thing for them and it is also used by some for showing that they won't integrate. Now in France they are not talking about total forbidment of the veil, just it isn't allowed to wear it for public job.(governemental jobs -> this means also teachers as wel as someone working on the department of finance or foreign affairs.) _________________ Moderator and Council Magician of the RPGDot Shadows
member of the Sports Fans Forum
Leader's Right Hand at the Gothic Rogues
NFG member |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:32 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer

Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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Why is it that most people think that one can only get to God through religion? (I mean religion as an institutionalized system) Anyway,
quote: Originally posted by Joeman
It's not something they choose.
Yes, it is. Whether they give up their "choosing rights," though, is up to them.
quote: Originally posted by Joeman
Atheists like myself are people who don't have herds mentality and are capable of independent critical thinking.
No offense intended, but go study some anthropology. Without herd mentality, there's no modern society. Heck, without herd mentaiity, there is hardly any society.
quote: Originally posted by Chekote
No offence but someone who is so completely Atheist is just as self righteous as someone who is Uber Religeous.
Self-righteousness is a consequence of personality, not religion.
quote: Originally posted by Chekote
Faith is fine, Doubt is fine, but no one knows for sure.
No offense intended, but: speak for yourself.
quote: Originally posted by Joeman
I know very few people would even study another religion or listening to the argument of atheists with an open mind.
Oh, but Christians theologists have been studying other religions for quite some time.
quote: Originally posted by Joeman
That's mainly because of arrogance and fear
And what's not to say that atheists are not "listening to the arguments" of the religious because of arrongance and fear?
quote: Originally posted by Val
I just don't like going to church
Don't worry. Going to church doesn't make you any more a Christian than going to the garage makes you a car.
quote: Originally posted by Joeman
That means God is maybe plural
Yep, God is plural alright, as all Christians believe (or should believe).
quote: Originally posted by Joeman
The followers of the pack are the lowest of the low.
The followers of the pack are the pack.
quote: Originally posted by Joeman
A lot of things that have gone wrong in the world and throughout history can be attributed to herd mentality. Without herd mentality, there is no Nazi Germany. A lot of wars and conflicts would have been avoided.
For one who exalts research and open mindeness so much, I'm frankly surprised at your lack of knowledge in history and anthropology.
quote: Originally posted by Korplem
Atheism is more or less the same as a religion because it takes faith to believe that there is no god. So, in my opinion, is in no position to insult another religion for having faith in a god.
I'm not atheist but...
* applauds Korplem *
quote: Originally posted by Joeman
After you do that, you could still be a christian (although chances are you won't)
Since you seem to be dissing Christianity so much, here's a quote I think is appropriate:
"There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions."--GK Chesterton
quote: Originally posted by Remus
Good vs Evil is concept that overstayed its wellcome
Ah, good to hear that! Excuse me, I'm now going to found a Neo-Nazi political party, then.
quote: Originally posted by Lintra
The choices are are too limiting
They are terribly so. He should at least have added an "Other" option, as Roach said.
quote: Originally posted by Lanael
who wonder why people need some virtual ( non"measurable?" ) entity to answer metaphysics questions.
Because God is, by definition, not "measurable." |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:01 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
quote: Originally posted by goshuto
Going to church doesn't make you any more a Christian than going to the garage makes you a car.
This quote is absolutely priceless. A wonderful statement. _________________ Jaz |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:08 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer

Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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quote: Originally posted by Jaz
This quote is absolutely priceless. A wonderful statement.
Glad you liked. Credit where it's due, though: a fellow named Laurence Peter
said it. Don't remember if he said it in those exact words. _________________ "Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:11 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor


Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote: Originally posted by goshuto
No offense intended, but go study some anthropology. Without herd mentality, there's no modern society. Heck, without herd mentaiity, there is hardly any society.
True, pack-mentality is part of the basic human instincts, religions exploit this quite relentlessly.
quote:
Because God is, by definition, not "measurable."
This is what I don't get about religion. Everyone has their own sense of what a god is, and how it should be defined, and everyone believes they are right.
quote:
Why is it that most people think that one can only get to God through religion? (I mean religion as an institutionalized system) Anyway,
Because this is what the main religions promote?
quote:
Ah, good to hear that! Excuse me, I'm now going to found a Neo-Nazi political party, then.
That wouldn't make you evil. That would make you an extreme nationalist with a conservative mentality. There's a difference. _________________ Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:58 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes

Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote: Originally posted by Remus
It's alright, Val. You don't have to forced yourself to go to church. Even missing the chance to read scriptures or say prayers isn't a big deal either, so don't insist on doing it or feel quilty about it. It's good to try to live right, and maybe leading a happy and sober lives. Satan and demon are overhyped adversaries, Good vs Evil is concept that overstayed its wellcome.
Keep the "Fallen from grace" mantra.
1. Who says I forced myself to go in the first place?
2. Actually, I do consider praying and studying the scriptures to be a big deal.
3. Satan is overhyped? More like underhyped.
4. Good vs. evil is a concept that is still valid today.
quote: Originally posted by goshuto
Don't worry. Going to church doesn't make you any more a Christian than going to the garage makes you a car.
Heh, that's a good way of putting how I feel about it. _________________ Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:15 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
quote: Originally posted by goshuto
quote: Originally posted by Chekote
Faith is fine, Doubt is fine, but no one knows for sure.
No offense intended, but: speak for yourself.
I enjoyed your views but this one is rediculous. "Faith" is called "faith" and not "know" for a reason. If there was actual undifutible proof there is a God, whoever has it hasn't shared it. I can speak for all mankind and say there is no proof of God, no need to speak for myself.
I personally have faith there is a God. If I was walking along the beach and found a watch I wouldn't believe all the parts just happned to fall together and create something as complicated as a watch, and I don't believe that something as complicated as the universe and life just happened to fall together.
From what I understand all the matter in the universe seems to expand and contract in a never ending cycle. When fully contracted it has been turmed the yellum, the yellom explodes in a big bang and expands outwards at a constantly faster pace. Where did the matter come from? Why does it do what it does? That doesn't even really matter, all religions (that worship a single God) see God as the creator of life. We know pretty much how our life was created scientiffically, so there can be no true athiest, your God is the matter itself. If there was no matter, there would be no you, that is undisputible. You have to believe that the matter created you, and the matter would then be your Creator. Creator is another name for God.
Just because you do not believe in the Bible, and how it portays God, doesn't rule out the existanse of something bigger than us out there. I do not believe in the Bible. The old testiment is laughable. The book of Job contradicts everything the gospels say. How can I believe in an All-knowing compasionate God that loves me and is good, and also enters into petty and childish competitions with Satan (who he created) and murders a loyal followers family and destroys his life? That is as crazy as people who "know" there is a God, and do not just have faith.
There where over fifty gospels written within 200 years after Jesus died. The early Christians picked 4. One gospel had Jesus kill a kid when he was a kid after he lost a game of kick-ball. All the four of the gospels that where chosen were written by a man, and chosen by a man to be the NEw Testiment. I do not have enough faith in mankind to beielve that 1) Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John did not include their own prejudices and mistakes and misinterpritations into the Gospels they wrote 2) any faith in mankind in general.
Most people are not smart enough to know that the passing lane is not for cruising in, how am I supposed to have faith that mankind got it right with the Bible? I believe in Jesus. Not as God, but as the son of God. His underlining message seems right to me. Do on to others as you would have others do on to you. Thats a pretty good message. I really like the "Good Samaritan." But to take the Bible as the word of God is asking people to have way to much faith in mankind. I belive there is a God, and I believe Jesus's message is worth following, so I am a Christian, but belong to no denomination. _________________ Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:12 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life

Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
An interesting collection, but I'm obviously quite biased. Two quick things. To those who want to use logic and critical thinking to defend their position, you CAN'T. I teach courses in that and I CAN'T!! Study your Philosophy which I also teach in conjunction with this and you may begin to understand why there is no proof possible one way or the other, so any comment you make has an inherent logical fallacy as a part of its structure. The Appeal to Ignorance (Ad Ignoratium) springs to mind as an obvious one.
Secondly, Roqua, if you want to debate the consistency of the Bible, I've already done it several times in various forums here, (even Myrthos read some of them and joined in ), so check them out first and get back to me. Sauron and I enjoyed ourselves the last time it happened, though as usual, the arguments eventually start going round in circles. (That's cause you don't get round squares)
OK, the joke was terrible, but what else is new. Val is always saying how bad my jokes are and as usual, she's correct!!  _________________ If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:59 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
You're a good guy Corwin. You seem like you would make a good Pastor. I've never heard of a crpg playing pastor before. Do you tend to play Clerics?
Your website link is active x crazy. I had to click accept 50 million times, if I haden't of read that you are a man of the cloth I would of thought it was trying to put spyware on my machine. _________________ Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:35 am |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler

Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
Wow, I never realized that you were a pastor. Roqua is right, a crpg playing pastor is a rare find indeed! _________________ If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:48 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life

Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Roqua, weird about the website, it has NO active X components. It doesn't display well in some browsers, but does in IE. I just clicked on the link now and went straight in. It has no ads or anything, so it isn't a problem on the website. Oh, I almost never play clerics. I prefer mages with massive offensive spells. Just ask all those people here who play online with me!!  _________________ If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:43 am |
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cfmdobbie
High Emperor


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1859
Location: London, England |
quote: Originally posted by corwin
To those who want to use logic and critical thinking to defend their position, you CAN'T. I teach courses in that and I CAN'T!! Study your Philosophy which I also teach in conjunction with this and you may begin to understand why there is no proof possible one way or the other, so any comment you make has an inherent logical fallacy as a part of its structure.
Hence "faith".  _________________ Charlie Dobbie
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Moderator of the Morrowind/Oblivion Forums= |
Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:59 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life

Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Precisely, but as you know, I try to avoid making any religious statements as much as possible, except in clearly marked religious discussions, and even then I'm careful. Offending people is not my style. _________________ If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:04 pm |
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Pikkon
A Hadou Master And A Skilled Thief

Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 2325
Location: Where the sea is salt and the pool is not... |
I'm Jewish
Wow, I never knew there are so many strains in the Christian religion...
I mean, we have 2 or 3 strains in our religion...
I don't think fighting over a Religion is a very smart thing to do, just except the fact that not everyone believe in what you believe...
Religion people will say the atheist are wrong and that after death they will know it and the atheist people will say they are right and that after death they won’t know anything
BTW: you forgot the Moslem people... What about Nobody?!?!
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:02 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer

Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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quote: Originally posted by Roqua
I enjoyed your views but this one is rediculous. "Faith" is called "faith" and not "know" for a reason. If there was actual undifutible proof there is a God, whoever has it hasn't shared it. I can speak for all mankind and say there is no proof of God, no need to speak for myself.
Heh, I knew that one would generate reactions like that. It's just that in my personal view, faith and knowledge can be interchangeable. I do not agree with Chekote's "but nobody knows" part, so I reacted to it. I don't want to sound like I think I'm the owner of the truth or anything like that (and believe me, I did try to think of another say of saying that), but it's just that my faith in God is so great I actually consider it knowledge. Just like you have "faith" atoms exist (have you ever seen one?), or like some have faith that Duke Nukem Forever will go gold some day. Or something like that.
quote: Originally posted by Roqua
We know pretty much how our life was created scientiffically, so there can be no true athiest, your God is the matter itself.
Actually, we don't. Some theories say that life forms "randomly spawned from a soup of molecules." I actually consider that an insult to my intelligence. But some scientists believe in that. To each his own. Heck, we can't even properly define "life" yet.
quote: Originally posted by Roqua
The book of Job contradicts everything the gospels say. How can I believe in an All-knowing compasionate God that loves me and is good, and also enters into petty and childish competitions with Satan (who he created) and murders a loyal followers family and destroys his life?
Did you actually read the end of that book? And it wasn't "petty and childish competitions." Read it carefully. And do not quote it out of context.
quote: Originally posted by Roqua
All the four of the gospels that where chosen were written by a man, and chosen by a man to be the NEw Testiment. I do not have enough faith in mankind to beielve that 1) Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John did not include their own prejudices and mistakes and misinterpritations into the Gospels they wrote 2) any faith in mankind in general.
You see, the bible works (for Christians) is because it was inspired by God. Written by men, of course, but inspired by him. So, not men. God. If it was just merely written by men, with no "help" from above, it would suck, I agree with you on that one. _________________ "Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:28 pm |
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