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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
But it's also an RPG.
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:58 pm |
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~NOBODY~
The One And Only
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 1824
Location: Vivec, Jobasha's Rare Books |
I hadv a demo & a review in a journal somewhere: from what they write: it's not very good. |
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Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:28 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Yeah, well here's what I think of them: 
They don't know what they're talking about. Check out the Gamespy, Gamespot, and/or PC Gamer previews.
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:36 pm |
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~NOBODY~
The One And Only
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 1824
Location: Vivec, Jobasha's Rare Books |
I don't like Sci-Fi, and I don't think it's "original settings" |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:12 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Well, okay. You have your opinion and I'll have mine. I think we can agree on that. 
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:45 pm |
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~NOBODY~
The One And Only
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 1824
Location: Vivec, Jobasha's Rare Books |
quote:
Originally posted by MageofFire
Well, okay. You have your opinion and I'll have mine. I think we can agree on that.
yeah, the best way... |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 3:49 pm |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
If sci-fi settings don't have the potential to be original, I'm not sure what does. I've often wanted to see more historical RPGs, especially one set in ancient Greece during the Greek-Persian wars or a serious rendition of Homer's Iliad.
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Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:24 am |
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~NOBODY~
The One And Only
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 1824
Location: Vivec, Jobasha's Rare Books |
Never heard of a good RPG in that setting. IMO, it's because it makes a lot of restrictions for developers. Also it needs time to research these periods. Anyway, there're some of good Strategies in this setting. |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:13 pm |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
quote:
Originally posted by ~NOBODY~
Never heard of a good RPG in that setting. IMO, it's because it makes a lot of restrictions for developers. Also it needs time to research these periods. Anyway, there're some of good Strategies in this setting.
Fallout 1 and 2, Deus Ex, System Shock 1 and 2, etc. Even the Wizardries and Might & Magic series have a bit of sci-fi mixed in with the fantasy. Quite a few good sci-fi RPGs. But it is less used than fantasy. I don't see how sci-fi or historical settings restrict developers. I'd be more inclined to believe any game attached to a brand name like D&D or Tolkienesque fantasy restricts developers, because they must conform to canon and player's expectations. Research can help add detail and credibility to their work as well as exposing them to new ideas and stimulating their own. It seems to me many RPGs suffer from a lack of creativity and new ideas, repeatedly using the "save-the-world-from-the-evil-menace" plot. Developers need time to plan out and work on a game--and part of this should include research. Creativity isn't created ex nihilo.
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Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:38 am |
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~NOBODY~
The One And Only
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 1824
Location: Vivec, Jobasha's Rare Books |
1-I meant Historical. Not sci-fi. I don't like Sci-fi in General, but Fallout is cool. About restriction, they do. It's easier to make a world map in a fantasy game, than use one from real life. Oh, M&M... Are you crazy to call this true?..
2-About save-the-world..., it's something people got used to, and changing it will make people furious. Not all people, but most. I don't think that you'll play a game in which the goal is to get an apple from a tree. |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:51 am |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
quote:
Originally posted by ~NOBODY~
1-I meant Historical. Not sci-fi. I don't like Sci-fi in General, but Fallout is cool. About restriction, they do. It's easier to make a world map in a fantasy game, than use one from real life. Oh, M&M... Are you crazy to call this true?..
Yeah, Fallout isn't typical sci-fi...
1. I still don't see any good reasons for why historical RPGs are more restrictive. If you want to argue they're more restrictive because they have to relate to "real" history, then I invoke creative license. Because a game might be based on history or be inspired by history does not mean it needs to conform 100% to real history. It can follow history closely (and sometimes it's better if it does, because historical events can lose their significance if someone misinterprets them), but I won't fault it, unless the creators bastardize it.
For example, "Braveheart" is historical in its setting, but the movie significantly diverges from the real events. But it's a good movie. Even The Lord of the Rings draws on historical material, such as with the horse folk of Rohan, who are based largely on Viking or early Germanic/Gothic cultures. They have that extra feeling of authenticity, because the facts and details add up. I don't see why game makers should be free from this responsibility, because we pay a lot more for a game than a movie and thus should expect similar, if not better, quality for what we pay.
Your map example doesn't make sense. Harder to use a real map than a fantasy map for a game? Wouldn't this depend on what the creators have in mind? And what virtue does a fantasy map have that excludes the creators from having to fill in the detail a fantasy map would need, anyway?
Look up the earlier M&M series. They take place in a world on a spacestation. And M&M VI has blaster rifles, sunken pyramid spaceships, aliens, etc. Those are sci-fi elements.
quote:
2-About save-the-world..., it's something people got used to, and changing it will make people furious. Not all people, but most. I don't think that you'll play a game in which the goal is to get an apple from a tree.
And not changing it will make people bored. If we take a look at the deluge of comic book movies that have come out recently, finally the flood turned to a trickle, and rave reviews became mediocre, and fans apathetic. I enjoyed "Spider-Man" and "X-Men 2" as much as anyone else, was less impressed with "Daredevil," and haven't bothered to see "The Hulk" because I feel I've gotten my comic movie fix. You can only play the same card so many times. I'm not saying we need to eliminate "save-the-world" plots, but they could be less blatant about it, and concentrate on other plots. Check out Aristotle's Poetics if you don't believe me. There are plenty of other stories people care about and are much more relevant than "Dr. X wants to destroy the world with his laser-gun-of-doom." If humans had recurrent amnesia, the "save-the-world" plots might work better.
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Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:38 pm |
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~NOBODY~
The One And Only
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 1824
Location: Vivec, Jobasha's Rare Books |
Oh can you write sooo long posts? Don't you get bored?
Anyway:
1-a-If they aren't based on real events, it makes the game not as good.
b-The map restricts developers a lot. It's more likely that people will play a game which has a lot of detailed, new & DIFFERENT teritories. It's hard to make an interesting game when it's only in the desert.
c-I liked Morrowind because I learnt a lot of its history & geography. It's really boring to play in a world you already know 
2-I hate comics, so I can't talk a lot about them. About save-the-world, I also think that it would be better to make a change. But it also gives developers a lot of work to think of an ending. Also there're a lot of games with alternate endings.
Also, I don't think that LotR is historical...
Sorry for M&M. But it's still more simple fantasy.
BTW: Are you a girl? |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:53 pm |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
quote:
Originally posted by ~NOBODY~
Oh can you write sooo long posts? Don't you get bored?
No. And I type fast.
quote:
Anyway:
1-a-If they aren't based on real events, it makes the game not as good.
How?
quote:
b-The map restricts developers a lot. It's more likely that people will play a game which has a lot of detailed, new & DIFFERENT teritories. It's hard to make an interesting game when it's only in the desert.
Where did this "desert" business come from? I can think of dozens of spots in history where games could take place and probably be interesting. If "detailed, new & DIFFERENT territories" includes all the rehash that has been present in fantasy games lately, I'll pass. Like I said, I don't believe creativity comes ex nihilo, that is, from nothing. Imagination only works for so long unless you feed it new and different ideas. I don't know of any writers who sit down and write an entire novel or story in one sitting, with all ideas, characters, and plot and subplots fully developed, ready to appear on the pages in pristine condition. These take work which includes research, thinking, and rewriting. In the case of devs, it takes designing, implementation, testing, and the cycle goes round-and-round until features are as desired. This is standard development practice at most companies, as I understand it.
quote:
c-I liked Morrowind because I learnt a lot of its history & geography. It's really boring to play in a world you already know
How much do you know about ancient Greece, Rome, Japan, China, Scandinavia, Britain, France, Ireland, etc.? Morrowind does have a nicely done history and setting, but it's a mix of Roman culture/history + high fantasy. Part of that fresh feeling comes from the infusion of new ideas and synthesis.
quote:
2-I hate comics, so I can't talk a lot about them. About save-the-world, I also think that it would be better to make a change. But it also gives developers a lot of work to think of an ending. Also there're a lot of games with alternate endings.
Also, I don't think that LotR is historical...
Like I've said, the developers are already in for an incredible amount of work in the first place. Programming, designing, writing, scripting, art, and project coordination are no easy tasks. They never signed up for easy jobs, but one that pays, and hopefully, they enjoy. RPG developers also undertake an even greater task in that they usually have less funding, resources, team members, programming, and sales than other game types. If they wanted to work on easier development projects, they could go work on FPS's, strategy games, gambling games, sports games, movie games, etc., because those are more popular and profitable. That they don't says much about their dedication.
quote:
Sorry for M&M. But it's still more simple fantasy.
It's mostly fantasy, but it has a sci-fi undercurrent. I never said it makes it bad, but I do think it's important to note. I love the M&M games as much as anyone else.
quote:
BTW: Are you a girl?
Nope.
_________________
Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:38 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
How about a modern day RPG?
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:31 pm |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
How about a stone age setting?
That would take care of the dialogue and the plot
Cave man 1: "Uhhg!"
Cave man 2:"Grar!"
The cave men jump around a fire and throw stones at it... when it rains and the fire goes out the the game is over 
_________________
If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:04 am |
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