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Future Engineer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Far away from anything that's far away |
| My RPG skills (or lack of them) |
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First of all... Arx isn't really a RPG... it's more of an adventure game masked in RPG technics. Morrowind is a RPG, and so are Ultimas, NetHack, Angband etc. In these games, this Akbaa rock thing wouldn't have mattered this much, because they are TRUE RPGs where anything could have a meaning, like in real life (this sentence uncovers the fact that I have no life  ). And in these games the main plot wouldn't have the same pressure in gameplay (well okay, most Ultimas probably do). But in a game like Arx, this is only frustrating at best.
Never fear though, said the ole' adventurer (or madventurer in this case), as I plodded through the first levels again, and luckily found my Akbaa rocks... Finished the game yesterday in fact...but I wouldn't play it again. If only games like NetHack / Angband were transformed into such atmospheric 1st person games as Morrowind / Arx. Now that would be something...
And for no reason at all (besides it being a great looking emoticon) I give you: 
Well, if you must, I'm mad at Arx ending... what the hell am I gonna play now?
Oh, NSNightStalker... I accidentally found the stairs you were referring to... and yes, I realized that I solved the puzzle a bit too early... But seriously, where is the second note? Still gotta know. 
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"Ooooh, fishy fishy fishy FISH! ...And it followed me, wherever I did go..." |
Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:24 am |
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Red
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 282
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Um, your defition of RPG is totally wrong. Look at it's Pen and paper antics. I've never replayed a PnP game (well, except maybe to be the DM that time...) The point of the RPG is to convay a unique experience which reacts to how the player interects with the world he's offored. Not just to generate random monsters to the player.
For a proper immersion youččll need a unique storyline, and in most context this means that the game won't necessarely be that great on replayability - although of course there are exceptions to all that.
You're describing a statistical game: Fight monster X to gain XP to fight monster Y better. |
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Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:47 pm |
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NSNightStalker
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 17
Location: Texas, USA |
Does anyone lock their door? I wonder if that will prevent the chicken incident. |
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Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:33 pm |
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Future Engineer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Far away from anything that's far away |
| Definitions schmefinitions... |
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RED, you may have a point there, truly enough... It's just that RPGs to me have always been about taking on a role, hence the big R. To me RPGing is not just another adventure, it's the idea of getting into someone elses head, leading a different life. This is how I've always played PnPs with my buddies too, we've always had a very basic plot but the playing starts when the dynamics of the world kick in... I've ended up playing RPGs the wrong way it seems? But in this perspective, I agree that I should be more careful when I say that some games aren't RPGs and some are...
And more to the point...when I buy a PC game, I expect it to have at least some replayability, otherwise there's little point to doshing out 40-50 bucks on a game that you play thru in a matter of weeks, never to return to it again. It would be no different from those crappy "interactive video"-thingys when CD-ROMs came out...that was ugly...I mean, Fantasmagoria...forget about it!
And no, I'm not comparing Arx to Fantasmagoria that would be brutal sacrilege...
_________________
"Ooooh, fishy fishy fishy FISH! ...And it followed me, wherever I did go..." |
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Mon Jan 27, 2003 7:01 am |
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Kris
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 25
Location: Mundaring, West Australia |
Spoiler.
Just in case it's relevant to anyone else who has trouble collecting all five mini meteors - I arrived at the finish with only 4 so had to go back and hunt for the missing one.
There were 3 in various spots in the cult temple under the pub (I'd overlooked one of them) and two more in the final Ylside bunker just before the last showdown. |
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Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:36 pm |
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Red
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 282
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Well, the difference between phatasmagoria (other then sucking pretty damn badly) is that you're stuck playing that guy's role, where in an RPG you can choose the role you play (even though the storyline stays basically the same).
Admitably there's pretty limited stuff you can really choose to do in Arx and all you do barely has any impact on the game (the big impact is how you solve the whole snake women/human deal which I find somewhat boring specially since from the start you're told that "these are matters of Arx, not of the guardian" and whatnot...)
As for PnP, if you played it only to roll dice, you missed the entire point, though I hope you had a lot of fun, there's much more then that, but it requires a great GM/DM which is somewhat hard to find/be. |
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Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:38 am |
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Future Engineer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Far away from anything that's far away |
| I am not an animal!, lied the animal... |
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Ignoring the subject... you all do the same
RED, regarding those PnPs...I was trying to say that in our games there was actually very little dice-rolling to be found, only when it was critical to the plot or the setting or other people. Other than that the gameworld was always quite free. Adventures happened on their own, despite the base storyline, which more than often was...um...put it this way: normally the story would've been the trunk of the tree of adventure, and side-plots the branches and twigs...in our games it was usually the other way around. They were really skinny trees with big, beefy branches to slap other, smaller trees silly  . Ofcourse, this wasn't always the case, often storylines intertwined with earlier adventures and so on. But there was constant evolution in the gameworld, and ofcourse, the older we got, so did the adventures. It did help, I admit, that couple of my friends were, safe to say, a bit on the nutty side of the jelly  ... They were fast thinkers and were REALLY into cyberpunk novels and fantasy all-round. Also, I think the other one secretly read loads of Russian literature, otherwise I can't explain all the lavish descriptions he came up with...
so there. made you read
_________________
"Ooooh, fishy fishy fishy FISH! ...And it followed me, wherever I did go..." |
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Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:57 pm |
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Future Engineer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Far away from anything that's far away |
"I never lock my door. I like to encourage intruders."
_________________
"Ooooh, fishy fishy fishy FISH! ...And it followed me, wherever I did go..." |
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Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:58 pm |
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Red
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 282
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The you should be well aware of what a CRPG should be (and of course notice that Arx isn't exactly incrediable in that ragard but much better then most other options on the market specialyl recentky). |
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Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:31 pm |
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Future Engineer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Far away from anything that's far away |
Yes. *ahem* Yes, it is true. *still coughing* But still, hey, I mean, come on...stats and loads of 'em (especially stats that have an impact on gameplay) are still the foundation of any good RPG, Arx just didn't have enough of them, regrettably.
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"Ooooh, fishy fishy fishy FISH! ...And it followed me, wherever I did go..." |
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Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:23 pm |
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Red
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 282
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Actually pretty much everything has an important impact on your gameplay except that one which displays what you know about creatures (unless someone found something that it did more then just that).
I mean Casting's pretty obvious, some fighters who really raise that skill can kill stuff pretty easyly (in oppositiong to trying to be an all around character). Thieves have it pretty hard but they get many more items.
I guess the only other attribute overlooked is defence... I don`t really know who'd really invest a lot in there`, although it might be interesting just to see. |
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Fri Jan 31, 2003 1:44 pm |
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Jay
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 245
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I would definately class Arx as a RPG. Multiple ways to achieve your objective, Choice in how to develop character, and lots to discover along the way. I don't like the absense of choice in conversations (I would like to told all these people asking things of me where to go with their mundane tasks) and the inability to play off certain factions against each other, ala A fist full of dollars. Still agreat game though, and their next game should be epic. It's sad how the developers with the most to offer never seem to have the finance to fulfill their ideas.
As for Phantasmagoria, you played a woman in it. And it was really not as bad as everyone makes out. And Gabriel Knight 2, which is very similar, was a great adventure. |
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Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:25 pm |
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Red
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 282
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Yeah the money... egads... I have 45000 in my current game and my inventory (along with the shopkeepers') is (are) full.
As for phantasmagoria, all I remember is that it had 7cds and it took me about 15 minutes per CD. Game was done in 1:45min. I felt ripped off and the acting and "special effects" were terrible. All I recall was the crappy scene where you saved (I think it was the woman actually, so you'd be playing the guy? Or you switched roles every once in a while?) while the blade was tumbling down to cut her head. I remember you could fail several ways there and tried to find all of them. |
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Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:41 pm |
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Future Engineer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Far away from anything that's far away |
@Jay: Phantasmagoria a decent game you say? Hmmm... Let's just dwell on that for a minute ok? (and no, this isn't meant to be an insult, I'm just looking back at what I felt playing it)
Controls: BAD --- In many a point-and-click adventure, you often had to click on a single pixel at some point(s) of the game to press a button, open a door, get a key etc. In Ph-goria, this often had to be done just to move around!
Role of a woman: OK, for a change, yes, but is it really just me or didn't you play a woman in Giana Sisters? Or the princess in Super Mario 2? Fine, they're RPGs too, then... This really isn't an added bonus to the overall feel of the game or dynamics in it, it's a gimmick to allow players to see a young woman getting her gear, ie. head and various bodyparts thrown around. The thing is, in order to get as many adolescents to buy a game, you have to put violence and women in it. 'Nuff said.
Cutscenes: suddenly it struck me - in order to fill all those CDs, there must be some amazing, less-than-interactive storytelling lying around there, movies and cutscenes and the like. Then I stumbled across all those interlaced, crappy-acting, b-movie (which should always be good, but...) cutscenes that never really made me understand WHY the game had to be FMVd in the first place. Coz it wasn't, it was just awful.
Plot: amazing storytelling with an interesting plot. And that's ALL I have to say about it... Come to think of it, it was pretty amazing, left me gaping with my mouth open. I also ended up with an open garbage can that was later used to store the game. Nobody wanted to buy it from me. C'est la vie.
Gameplay: absolutely brilliant - you can't move about properly, idiotic puzzles, there's one way to complete the game, and a million ways to die. Well, at least they handled some aspect properly. You really felt dead and dismayed after trying (oops, typo, I meant dying) it for a couple fo hours. Plus the fact that you could get hopelessly stuck in at least a dozen different ways...
I don't hate anything, not even Ph-goria, really, I'm a pretty peaceful-minded person, quite zen, if you like... Phantasmagoria was a game that infuriated me, however... but I was young and ignorant then.. These days, I could go and aqcuire a weapon of sorts, preferably a shotgun, and wreack havoc on those who so unabandonedly imposed upon me such a cursed display of a game. ...Not as bad as everyone makes out...argh
PS Haven't played Gabriel Knight 2... now I wonder if I ever will, if it really is similar...
_________________
"Ooooh, fishy fishy fishy FISH! ...And it followed me, wherever I did go..." |
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Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:39 am |
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