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kibbles
Guest
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| NPCs: 24-hour mission-ATMs |
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dunno if anyone else cares, but the lack of a day/nite behavior cycle for npcs really detracts from any 'you are there' immersion factor. especially since they went to such lengths to build a a day/nite cycle for the world. yet even at 3 in the morning, the same dudes are walking the same paths, the shopkeepers are as attentive as ever, etc...
this was acheived in ultima6. hell, even CASTLEVANIA 2--day/nite cycle, shops closed and magic stores opened.
so my question: why do we not see this from todays games?? |
Fri May 10, 2002 2:51 pm |
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dagoo7
Guest
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Modern games can and do do it (e.g., Gothic). However, while I agree with you about immersion, I think people need to stop griping about minor flaws. It would require an amazing amount of additional programming and testing to create the AI simply to have each of the incredible number of NPCs move according to day/night cycle. IMHO I am much happier to get the game now rather than wait for the unattainable goal of perfection. This game does so much right in terms of immersion and atmoshpere. SUre there are things which could be improved (e.g., journal, day/night cycle) but as a whole the is an amazing achievement |
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Fri May 10, 2002 3:02 pm |
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Rendelius
Critical Error
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
Kibbles, yes, in some way you are right. However, I prefer to have a vendor there when I need him - and that could well be 3am 
_________________
Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
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Fri May 10, 2002 3:09 pm |
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Guest
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Some npcs DO go through a cycle, its just not all of them do because there is an extraordinary amount of npcs to script and everything... Would you like to spend the time of script 1000+ npcs if you didn't have to? (By the way I think I read somewhere that the actual number was more than 3000) Sure, it adds diversity, but it simply would not be worth the time. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 3:10 pm |
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kibbles
Guest
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i disagree. i dont program games, but im not sure it would be hand scripted at all.
in castlevania 2, a game of all of a few hundred k, the stores simple closed at nite and people werent on screen. no scripting. where did they go? who cares, just off-screen. very simple logic.
the Wait feature solves any "i want him open now" problems. just click and its opening time.
as it is, every single town feels like a Wax Museum, not a real town at all. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 4:45 pm |
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Guest
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It would be more immersive and realistic, if npcs just suddenly disappeaered at 8:00pm exactly? |
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Fri May 10, 2002 5:03 pm |
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Stiler
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
Posts: 230
Location: TN, USA |
For those of ya who are complaining about "if they do this then how will i get a vendor at night?" how about Most of them close at night, but a few ehem shotty vendors stay open at night if ya know what i mean. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 5:38 pm |
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Guest
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> It would be more immersive and realistic, if npcs just suddenly
> disappeaered at 8:00pm
im sure they could come up w/ something. if you couldnt see them, theyd be removed. far more complicated things have been done.
either way; any method is better than walking in an eternal wax museum where either: a) no one moves, or b) the same people walk the same path all the time |
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Fri May 10, 2002 7:02 pm |
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Bedwyr
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Rendelius
Kibbles, yes, in some way you are right. However, I prefer to have a vendor there when I need him - and that could well be 3am
Simply barge into his sleeping chambers, wake him up, and demand that he do business at such a late hour. Tell him why its so important and you might not even lose standing with him. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 7:22 pm |
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Guest
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I agree, this is the biggest thing that was in Daggerfall but not Morrowind. As a thief, I'm very disappointed 
It wouldn't be too difficult to script every NPC to retire for the night if they just had a system to link a house to an NPC. It probably wouldn't require more than a few days of (tedious) work. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 7:24 pm |
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Guest
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Ahhh... no it definitely wouldn't be hard now that I look at it again... I thought earlier you meant that each npc should have a unique script. I know how to program, and it wouldn't be tough at all to just make cycles like that. Would be quite simple, just something like this:
void PLAYER::GoToSleep()
{
WalkToHome();
Sleep();
}
Of course you'd have to make WalkToHome() and Sleep(), but that would be really easy, too. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 7:29 pm |
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Guest
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I created a post on the exact same topic.
My feeling is that currently the Day/Night Cycles are nothing but eye candy and the exciting possibilities of the Night aren't really present. He are some of the ideas that I feel would add to the Role Playing Factor is the NPCs adhered to the Day/Night Cycle.
-Alleyway Vendors-
You want to trade/sell/buy wares in the middle of the night? Any honest law-abiding shopkeeper would have closed up shop by then (Morrowind Worker's Act: Thou shalt not exceed an 8 hour work day). You shouldn't be completely screwed though, all the "honest" shopkeeps have shut down but the night opens up the seedy world of "Don't ask me where I got it, and don't tell anyone who you got it from" Alleyway Vendors.
Thiefs should have people to associate with right? Chances are the scum that actually respects a bad reputation aren't walking around during the day. These undesirable characters should only be lurking around in the dead of the night, smoking skoona (sp?) and selling their black market wares and whatever else they come across.
Will you risk the reputation of your "Good" character by doing business with these undesirables? Or will your Thief get caught up in the highly profitable yet highly risky black market. I think you can imagine the possibilites of an Underworld Culture that only comes out at night.
-Stealing from Crates-
I find it kind of "Final Fantasy" like that I can go through all the crates scattered around town and cities in plain view of guards and citizens. With no risk or punishment I can cruise around town exploring and taking everything from the crates and pawn whatever I don't want.
I feel the Day/Night Cycles could add a little risk to this venture. Let us say that taking items from crates is illegal. They are not your crates, they belong to the citizens of the city and if you are caught by a guard or citizen you will be punished/fined for stealing.
For a thief character, anything that isn't guarded or locked up equates to free loot. Of course getting to the free loot may mean you have to get around the law but that is all part of the job. During the day, there are simply too many people around to steal from the crates. You could take from some of them when nobodies around but the ones on the main streets would be risky. What to do? Wake up in the middle of the night and steal from them when the smaller number of Night Shift Guards are on duty. Put that sneak/hide in shadows skill to use and do a little small time crate theft.
There are countless other ideas that could be executed if the NPC Day/Night Cycles were more defined. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and understand that they might not have had the time to do everything we wanted but I feel that if something were to be enhanced in future Mods/Patches, this is one aspect that would greatly increase the Immersion Quality. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 9:01 pm |
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Potentated Knight of Ni
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 259
Location: Somewhere lost in Canada (I Know Where I am Not) |
I do not have the game yet , however maybe they were trying to make it like the large U.S. cities that "never sleep". ie Washington, New York, and of course L.A.
_________________
 We (me, myself, and I) are the the Knights who say "Nee"!=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild= |
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Sat May 11, 2002 3:02 am |
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kparti
Village Dweller
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 22
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is it possible to correct this - 24/7 shop problem - with tes? i mean, at least a scheduled 101% locks on shops...taverns from 1pm to 2am etc...i really miss this..it'd be great to wait for the shop opening till 8am.
[like in arcanum]
these r one of those small things i miss in morrowind...
and i want to meet other outlander adventurers in the hills.. |
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Sat May 11, 2002 2:54 pm |
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