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Jung
Guest
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Rendelius, the scripts that the NPCs is Gothic follow are not very detailed, but they give an illusion that you are among intelligent beings, not manequins. The fact that they spoke also helped.
I just think that the rollplaying element seemed stronger in Gothic. Not the the variety of rolls you can play, but the rewards and involvment of playing that roll were tangible, thus heightening the feeling of being that character. When I became a guard, most of the other guards congratulated me, and Bloodwyn quit hitting me up for money. I don't think that kind of feedback exists in MW.
I think the game will continue to evolve due to the editor and patches that will fix(hopefully) some of the poor performance and crude/broken game mechanics. MW may be very different six months from now.
Perhaps I don't have the desire to create my own goals in this game, knowing that I may not recieve any feedback from the game once I reach those goals, but I think that a bigger problem is that it's not as much fun as it could be getting to a goal. Cliffracers, limited movement, lame combat, dull NPCs, etc. all drag it down. This isn't the 80's where we are wowed by color graphics and sound. I've played the latest and greatest games, so I know they can do better. |
Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:14 pm |
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guest
Guest
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Rendelius, please take no offence but I must take certain exception with what you are saying. First - I am 52 years old and thus have played most CRPGs from the very beginning (yes I was THERE when the first Zork, Wizardry I and Ultima I came out).
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Zork I?!? Now that's a blast from the past. Reload try another choice, Reload try another choice. It was a simple game, and for some reason I loved it back then.
I have to mention that I do like Morrowind, but I think that the flaws mentioned are perfectly real. I've only just started the game, but I already find it repetitive. I'm probably missing alot of quests, but I don't feel like slogging through 100 identical NPC's to find something remotely interesting. I'm finding myself mainly doing the main quest just because I find all the side quests to be...well, boring. I like the open ended character development, but I think it's a little too easy (waaaay to easy). I shouldn't be able to become the best thief, mage, fighter, alchemist ...etc in the land - I'm starting to get the feeling that if my rate of advancement keeps up - I'll be the best at all of them. If I wanted to be a god I'd play populus or B&W or something. |
Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:46 pm |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight


Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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Well, Joey Nipps, you are right when you claim that we shouldnt let programmers get away with bad programming or poor design, but except for some very minor things, I just dont see that being true for Morrowind. I think it also depends a little on what you want to see. Maybe Rendelius (and myself) see some things a bit too positive, but considering the ratings this game gets both from professional reviewers and gamers, I think we are in good company.
I really dont think that "repetitive Artwork" is a claim that can seriously be made about MW. I have never seen a game that has been so lovingly designed as this one, from weapon designs to the different architectural styles to all the clutter to the landscapes. The game looks beautiful and varied to me, and while Gothic is absolutely in the same league and in some parts even better (How I loved old camp), Morrowind is far bigger, varied and in several ways more interactive. Shoddy programming? Well obviously it could have been more stable, but most people run it, and run it well after some tweaks. There have been a lot worse than this, but of course, a patch is still in order.
Yes, there is no question that the NPC scripting and scheduling in Gothic was far superior to what MW delivers, and I liked the illusion it created. So what that that guy hammered the same board every day, thats far easier to ignore thatn shops that never close, right? But does the fact that Gothic came out mean that I cant find any other game released after Gothic (and don't forget that MW was in development before anybody knew about Gothic) good? Does it mean that now every other game coming out afterwards HAS to have all that, too?
Then GothicII will also HAVE to have 10 races, and free character creation? Thousands of books? Plates and knifes and forks that you can take or steal or rearrange? Must it allow me to ask every digger and maid at least about the local services, news and rumors, their trade, a tip, some lore? Does it have to be 10 square miles big? (at least. MW did that allready so it must be bigger right?) Does it need to have in game alchemy and spell creation and enchantment? No, of course not. Nevertheless GothicII will probably be a great game even if it doesn't do any of these things.
Your post makes it sound as if MW was a bad game, and obviously I think that this is not true. Its not perfect of course (I havent played a perfect game yet), but it delivers so much, has such high production values, and so much gameplay for my money, that I think its probably one of the best buys I have made, up there with Half-Life and Gothic, for sure.
Jung: The latest and greatest games? Sure, MW could be more alive. But I also see those latest and greatest with other eyes now. Gothic - great game, but so much more linear, and small and short (still my favorite, like it just as much as MW) Baldurs gate (only played 1)? MWs NPCs are alive and intersting compared to these, and 1st person just is so much more immersive to me. Dungeon Siege? Pretty, but thats about it. So even if you say Gothic was better, wouldn't a second best game deserve some praise, too? |
Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:50 pm |
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Cinosanap
Guest
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Hold on there; I would not classify Morrowind as "the second best" RPG of all time. It is not even close, in my opinion. I can spill out a long list just right off the top of my head... Bard's Tale, Might & Magic I, Ultima IV, Fallout 2, Planescape Torment, Gothic, hell... I actually liked Ultima IX more.
That's not to say that I don't like Morrowind. I really like it. It is pretty boring at times, but it is still a good RPG.
I hate the fact that scenerios and game features started getting the ax to insure X-Box compatibility and the TEEN rating... that sort of irks me a bit. If Bethesda spent all the resources they spent on X Box development instead of greedily trying to snatch the teen console demographic, they probably would have released something that had a lot more depth than Morrowind.
Morrowind is a good RPG. But after all it will be remembered for it's incredible graphics. Future RPGs might boast of having "graphics on par with Morrowind" but I doubt anyone will ever claim there upcoming game will have "the depth of Morrowind". Because quite simple, there is not much depth at all. |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:31 am |
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Llama
High Emperor

Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth |
quote:
But after all it will be remembered for it's incredible graphics.
That's all the game has going for it. |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:46 am |
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Farseer
City Guard


Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 131
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Ghan, Why are you responding to a post directed in a non flame way to rendilis( sorry if misspelled)?? It seems trolling can be a passtime. I also am an older gamer with similar hopes for Morrowwind. Hopeing for [plugins that really liven up the game.
Last edited by Farseer on Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:09 am |
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Lordr31z
Captain of the Guard


Joined: 11 May 2002
Posts: 190
Location: United States of America |
After all of your useless rambling I could care less. You are 52 or you are 10 it doesnt matter your opinion doesnt count. The fact is Morrowind is the best RPG next to Kingsfield.  |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:09 am |
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sauron38
Rara Avis

Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
Yes, but that is your opinion... rendering it invalid by your own logic... is it not? _________________ Make good choices. |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:40 am |
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ItBurn
Guest
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Well I actually find Morrowind very compelling. I can't put it down. And I'm actually not very impressed by the graphics, since I've been used to them from all the screenshots I saw. I admit that at the start I thought that the game was kinda bland, but now that I have joined some guilds and started the main quest, its just SO immersive. Never have I seriously wanted to not go to work and play instead.
If there was no ninja monkeys, the game would start to suck when all enemies get too weak at a certain place in the world... Not every player goes at the same place at the same point.
As for the combat, remember, this is a roleplaying game, your character's skills aren't yours. You shouldn't need to have fps skills in this game. It's simple, everything is done by your character. |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:00 am |
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iloveplywood
Guest
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First point: obviously no one knows how morrowind will be rembered, it takes a lot of hubris to go around proclaiming its legacy. Secondly, I've only played morrowind about 20 hours but so far love it and I do consider it to have depth (i even enjoy the combat), but depth is not a term that is going to mean the same thing to everybody. Thirdly, debating whether a game is good or not is goofy. Giving your opinion on a game and why you like or don't like it is informative and helpful for people that might have similar taste in games as yourself, but debating it?? Let's have a debate on whether orange juice tastes better than pineapple juice, just as fruitful (sorry that was horrible).
One last point, lots of people love gothic, but how long does it take to complete? I've seen one post where the guy said 25 hours, the other said 33. Wonder what Morrowind would have been like if the content was crammed into a 30 hour game?
Hmm . . . for someone who just stated that this thread is futile I sure blabbed on enough about it. Screw it, I'm a hypocrite. At least I got to use the word Hubris! |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:25 am |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight


Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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quote: Originally posted by Farseer
Ghan, Why are you responding to a post directed in a non flame way to rendilis( sorry if misspelled)?? It seems trolling can be a passtime. I also am an older gamer with similar hopes for Morrowwind. Hopeing for [plugins that really liven up the game.
Huh? Why Do you say I am trolling and flaming? I did not attack anyone, I just expressed my support for Rendelius opinion and my own positive opinion about the game, thats what this thread is about or not? And I think I did it in a civilized manner?
Last edited by GhanBuriGhan on Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:08 am |
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Rendelius
Critical Error

Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
What shall I say? I played about every single RPG on a computer since the days of The Sinclair ZX Spectrum - and I only remember the Ultima Underworlds to capture me as much as Morrowind does. I enjoyed Gothic as well, but for me and my taste, Morrowind is the better RPG - without saying that Gothic isn't excellent as well.
You can tell me a hundred times how bad Morrowind is - the only thing I can say is "Make it quick, outlander, or go away"  _________________ Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:21 am |
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Baalcipher
Humanoid Typhoon

Joined: 30 Dec 2001
Posts: 844
Location: Industrial Wasteland, USA |
quote: Originally posted by Rendelius
I enjoyed Gothic as well, but for me and my taste, Morrowind is the better RPG - without saying that Gothic isn't excellent as well.
You can tell me a hundred times how bad Morrowind is - the only thing I can say is "Make it quick, outlander, or go away"
*gulp*
Make Sure JoWood doesnt read this. ..........eee!!!! Since they (and PBytes) love you so much.... ah it might be unconditional. _________________
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Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:34 am |
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Black_Lord
Eager Tradesman


Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 48
Location: Idaho |
I quit playing Might and magic IX to play Morrowind, and though I am going to get flamed for this, I went back to Might and Magic, even Daggerfall has more to keep me interested. I will admit that at the start of Morrowind I was awed, but it wore off when I realized that everything, even the quests were all similar... |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:51 am |
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Danicek
The Old One

Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Many people = many different opinions :]
I must completly agree with Rend. With one exception - I played very few RPGs. |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:36 am |
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