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Chekote
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
You just think you are upset about consoles stealing the RPG genre from PC's. You are not really bothered by it now. Wait until the next generation of consoles comes out in a couple of years. You will really be complaining then.

PC game sales have already been falling. When the new generation of consoles are released, PC game sales will probably fall until all of the pretend PC gamers have been washed out, leaving only those who are dedicated to PC's, and just happen to play games.


Thats what everyone regurgitates every time another Console RPG generation is anounced.

Everyone (Including me) will be impressed for about a year, then the PC will overtake the consoles again.

Thats the way it has always been, and thats the way it will always be.

Edit: The only way Consoles could possibly oust PC's as gaming machines, is if they release a new backwards compatible version every year...

And then I SERIOUSLY doubt people would be willing to buy a new system every year. As previously mentioned, one of the main attractions of consoles is that they are cheap. If you had to buy one every year then it would lose that advantage.
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Post Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:02 pm
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Darrius Cole
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Perhaps not, but everything appears to be headed towards consoles becoming the method of choice for gaming for the majority of the populace.

A PC will always be able to present a better games to its users, because it can provide gaming options that a console can not. But every year consoles get closer to having more power than an ordinary person (read: computer illiterate) can use. If people keep buying consoles, eventually so many people will have them that most of the games will be designed for console and modified for the computer.

Some people will always use PC's for gaming. And the PC games will on average be better, because of more flexibility in the machine. But I believe that the money in consoles, because they can be sold to a computer idiot, will force the game development towards consoles.

I believe backward compatibility has very little to do with it.
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Post Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:41 pm
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
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Joined: 08 Mar 2002
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Location: Dont know, looks kind of green
   

Yes you are right, gaming will move mostly to Consoles (Because that is where the money is).

But as you point out, the majority of the public are computer illiterate (Read: Morons). I dont know about anyone else, but I realy have no desire to play games designed for morons...

I will stick to and support the PC as long it has a viable use for me (And I see that being the case for the remainder of my life).

I have all the consoles, but I rerely play them. I mostly have them so I can play the Eastern style RPG's and some very rare AAA titles like Zelda, Halo, Fable etc...

I will be interested to see how the new generation consoles turn out, I have already heard many developers speak negatively about them, (Including John Carmack of ID). Which such high profile industry guru's stating their displeasure with the new consoles, make me worry even less of them being a threat to the games that I care about.

The types of developers who will move to 100% console development obviously do not have the pride or dedication it takes to make an extremely high quality game. They move to consoles because console users are quite happy to buy their crap...

Im happy to stick with my niche of small quantity high quality games thank you very much
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Post Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:03 pm
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TheMadGamer
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quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
Yes you are right, gaming will move mostly to Consoles (Because that is where the money is).


PC's will always have games. And it is true that the power of consoles has created a substantial shift in the number of titles created for consoles.

With that, I hope two things happen:

1) That consoles will start shipping with a mouse and keyboard and that videogames are designed with those types of input.

2) If consoles become the mainstream, I hope that smaller developers will fill in the PC niche with more the more thoughtful types of games of yester-year. We're sort of seeing that now with games like Gothic, Arx Fatalis, and Divine Divinity... I hope it continues.
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Post Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:52 pm
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Darrius Cole
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I doubt the consoles will ship with a mouse and keyboard anytime in the near future. They may have them as optional equipment though. The games will probably be designed for the D-pad inputs like consoles use now.

You are probably correct in that the PC games will get better. I would expect them to be developed with no intention of releasing them on console. I would expect the development of much deeper games that simply could not be played on a machine as weak as a console.

If the game can be put on a console, they will put it on console. So, before long the PC games should be games that can not be put on console. Those games will simply blow the others out of the water.
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Post Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:07 pm
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TheMadGamer
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
I doubt the consoles will ship with a mouse and keyboard anytime in the near future.


Agreed. Though I can continue to hope and dream...

quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
The games will probably be designed for the D-pad inputs like consoles use now.


Essentially, I hope that this is NOT what happens. Games more complicated than a platform game or FPS game just don't work well with a game pad.

Console based RPGs using a game pad is probably one of the biggest reasons why I don't play console based RPGs... I just hate how complicated and long winded it is to navigate... it really detracts from the gameplay.

But if console game makers start desiging their games for use with a mouse and keyboard then that would fix that problem.
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Post Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:11 pm
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Darrius Cole
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Yeah, but it would force the existing console owners to change the way they interact with the game. (Plus, would cost more to put a keyboard with every machine.) This is a major point of concern with gamers. Do any of you remember the fat controller that came out with the Xbox? It was so unpopular that they had to change it. Never mind the fact that a mouse and keyboard are superior for RPG's, console makers have to consider other types of games as well.

If Microsoft has proven one thing it is that superior marketing beats superior products.

But, that really is sad.
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Post Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:33 pm
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TheMadGamer
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
Yeah, but it would force the existing console owners to change the way they interact with the game.


Well it's going to be about give and take. If the direction of gaming is going to focus hugely on consoles, then it might make sense to caputre PC enthusiates as well by providing inputs more suitable to certain generes.

It's really not as far fetched as you seem to think it is. After all, game consoles these days have mass storage and ethernet connections. It would seem a mouse and keyboard would be a small leap by comparison.
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Post Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:39 am
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Darrius Cole
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I can see them trying to capture the hardcore PC gamer market. But I question whether they could ever succeed in getting the hardcore PC gamer to truly switch to a console for the main PC genres. Would you switch?
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Post Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:09 am
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TheMadGamer
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
I can see them trying to capture the hardcore PC gamer market. But I question whether they could ever succeed in getting the hardcore PC gamer to truly switch to a console for the main PC genres. Would you switch?


Well, I probably will sound like a pompous a$$ for writing this, but I make a lot of money so I don't have to pick and choose I sorta just get it all

But... and this is a big BUT (no pun intended), complicated and involving PC based CRPGs are my absolute favorite!

If these traditionally pc-only type CRPGs were to migrate over to consoles with mouse/keyboard support I'd probably play them.
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Post Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:32 pm
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Where’s my Banana?!?!




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Location: Dont know, looks kind of green
   

Consoles WILL overtake PC's as the primary platform for game developers. I hate the idea as much as anyone else, but denying it is just deluding (sp?) yourself.

Every year the consoles take more and more of the PC's gaming share.

Eventualy its gonna get to a point where there are just a few dedicated PC developers left (Not counting the community of course), who will still make high quality games, but 99% of the developers will have moved to console.

As sad as it is to say, the amount of money to be earned from PC game development is getting less and less.

As computers get closer and closer to Photo-Realism in games, there is going to be less of a distinction between PC games and Console games. Yes I know that there is a lot more to games than graphics, but I can assure you that most of the general public just get attracted to eye candy.

When it gets to photo-realism (or close), most of the general public are going to say (Why should I pay $2000-$3000 for a PC when I can get a console for $200-$300 is exactly the same). It obviously isnt the same, but thats what they will think.
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Post Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:11 pm
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TheMadGamer
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quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
Consoles WILL overtake PC's as the primary platform for game developers. I hate the idea as much as anyone else, but denying it is just deluding (sp?) yourself.


Pundits began saying this in mass just before the launch of the PS2/XBOX/GC. Pundits also said this, albeit less often, before these systems. Consoles may become the dominate gaming machines, but PC games aren't going to wither and die.

quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
Every year the consoles take more and more of the PC's gaming share.


Do you have any data to support this? A visit to the local computer store still shows a huge number of titles available for the PC. If anything, there are more games concurrently out for the PC today than 5 years ago.

quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
Eventualy its gonna get to a point where there are just a few dedicated PC developers left (Not counting the community of course), who will still make high quality games, but 99% of the developers will have moved to console.


If this were to happen (and that's a BIG 'if'), it may not necessarily be a bad thing. There would be a nice niche left wide open that would be off the giants' (such as EA) radar screen left open to smaller developers. Back in the early days of computer gaming, some of the best PC games were made by small developers who didn't worry about appealing to a mass market. What a publisher like EA might consider and insignificant niche might be quite lucrative to the small developer.

Also, people speak about PC development in the future as if it were set in stone that it will continue to be as problematic as it is today. Who's to say that things won't change for the better where it will get easier for developers to create games and not be faced with an onslought of compatibility issues. With standards like DirectX and other standards maturing and being adopted by hard manufacturers, things could very well get a lot better to the extent of significantly reducing production and testing costs for PC game development.
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Post Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:25 pm
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
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Joined: 08 Mar 2002
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Location: Dont know, looks kind of green
   

quote:
Originally posted by TheMadGamer
Pundits began saying this in mass just before the launch of the PS2/XBOX/GC. Pundits also said this, albeit less often, before these systems. Consoles may become the dominate gaming machines, but PC games aren't going to wither and die.


There is a huge difference between what I said, and what people regurgitate every time another Console Generation comes out.

Every time a new generation of consoles come out these "Pundits" say its the END of PC's as gaming machines because the consoles are so much more powerful.

That is just ridiculous because:

1. PC's will never go away as gaming machines
2. PC's overtake consoles in regards to computing power shortly after they are released (A year usualy).

I have never said the PC is going to wither and die. These "Pundits" you speak of are just the doomsday preachers that turn up at every console release.

What I am saying is far more realistic:

"Consoles WILL overtake PC's as the primary platform for game developers."

That statement says that consoles will overtake PC's, not wipe them out. Also, I never said they would overtake them in terms of computing power. Read my post again and you will see the statement near the end about the noticeable difference getting smaller.

PC's will ALWAYS be more powerful than consoles. But there will come a point where the difference is not apparent to the average joe.

You and Me will always prefer PC games, but we will be in the minority. Joe Public doesnt want to deal with all the crap we have to deal with (Which for us isnt realy an issue since we know what were doing and keep our PC's in shape).

Making games easier to develop for PC's is also not a guarantee that it will be successful in the future. The problem is not with the developers, its with the end user base and the Big Wigs accountants.

In response to your statement about more PC games than five years ago, that is irrelevent. What you need to compare is the percent of growth in Console Games to the percent of Growth in PC games.

Also 5 years is a very short time in computer gaming. I have been playing computer games for over 20 years, and I have seen the trends over that far longer period of time. I have seen first hand the fall of computers to consoles: First the Atari, then the Commodore... (Yes I know their fall was also due to the PC) .

The amount of PC games has grown since 5 years ago, but not much. Consoles on the other hand have exploded in popularity since the release of the Playstation.

I remember when my local EBGames was at least 50% PC games, now its maybe 20%. There are also lots of stores that do not realy concentrate on Games, but used to sell a small selection of all systems games. Now they ONLY sell console games. I dont think any more proof is needed...

No matter how much you deny it, PC's are being replaced by Consoles as the gaming system of choice. The PC will never ever die. But it will certainly lose favor with game developers who are in it to make the big bucks.
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Post Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:49 pm
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TheMadGamer
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I think I first misunderstood you. Then based on my response, you misunderstand me.

[quote="Chekote"]"Consoles WILL overtake PC's as the primary platform for game developers."

All things being equal, I agree.
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Post Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:02 pm
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Darrius Cole
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quote:
Originally by Chekote
What I am saying is far more realistic....

Read Chekote's above post to fill in space

...The PC will never ever die. But it will certainly lose favor with game developers who are in it to make the big bucks.
I could not have said it better myself (unless I tried really, really hard).
(Sheds tears of joy because someone agrees with him so completely on a topic.)
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Post Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:05 pm
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