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Morrowind just cannot hold my attention
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RPGDot Forums > Morrowind - General

Author Thread
Danicek
The Old One
The Old One




Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic
   

quote:
Originally posted by Jung
quote:
Originally posted by GhanBuriGhan
Then why are you posting so hard to make online enemies
Peace, brother
Just accept that we like the game, as I can accept and partly understand the reasons why you don't.


So, giving your opinion on a game that you feel is overrated is an attempt to make enemies?


Ofcourse not. And if we will be wise enough we can keep it here "flameless".
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:20 pm
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Guest
Guest






   

quote:
Originally posted by Joey Nipps
quote:
Originally posted by Fireteddy
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I like the way Morrowind makes me feel like it's a complete other world, with all its intricacies and details (replete with political intrigue and strip clubs!). And I like how I'm in no rush to do things, and I can defeat the evil lord if I feel like it.



Therein lies the problem - it only APPEARS to be complete and detailed. Very little can be interacted with and little if anything you do makes any difference. Your strip club for instance - they do nothing. You cannot talk to them about "strip club" topics. You cannot hire them, they do not need you at all to do anything for them to either help them in their stripping or to get out of stripping. The designers couldn't even be honest about what to call their profession (acrobats????). There is NO interaction - thus they are just fluff window dressing.

Yes, you are right, you can move all around the world freely - but essentially nothing you do matters (unless you happen to kill the wrong npc that is critical to the main storyline - which is bad in and of itself). The guilds don't even restrict you from joining competing ones (I am top level in Thieves guild, Morag Tong, Fighter's guild, Mage's guild - nobody cares).

Yes, you have detailed mountains and detailed houses - and nothing matters. I kill an npc and the one standing what can be at most 10 feet away doesn't even notice??????????????? Yes, that is detail all right.


But it actually seems to matter, what you do. I did the Code book quest for the Fighter's Guild without being a Thief Guild member (though fullfilling the requirements for the Thief Guild). Now the Thief Guild won't let me join.
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:23 pm
 
Llama
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth
   

quote:
Then why are you posting so hard to make online enemies


Do my opinions hurt you in some way?
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:24 pm
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada
   

Llama, why do you waste your life on something you find so deplorable? Why don't you spend your life doing something you enjoy, rather than going around trying to convince others that what they enjoy is crap? Did you like have bad childhood or someting? If so, get over it and move on.

And don't bother calling me a troll again either. Personal insults from you don't mean much any more.

People here generally like this game. They come here to discuss the game they like. Unless you like agitating people on purpose, I fail to see why you keep insisting on arguing with people that this game is junk. Let it be, get over it, move on. Life will be much kinder to you that way.

But than again, what do I know, right?
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Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:32 pm
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Jung
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MoonDragon, the only way to get MW fixed or improved in the next release is to complain and point out its faults. Glowing reviews , rabid fanboys, and keeping quiet to avoid hurting your feeling will not fix it. We wanted a great game, but didn't get it and hope one day we will get the game we wished for. Also, if you will note the title of this thread, yoiu will find that it is quite appropriate to to complain about the game's faults in this section.
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:48 pm
 
Llama
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth
   

quote:
Llama, why do you waste your life on something you find so deplorable? Why don't you spend your life doing something you enjoy, rather than going around trying to convince others that what they enjoy is crap? Did you like have bad childhood or someting? If so, get over it and move on.


Because I visit this site a few times a day, I read the forums, and I follow the progress of the MW patch in the hopes it fixes just a few of the broken aspects of this overhyped game.

quote:
And don't bother calling me a troll again either. Personal insults from you don't mean much any more.


Troll isn't an insult. You do troll, just as much as every other person you've called a troll on these forums.

quote:
People here generally like this game. They come here to discuss the game they like. Unless you like agitating people on purpose, I fail to see why you keep insisting on arguing with people that this game is junk. Let it be, get over it, move on. Life will be much kinder to you that way.


They're called opinions, different viewpoints on something, or different ideas. I have as much right to state my opinion as you do. You drool over this game, and I would like to punch the developers in the face for making such a worthless product.

quote:
But than again, what do I know, right?


Exactly
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:48 pm
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Danicek
The Old One
The Old One




Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic
   

I am starting to think that everything important was already said here.


So there is probably no reason to continue...

...just my idea
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:14 pm
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Noble Knight




Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
   

No, Lama, I was just trying to lighten things up a little, didnt work, apparently.
Basically what I wanted to say is the same thing Danicek said, we have all stated our opinions here and thats about as far as we will get. You will not get me to agree to your point of view (and dont really want me to) and I won't get you to agree to mine (and I don't really care). And so we can all happily wait for the patch and cool mods together.
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:48 pm
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Garon
Guest






   

[quote="Llama"]
quote:


Why would it bother me that a name on my computer screen likes something that I don't? I'm confused as to why you would even assume this.


I have no idea why it bothers you that I like MW. Your posts, however, provide far more evidence that it does bother you than any claim to the contrary that you may make.

quote:


lol

Nearly every person says the exact same thing when you ask them a basic question. There are a few people that have very cool dialog to start out with (for instance, the Ashlander standing in the Pelagiad tavern). He doesn't speak the "common" language very well...at least until you ask him a question with a global response, then suddenly he knows the common language perfectly. As with every single other character in the game that has even the slightest resemblence of "life" in their dialog. They suddenly become the static, boring NPC that you meet in every other town in the game.




Why do you ignore the deeper characters of the Guild and House Leaders and other similar npcs only to continue bashing the filler npcs? I believe that is called, in more colloquial terms, "throwing the baby out with the bath water."

quote:


Come back when you're level 35 and you've already fought 5,000,000,000 cliff racers, then tell me it's not a fatal flaw.


I'm higher than level 35, and the 5,000,000,000 cliff racers are not a fatal flaw. Happy? Interesting assumption, though, even though there is no evidence to support it. . .

quote:


Really? I don't recall calling you names, or claiming you were a "mindless buffoon", perhaps you're just assuming (again) that because I have a different opinion than yours that I must have some type of problem? Maybe a small amount of time infront of the mirror, practicing what you preach would help.

But, to respond to a specific comment about not knowing people I type to on the internet---
I don't want to, I have no desire to make "friends" on the internet, because everyone is just a name on my screen that goes away when I turn off my monitor or close by browser window. I guess now you can respond with some inane comment about how I'm anti-social because I don't sit infront of my computer all the time making online friends...


You're right, you didn't call me a mindless buffoon. Instead, you used the term diehard fanboy when referring to someone who agreed with my ideas (I'm waiting with great anticipation for your argument that this term is not derogatory). You stated that I like repetitive and tedious gameplay--a statement that is not an overt insult but that instead more subtly connotes mindlessness. Your posts are there for others to read, so denying your ad hominem arguments is useless and obviously dishonest.

I wish you liked Morrowind. I think it is a great game. I wish everyone liked it, because then Bethesda would do very well and Elder Scrolls IV could be something very special. But you don't like Morrowind. I accept that, and I accept that nothing I say will probably change your tastes in gaming. What I do not accept is that just because my opinion is different from yours that I am a "diehard fanboy", as you so eloquently put it. I think I'm just another gamer with different tastes from you. My mirror is working just fine, Llama.

I don't care about your internet social habits. What you do on your own time is your own business. One of your last claims, however, proves my point. You see others on the internet as faceless names that go away when you leave your computer. You are wrong. Others on the internet can read, think, and talk. Some can even write. They definitely do not go away when you turn off your computer--but I won't do any more to impede your fantasy.

Danicek was right. All that I needed to say has been said. I guess, Llama, that I will now let you win in the only way that any internet forum argument is won. I've stated my opinion, and I hope I have stated it so that objective readers can understand it. Since I've said what I wanted to say, I will let you win by giving you the last word. . .

Garon

<<<Garon steps down and encourages Llama to get up onto the soapbox>>>
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:13 pm
 
Llama
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth
   

quote:
I have no idea why it bothers you that I like MW. Your posts, however, provide far more evidence that it does bother you than any claim to the contrary that you may make.




quote:
Why do you ignore the deeper characters of the Guild and House Leaders and other similar npcs only to continue bashing the filler npcs? I believe that is called, in more colloquial terms, "throwing the baby out with the bath water."


Oh, those deep characters that have you run around the island and fetch things for them, or go to place "A" and dispatch so and so for doing such and such, but when you get there, they aren't doing anything but standing around waiting for you (and have no evidence of wrong doing with them). The House Leaders that call for help because assassins are on the prowl, only to stand there blindly while you kill them, and then not show any extra depth in their conversations after saving their lives, and the lives of everyone in the Manor? The Guild leaders that don't even question your intent to join, the first thing they ask you is "do you want to join so and so?", and then don't have a true dialog change once you join, they only give you more quests then say "sorry, all out of quests till you get to rank whatever, go to this person for more, then come back"... Sorry, but their dialog is all very boring, the only different things they say are when they give you another quest, they don't chit chat, they don't really move, they're like statues, almost.

quote:
I'm higher than level 35, and the 5,000,000,000 cliff racers are not a fatal flaw. Happy?


k

quote:
You're right, you didn't call me a mindless buffoon. Instead, you used the term diehard fanboy when referring to someone who agreed with my ideas (I'm waiting with great anticipation for your argument that this term is not derogatory). You stated that I like repetitive and tedious gameplay--a statement that is not an overt insult but that instead more subtly connotes mindlessness. Your posts are there for others to read, so denying your ad hominem arguments is useless and obviously dishonest.


"Usually the diehard fanboys are the ones that turn a blind eye to the flaws in MW, bringing up other statements about the game, rather than addressing the problems a person lists."

Please go back to the beginning of the thread and read through it, you'll notice that you didn't appear until I made that post in reference to people that avoid the flaws in MW. Please notice the word choice of "usually"--one of the first definitions of "usually" is "commonly encountered, experienced, or observed:". That statement was not directed towards you, it was not directed towards anyone in paticular, just a statement to someone complaining about people changing the subject matter of a complaint in order to avoid the issues at hand. If, in your mind, you feel that this directly reflects how you think, then oh well, not my problem.

quote:
because then Bethesda would do very well and Elder Scrolls IV could be something very special


They already did very well, because 90% of the stores don't take back opened software due to CD-RW technology so all sales made during the initial rush are basically final. From a fanbase point of view, you'll notce that the forums are crawling with people complaining about everything talked about on these forums, and more.

quote:
You see others on the internet as faceless names that go away when you leave your computer. You are wrong. Others on the internet can read, think, and talk. Some can even write. They definitely do not go away when you turn off your computer--but I won't do any more to impede your fantasy.


lmao-- You're kinda funny, in a naive sort of way... You do go away when I close this browser window, you do go away when I turn off my computer. Everyone you meet is a faceless name linked to words on a screen. If you choose to get to know that person on a personal level, then they become much more I assume. Like you, for example. To me, you're Garon, an unregistered user that posts on this forum in the hopes of defending the "little man" or whatever your cause may be. Beyond that, I really don't care what you had for breakfast this morning, or how many times a day you eat, or what your favorite drink is, what you do for a living, or whatever other habits/hobbies you may have. Anyone that takes words on a screen so seriously that it effects their every day lives, needs to seek some type of pyschological help.

Thanks for letting me have the last word. It was an elightening experience, that I only hope everyother person in the world could experience. Perhaps, one day world peace might be achieved by your wonderful generosity of giving everyone the last word, it will further advance your status of "total internet coolness".

/sarcasm
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:46 pm
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Fireteddy
City Guard
City Guard




Joined: 24 May 2002
Posts: 148
Location: Windsor, Canada
   

*dons his +3 Flame-Retardant Cuirass of Peace*

-Matt
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"What Plato is about to say is going to be a lie." - Socrates
"Socrates has just spoken truly." -Plato
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:13 pm
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Jung
Guest






   

You guys who don't evaluate a game, movie, album, or whatever in an objective way are not helping improve the next iteration. Without negative feedback, makers will think that their product is perfect, and not fix the problems next go 'round. So, like Morrowind for what is good, but don't be afraid to speak up about what is bad.

I am currently trying to play MW, but I am not very far into it. I don't dislike it enough to quit yet, but I keep hoping for more from the game, like something to emotionaly involve me. Perhaps part of the problem is that I played Gothic before MW, and was spoiled by the beautiful/realistic environments, exciting combat, and feelings of involvement in the camps and the story. But, I think most MW's flaws would be apparent even without this comparison.
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:16 pm
 
Rendelius
Critical Error
Critical Error




Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria
   

Well, after 200+ hours into Morrowind, the thing I can say for sure is: You get our of Morrowind what you put into it.

Technical issues left aside, this isn't a game that tells you what to do or how to do it. It makes way for your imagination. It is more of a game system than a game. If you play it like you play Diablo or even Baldur's Gate, it will disappoint you. I think it is younger gamers who complain about Morrowind, and maybe rightfully so. They aren't used to this kind of game anymore. The older ones, like me, grew up with games that left a lot to your imagination and to your creativity.

Let me give you an example: people complain that vendors are up all night. That's true. For my part, I have decided not to buy or sell anything between 10pm and 7 am. So this isn't an issue for me anymore. I just don't enter shops during these times. If I would play a thief, this would be a different matter, but I do not .

An other example: some people complain that the crypts look pretty much the same. Yes. They do. But still I enjoy entering them, hoping for some nice loot and being full of fear when something creeps up on me. And I enjoy even the slightest variation in design and loot. Why? Because I accept that mostr crypts are built the same way. Elves build it that way, I think.

A lot of the fascination of Morrowind comes out of the books you find. Some contain subtle hints for places to visit, some provide cultural background, some are outright funny. I never pass by a book without reading it.

Try to see it this way: Morrowind allows you so much more than other games. Use your creativity. Play a collector of Drwaven artefacts. Play a lunatic barbarian. Play someone who HATES silt striders. Yes, you cannot talk to the girlies that are table dancing, and rain falls through parasols and roofs - but so what? Yes, if you have low personality and speechcraft, NPC's are stereotype, but why should that be worse or better than seeing someone pee at 10am every day in Gothic, or someone fixing something on his hut for 12 hours every single day?

If you don't like the game, don't play it. If you don't like it and want to change things, use the editor. There is an excellent mod, for example, bringing very detailed dialogue to Seyda Neen, or some giving you houses, changing the behaviour of wild life or whatever. You can customize Morrowind as much as you want. Or just don't play it.

Morrowind isn't perfect. For me, it's pretty close giving my knowledge what can be done on today's computers. Your mileage may vary, but then again: there are bigger problems
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Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:41 pm
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Llama
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth
   

quote:
Perhaps part of the problem is that I played Gothic before MW, and was spoiled by the beautiful/realistic environments, exciting combat, and feelings of involvement in the camps and the story.


I think that may be my problem as well, since Gothic was far more realistic I just expected that something as hyped up as Morrowind would be equal to the quality in Gothic.
Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:21 pm
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Orcan High Command




Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space
   

Rendelius, please take no offence but I must take certain exception with what you are saying. First - I am 52 years old and thus have played most CRPGs from the very beginning (yes I was THERE when the first Zork, Wizardry I and Ultima I came out).

Please allow me to paraphrase the substance of what you have said. You are essentially saying that this game has technical problems and basic faults and yet it is a great game. That is tantamount to saying you have a car whose brakes don't work very well, stearing is faulty but you like it and feel it is a well designed car.

The game has technical problems (no, I don't want to discuss them) - it shouldn't. Anyone who tries the excuse that "well, it is hard to get everything right" is allowing themselves to excuse away poor design and that is an unacceptably bad viewpoint to take. If the designers cannot produce a technically complete product, they should NOT put it on the market - whether it is a game, a car, a pair of shoes or whatever. There is NO excuse for poor quality. If we allow this, it will simply continue.

You have said that you make up for the shortcomings by playing a certain way (for instance not going into vendors shops at night when they really wouldn't be there anyway). Again, you do a disservice to us all by allowing the designer to get away with less than state of the art programming. The proper attitude is that you (nor any of us) should have to do this sort of makeshift gameplay to cover up unacceptable programming. I am happy that you CAN do this and still enjoy the game - but none of us should have to do this sort of thing - it is NOT difficult to have vendors close up at night.

Extremely repititious artwork (you mention crypts all look alike and you are correct) is also unacceptable - please don't make excuses for the designer. The ONLY reason they did this is because they knew we would buy the game anyway and banked that most would not return the game and so took the cheap, easy way out. Again, please don't excuse this.
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Post Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:56 pm
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