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Larinson
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 19
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is it just me, or are all areas of RPGs getting bigger and better, except for one of the most important aspects of RPGs, that being NPC interaction? For a game to grab you and pull you into it it is necessary for the NPCs to be as believable and as individual as possible. But, the basic way in which an NPC responds to you hasn't changed for years. Morrowind was a brilliant game, but the interaction with the NPCs was awful. I agree that with the number of NPCs in the game it was difficult to get them all to be individual, but even some of the main characters seemed lifeless and there was no sense of conversation at all.
Game designers should think about how it would be possible to make the player care more for some of the characters in the game. I feel that Baldurs Gate 2 did this well, there are some characters you like and some that just get on your nerves. But at the end of the day these relationships also were based on questions and answers. Having said that, it is one of the fews games to dabble in the question of romance. Apart from Fallout 2s 'romance', I can't really think of others. There is never the feeling in games that you are really FRIENDS with anyone, even your travelling companions.
I accept that it is difficult to advance this area, but surely instead of the non-stop advance for better graphics, attention should be turned to increasing the level of NPC interactivity. |
Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:31 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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I don't know... there were many interactions between your party members in games like Planescape: Torment and the Baldur's Gate series. Arcanum also had good NPC interactions.
But I agree about Morrowind, which had one of the most horrible conversation thingies I've seen yet. I loved when mineworkers in Morrowind asked you for rumors from the outside world, and if you pressed 'rumors' they simply talked about the Nerevarine or whatever.
However, there was actually ONE romance you could get in Morrowind. It was pretty hard to find, though. I think there was a romance in Arcanum as well.
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:55 pm |
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Larinson
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 19
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I have to say I didn't come across any romance in Morrowind. Though it would be very difficult to do EVERYTHING in Morrowind. I haven't played Arcanum - maybe i'll have to look them up. I do hear what you say about party interactions in Baldurs Gate and Planescape, and I have to admit I found them very entertaining, but what I'm saying that steps should be made to make it even better. When you see what they can do with graphics these days, and then see that NPCs have not come along much in the past few years it does make you think they should improve it. It might just be me, but I much prefer a deep game world and good NPC interaction than a combat based RPG. |
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Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:25 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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In Morrowind, if you want the romance, go to Pelagiad, to the Half Way Inn (or whatever it's called). There is a female khajit there you can talk to... 
One game that struk me, that has some of the best party interactions you can expect, is an old game known as 'Betrayal At Krondor'. There's some great party/NPC interactions there, even better than BG or Planescape... but the gameplay is utterly horrible and so are the graphics. I guess it proves that what you say is true, not much has been done in terms of NPC interactions...
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:01 pm |
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Larinson
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 19
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I remember Betrayal at Krondor, it was done by Sierra wasn't it? I think they released it free on the net a couple of years ago - back then it was a hefty size of 10mb - spent hours downloading it .
It would be nice to see some work done on that area. I'm sure it would pay off if a company could produce a package that allowed for much better interaction. Let's hope someone is listening/reading |
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Sat Jun 28, 2003 10:04 pm |
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Shmaugus
High Emperor
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 493
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whoever said something about romace in arcanum, i dont think that whore houses should count in that catagorey as for fallout2 that is what i think should count as romance in a video game, hell pratically all the women in the bishop family want on the main character |
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Sun Jun 29, 2003 5:07 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Betrayal at Krondor was developed by Dynamix, then a subsidiary of Sierra. I would rather say the gameplay was excellent. Combat and story were brilliant, the riddle-locked chests were of course a matter of taste.
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Sun Jun 29, 2003 5:24 am |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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Well, about gameplay, I've never liked beeing a party and at the same time playing through FPS. Feels too wierd.
As for combat, I've never liked TB, SPECIALLY not in small "arenas". It feels like dumbed down fighting, making everything easier. Besides why did you heal faster when resting in combat than while sleeping? Completely moronic.
Worst thing was probably watching your enemies run around in the woods as you approached them, if they were in your way, you were completely unable to avoid confrontation (those amulets that were supposed to help you didn't work either).
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:28 am |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
That Khajiit romantic interest in Morrowind was for male characters only. If you happened to play as a female character - your bad. But oh well, I don't like the looks of the Morrowind Khajiiti, anyway (I want the DF ohmes back!), so it was not a real loss. At leats that#s what I keep telling myself.
As for NPC interaction in general: Jagged Alliance 2 had a nifty NPC interaction system (not talking about interaction between player and ambient or quest-related NPCs - inter-party NPC interaction, likes and dislikes, that was really nice).
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Jaz |
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Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:47 am |
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Dwango
Head Merchant
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 68
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| Planescape Torment: Downfall of NPC Interactivity |
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I hate to write it, but it probably was Planescape Torment's fault in the erosion of NPC interactivity.
PT really did a great job of making the characters come alive. Each NPC had reams of dialogue and could fill you with intricate stories of their lives and how they relate to the PC. I loved learning about Annah, Morte, Nordrom, Fall-from-Grace, etc. Their stories, and that of the nameless one, kept me going through the game, just to learn a little more.
But, the reams of text turned out to intimidate many players. I guess a large number of gamer prefer the endless battles to learning about character and story. I think Planescape Torment sold the worse of any Interplay Infinity Engine game. And at a time when Interplay was at its height, a industry influence.
IP made sure in later games that text was cut down significantly. Choices were kept down to 2 or 3 in dialogue and there was less to learn about each character. Other game companies took this lesson to heart, story and interactivity take a back seat to action and adventure.
So its sad, but the failure of such a great game has probably contributed more to the decline of interactivity than any other game. Of course, you can also blame Diablo for its success . I just hope that some group of game makers can create the same sense of interactivity without alienating the average gamer. That would make all games the better for it.
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Ha, Ha, Ha.... Oh, you were SERIOUS?
-Dwango |
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Sun Jun 29, 2003 5:52 pm |
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piln
High Emperor
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
PS:T had so much text in it that at times it seemed more like an interactive novel than a game. That's fine by me (in fact I loved it), but I can understand why some gamers find it offputting. (hey, anyone who really liked the storytelling techniques in PS:T should check out interactive fiction by writers like Adam Cadre and Andrew Plotkin - and yes, that's the same "interactive fiction" that used to be called "text adventures," but it's come a long way ).
[possible spoilers]
Personally, I agree with Dwango, I found the NPC interactions in PS:T absolutely fascinating. Highlights that stick in my mind are the whole philosophy sequence with Dakkon (sp?), the experience with Ravel via sensory orb, and all of Nameless's revelations about his past lives. It was a really intelligently-made game with some of the most inventive storytelling techniques I've witnessed in any medium, let alone games. I also agree that intelligent games with incredible storytelling are not what the masses want (actually, I don't believe that, but publishers' marketing departments do, and that's the problem!), so that kind of game will be limited to rarities like PS:T for the forseeable future. Hopefully Half Life 2 will push things forward a bit for the action genre (perhaps for all games) with its fanastic and relevant advances in facial modelling & animation, but I'm guessing that it will mimic Half Life, PS:T, System Shock, etc. in that its lessons will be totally ignored by the rest of the industry for a ridiculously long time.
Hate to end on a negative note, but I gotta get packed & move house!  |
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Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:00 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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I don't know about the PS:T thing though...
Didn't IP had a part in releasing BALDUR'S GATE 2? A game about as good as PS:T in text/NPC/Party interactions?
I also didn't care much for the story of PS:T... the bad guy was badly implemented. The SETTING is what caught my eye.
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:41 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
Two prominent board members recommended the Baldur's Gate series when I talked to them, so I bought and installed both, started the first... and didn't like it. Boring battles combined with average dialogue and the run-of-the-mill generic fantasy setting (playing made me remember how little I had cared for the Forgotten Realms setting when I had been playing p'n'p AD&D) made me stop playing rather soon. I hoped to like BG2 better, but it was not to my liking, either. Planescape Torment, on the other hand, had an interesting setting (I always liked Planescape, the hub for all other AD&D settings) as well as interesting, non-standard NPCs, and not half as many of those battles.
My favorite isometric 'NPC-interaction-game' still is JA2 (but I already said htat, didn't I?)
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Jaz |
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Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:36 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
I'm amazed that not one person in this thread has mentioned Gothic 1&2!! Not since the old Ultimas has there been such variety in NPC interaction and creativity. MUD sticks to mind!!  I think the time required to do this is the sticking point. Time is limited and mass appeal comes first in most cases. Pity though. I think RG/LB would really enjoy the Gothic series.
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If God said it, then that settles it!
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Tue Jul 01, 2003 1:38 am |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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I've never enjoyed the dialogues of Gothic... they are short, give you as few dialogue options as possible and are mostly the same (you can't change the dialogues with your intelligence or a speech skill, only your class). More over, I just don't like them. PERHAPS it is the translation? PERHAPS it is the smell? if there is such a thing...
And, Jaz, is the run-of-the-mill-setting what made Gothic 1/2 and DD such good games? The elder scrolls series? Don't h8 the setting, h8 the game, man.
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Tue Jul 01, 2003 8:10 am |
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